November 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] DrGeo release 10.12

by laurent laffont

I've just watched the screencasts, it's a very cool 'real world' application. Thanks Hilaire for sharing this. Laurent On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Hilaire Fernandes < hilaire.fernandes(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Ready to use: > http://community.ofset.org/index.php/DrGeo > > Updated video demonstration at: > http://community.ofset.org/index.php/Screencast_DrGeo > > > Change log for the curious: > http://community.ofset.org/index.php/DrGeoChangeLog > > Hilaire > > -- > Education 0.2 -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire > > >

Nov. 20, 2010

[Pharo-project] SmallInteger as Methods [WAS] Re: Ideas for CompiledMethod proxies?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>wrote: > > > On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck < > marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >>>> Thanks Levente. I like this idea. I've been doing proxies for classes, >>>> normal objects, etc and I never thought about using SmallIntegers. This >>>> is >>>> because I usually need to do a #become: between the original object >>>> and >>>> the proxy. But in this case this is not needed, since I just need a >>>> methodDict at: put: . And this is a good idea because I don't need an >>>> object header per proxy instance. >>>> >>>> I will try to implement this. Thank you very much for all the answers. >>>> >>> >>> I did a quick implementation and it works. The only problem is that you >>> can't swap-out a method that's used by the swap-in code. >>> >>> >> It doesn't work here. It seems I cannot use SmallInteger like methods. The >> #run:with:in: is never call and the image crashes. >> > > That's simply a bug and we should fix it. What crashes, the Interpreter, > Cog or both? Prepare a reproducible test case (image, change set etc) and > we can try and fix this. > > To reproduce just file in the attached cs. Then evaluate the following: TestCase methodDict at: #assert: put: 4. TestCase new assert: 'zaraza'. If works, you should have a debugger in SmallInteger >> #run:with:in: otherwise, a crash. I've tested in mac vms like: Squeak 4.2.5beta1U Squeak 5.8b4 and it crash. In Squeak 64-32 5.7b1 it just hangs forever (I guess at some point it will crash). And in Cog it works perfect! The problem is that I am using my own VM and I cannot use COG. So, if Cog has fixed this, I would like to know the changes so that to apply it to my VM. Maybe it is already fixed in latest VMMaker, but I couldn't compile it....(other story) Thanks for any help. Mariano > best > Eliot > > >> >> Example (be carefull, it may crash your image): >> >> TestCase methodDict at: #assert: put: 4. >> TestCase new assert: 'zaraza'. >> >> I am checking the VM side now to see if I find something. >> >> Cheers >> >> Mariano >> >> >> >>> >>> Levente >>> >>> >>>> Mariano >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Levente >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Mariano >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >

Nov. 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo beginner bugs ....

by Tony Fleig

I am pleased to see the explanation of OCompletion. I had noticed that it seemed to become smarter as I continued to work :). I too wished at times to use the mouse to select a completion, but after realizing it never seemed to work, I adapted and I find myself using the keyboard now without really thinking about it. That said, I think it is normal, especially for a newcomer, to expect that mouse selection should work wherever in the system a pop-up menu appears. This sort of feature (or lack of feature) does not make Pharo any easier for newcomers. TF On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> wrote: > On Thu, 18 Nov 2010, Guido Stepken wrote: > > Beginners Bugs in Pharo 1.1 on Linux: >> >> In System Browser i choose Tools-Base->Workspace->initization->initialize >> >> and see code >> >> os := (Smalltalk platformName) >> >> hmmm. >> >> I open Shout Workspace, type Smalltalk pl ... and i get 'platformFamily' >> suggested. No 'platformName' offered by Shout completion mode. >> > > By default OCompletion only knows about methods in Kernel* and Collection* > packages. SmalltalkImage is in System*. You can add extra packages by > evaluating [OCompletionTable initializeWithPackages]. You could even write * > as the filter, but it's very slow in Pharo 1.1 and OCompletion will lose > most entries, because it only caches 40 methods per two letter prefix. I'm > thinking about increasing that, because it's sometimes really annoying. > > > >> And: I cannot choose from other offers in suggestion list by clicking with >> mouse. Why? >> > > When you're typing you rarely use the mouse. The arrows are more > conventional. If you need that feature, then open an issue on the Pharo > tracker. > > > >> Linux Problem? >> >> Next example: In Shout Workspace i enter: TTSampleFontMorph new >> openInWorld. <ALT-P> >> >> I get an error and a ghostframe, that i cannot delete. And: Completion >> mode >> > > You could use the halos to delete it, but they are disabled in Pharo by > default. > > > when i enter TTSample ... does not work. Fuck! >> > > TTSamlpe* is in Morphic* (see above why that matters). > > > >> What are you guys thinking of your work on Pharo, e.g. quality testing? >> >> Did you never notice, that even the basics of completion mode in Shout >> Browser are buggy? >> > > Shout doesn't do code completion. If you're talking about the Alt-Q (Cmd-Q) > completion, then it's really bugged in Pharo. > If you think that you've found a bug in OCompletion, then open an issue in > the Pharo issue tracker. > > > >> Then i open in World Menu: Tools->Filebrowser i get Error:Invalid utf8 >> input detected >> >> We need a perfectly running Pharo on Linux/Wine (Ubuntu 9.10). And no, no >> MAC here anywhere in schools in germany. >> >> Can you imagine, that a teacher and his pupils drive mad on such simple >> bugs? >> >> So i have to teach with SCRATCH or BYOB in class. No serious bugs, no >> problems. >> > > Are those bad? > > > Levente > > >> regards, Guido Stepken >> >> >> >

Nov. 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Ideas for CompiledMethod proxies?

by Eliot Miranda

On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >>> Thanks Levente. I like this idea. I've been doing proxies for classes, >>> normal objects, etc and I never thought about using SmallIntegers. This >>> is >>> because I usually need to do a #become: between the original object and >>> the proxy. But in this case this is not needed, since I just need a >>> methodDict at: put: . And this is a good idea because I don't need an >>> object header per proxy instance. >>> >>> I will try to implement this. Thank you very much for all the answers. >>> >> >> I did a quick implementation and it works. The only problem is that you >> can't swap-out a method that's used by the swap-in code. >> >> > It doesn't work here. It seems I cannot use SmallInteger like methods. The > #run:with:in: is never call and the image crashes. > That's simply a bug and we should fix it. What crashes, the Interpreter, Cog or both? Prepare a reproducible test case (image, change set etc) and we can try and fix this. best Eliot > > Example (be carefull, it may crash your image): > > TestCase methodDict at: #assert: put: 4. > TestCase new assert: 'zaraza'. > > I am checking the VM side now to see if I find something. > > Cheers > > Mariano > > > >> >> Levente >> >> >>> Mariano >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Levente >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> Mariano >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >

Nov. 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Ideas for CompiledMethod proxies?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

> >> Thanks Levente. I like this idea. I've been doing proxies for classes, >> normal objects, etc and I never thought about using SmallIntegers. This is >> because I usually need to do a #become: between the original object and >> the proxy. But in this case this is not needed, since I just need a >> methodDict at: put: . And this is a good idea because I don't need an >> object header per proxy instance. >> >> I will try to implement this. Thank you very much for all the answers. >> > > I did a quick implementation and it works. The only problem is that you > can't swap-out a method that's used by the swap-in code. > > It doesn't work here. It seems I cannot use SmallInteger like methods. The #run:with:in: is never call and the image crashes. Example (be carefull, it may crash your image): TestCase methodDict at: #assert: put: 4. TestCase new assert: 'zaraza'. I am checking the VM side now to see if I find something. Cheers Mariano > > Levente > > >> Mariano >> >> >> >>> >>> Levente >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Mariano >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >

Nov. 20, 2010

[Pharo-project] [ANN] DrGeo release 10.12

by Hilaire Fernandes

Ready to use: http://community.ofset.org/index.php/DrGeo Updated video demonstration at: http://community.ofset.org/index.php/Screencast_DrGeo Change log for the curious: http://community.ofset.org/index.php/DrGeoChangeLog Hilaire -- Education 0.2 -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire

Nov. 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Ideas for CompiledMethod proxies?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> wrote: > On Sat, 20 Nov 2010, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> wrote: >> >> On Fri, 19 Nov 2010, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>> >>> In a 15MB image all CompiledMethods use only ~3MB, so this technique >>> won't >>> save much space IMHO. >>> >>> >>> mmmmm I thought it was muuuch more. How are you measuring those 3mb ? >> Only >> the compiled method bytearray or also the literals? Because if you take >> into >> account all the ByteSymbol instances of literals for example, the size can >> be more. >> > > That's just the methods themselves. I did some more experiments and I think > the savings can peak at ~5MB for the 15MB image. Now it sounds better :) More similar to my calculations....arround 1/3 part of the image. > > > >> >> >> To minimize the space usage, use SmallIntegers as proxies. To avoid the >>> (Object >> #hash) literals >>> >> >> >> #literals was an example, but the same happens with all the methods >> implemented in CompiledMethod. >> > > I also used #literals as an example. :) excellent > > > >> >> problem swap back the real method in MethodDictionary >> #at:ifAbsent:. >>> >>> >> Yes, actually Luc had this idea too. I should also modify (or implement) >> #at: and friends >> What I was afraid is if the VM directly access to them and I cannot >> interpret them. Is this possible? I think the vm access them but only >> when >> executing them....where in such case, it will end up with a #run:with:in, >> which is perfect for me. >> > > Normally the send ends up in #run:with:in:. > > Excellent. No problems then. > > >> >> A SmallInteger has 31 bits which can easily identify the file index and >> >>> position where the swapped out method is. For example you can use 7 bits >>> for >>> index and 24 bits for position. That allows you to have 128 files which >>> can >>> hold 16MB data each. >>> Or you can store a single method in a file, this way the SmallInteger >>> identifies the file. >>> >>> >> Yes, exactly :) >> >> Thanks Levente. I like this idea. I've been doing proxies for classes, >> normal objects, etc and I never thought about using SmallIntegers. This is >> because I usually need to do a #become: between the original object and >> the proxy. But in this case this is not needed, since I just need a >> methodDict at: put: . And this is a good idea because I don't need an >> object header per proxy instance. >> >> I will try to implement this. Thank you very much for all the answers. >> > > I did a quick implementation and it works. I am implementing right now :) > The only problem is that you can't swap-out a method that's used by the > swap-in code. > > Yes, but that's easy to solve. Before swapping everything, I "simulate" the swapping of a dummy CompiledMethod. During that, I mark all the CompiledMethods that were used to perform that. And then, I exclude those objects from being swapped :) > > Levente > > >> Mariano >> >> >> >>> >>> Levente >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Mariano >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >

Nov. 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Ideas for CompiledMethod proxies?

by Levente Uzonyi

On Sat, 20 Nov 2010, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> wrote: > >> On Fri, 19 Nov 2010, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >> >> In a 15MB image all CompiledMethods use only ~3MB, so this technique won't >> save much space IMHO. >> >> > mmmmm I thought it was muuuch more. How are you measuring those 3mb ? Only > the compiled method bytearray or also the literals? Because if you take into > account all the ByteSymbol instances of literals for example, the size can > be more. That's just the methods themselves. I did some more experiments and I think the savings can peak at ~5MB for the 15MB image. > > > >> To minimize the space usage, use SmallIntegers as proxies. To avoid the >> (Object >> #hash) literals > > > #literals was an example, but the same happens with all the methods > implemented in CompiledMethod. I also used #literals as an example. :) > > >> problem swap back the real method in MethodDictionary >> #at:ifAbsent:. >> > > Yes, actually Luc had this idea too. I should also modify (or implement) > #at: and friends > What I was afraid is if the VM directly access to them and I cannot > interpret them. Is this possible? I think the vm access them but only when > executing them....where in such case, it will end up with a #run:with:in, > which is perfect for me. Normally the send ends up in #run:with:in:. > > > A SmallInteger has 31 bits which can easily identify the file index and >> position where the swapped out method is. For example you can use 7 bits for >> index and 24 bits for position. That allows you to have 128 files which can >> hold 16MB data each. >> Or you can store a single method in a file, this way the SmallInteger >> identifies the file. >> > > Yes, exactly :) > > Thanks Levente. I like this idea. I've been doing proxies for classes, > normal objects, etc and I never thought about using SmallIntegers. This is > because I usually need to do a #become: between the original object and > the proxy. But in this case this is not needed, since I just need a > methodDict at: put: . And this is a good idea because I don't need an > object header per proxy instance. > > I will try to implement this. Thank you very much for all the answers. I did a quick implementation and it works. The only problem is that you can't swap-out a method that's used by the swap-in code. Levente > > Mariano > > >> >> >> Levente >> >> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Mariano >>> >>> >> >

Nov. 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Not happy with the issues feed from Google

by laurent laffont

On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 11:49 AM, George Herolyants < george.herolyants(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Ok. > > +1 to this list. > -1 to the special "bug tracker" list. > Same here. +1 to this list -1 to the bug tracker list. Laurent > > George > >

Nov. 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Ideas for CompiledMethod proxies?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> wrote: > On Fri, 19 Nov 2010, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > In a 15MB image all CompiledMethods use only ~3MB, so this technique won't > save much space IMHO. > > mmmmm I thought it was muuuch more. How are you measuring those 3mb ? Only the compiled method bytearray or also the literals? Because if you take into account all the ByteSymbol instances of literals for example, the size can be more. > To minimize the space usage, use SmallIntegers as proxies. To avoid the > (Object >> #hash) literals #literals was an example, but the same happens with all the methods implemented in CompiledMethod. > problem swap back the real method in MethodDictionary >> #at:ifAbsent:. > Yes, actually Luc had this idea too. I should also modify (or implement) #at: and friends What I was afraid is if the VM directly access to them and I cannot interpret them. Is this possible? I think the vm access them but only when executing them....where in such case, it will end up with a #run:with:in, which is perfect for me. A SmallInteger has 31 bits which can easily identify the file index and > position where the swapped out method is. For example you can use 7 bits for > index and 24 bits for position. That allows you to have 128 files which can > hold 16MB data each. > Or you can store a single method in a file, this way the SmallInteger > identifies the file. > Yes, exactly :) Thanks Levente. I like this idea. I've been doing proxies for classes, normal objects, etc and I never thought about using SmallIntegers. This is because I usually need to do a #become: between the original object and the proxy. But in this case this is not needed, since I just need a methodDict at: put: . And this is a good idea because I don't need an object header per proxy instance. I will try to implement this. Thank you very much for all the answers. Mariano > > > Levente > > >> Thanks >> >> Mariano >> >> >

Nov. 20, 2010