November 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] SqueakSource is down

by David T. Lewis

Can someone please wake it up? Thanks.

Nov. 28, 2010

[Pharo-project] ExternalWebBrowser

by Torsten Bergmann

Yes, check ConfigurationOfExternalWebBrowser, see also [1] Bye Torsten [1] http://forum.world.st/ConfigurationOfExternalWebBrowser-working-in-Squeak-a… -- GRATIS! Movie-FLAT mit Ã¼ber 300 Videos. Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome

Nov. 28, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Shrinking image much more slow in Windows than MACOSX

by Olivier Auverlot

Le 28/11/2010 14:24, nullPointer a Ã©crit : > I added the Shrink image tool on CLFramework, like a option in World menu. > > A example of use is showed in Youtube -> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tonZdxOOJ10 > > Regards very useful. It would be nice if this tool is included in the standard distribution of Pharo.

Nov. 28, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo integration in enterprise feedback

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

Yes. this makes another side of the equation: for 95% of clients technology is not pertinent while it does become impediment to the achievement of some part of the project. But, IIRC the idea was to gather info to convince people who have to or want to select some technology. -- Cesar Rabak Em 27/11/2010 13:24, GermÃ¡n Arduino < garduino(a)gmail.com > escreveu: Hi: My own experience as a small software company is that most of my customers don't ask for a specific technology, only are searching some sort of business solutions ( but almost the 95% of my customers are small companies also, without internal developers or with no more than 2 or 3). In this context, selling business solutions more than talk about the technology behind, I have no problems in introduce Pharo/Squeak/Dolphin applications. Cheers. 2010/11/27 Tudor Girba : > Hi, > > I recently introduced Pharo in a small-medium software company (parametrix.ch). They use it for Moose (moosetechnology.org) to analyze their systems written in various languages and to introduce an assessment approach in their day to day development process (humane-assessment.com) A number of them are now learning to program in Pharo and Moose. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On 26 Nov 2010, at 22:07, laurent laffont wrote: > >> Indeed I don't want a "how to integrate Pharo into enterprise", I want a "actually I have introduce Pharo in my enterprise and why; what works and what doesn't". >> >> Laurent. >> >> On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 6:37 PM, wrote: >> Em 26/11/2010 07:03, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com > escreveu: >> >> > On Â Thu, Â Nov Â 25, Â Â 2010 Â at Â 10:40 Â PM, Â laurent Â laffont >> > > wrote: Hi, I'm looking for feedback on >> > > Â Pharo integration in enterprise. Â Especially how you have managed >> > > Â to put Â Pharo in your Â enterprise. Â For example, I'm Â involved in >> > > Â web application development in other >> > > languages. Â For functional Â testing Â I'm able Â to script Â Selenium >> > > using Pharo thanks Â to WebTester. Â So Pharo has Â made a small step >> > > at my work. >> > >> > >> > Â Just Â show Â them Â the Â diff Â in Â time/money Â for Â the Â same >> > development. (BTW, I don't have experience on that heheheh). >> >> Mariano, trust me, I have twenty years of experience on this, and have to >> tell you: language or more generally the technology has a very small >> impact in the result you're after to show as 'proof' of supremacy for >> Pharo in the enterprise. . . >> >> Processes, the skill level of the developers, the efficacy of management >> are much more important. >> >> I will stay away of more hard discussions which would involve the statistical >> validation of the findings before one can trump any result as gun smoke. >> >> Regards, >> >> -- >> Cesar Rabak >> >> >> >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair, > you will end up with a messy haircut." > > >

Nov. 28, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo integration in enterprise feedback

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

Tudor, This kind of report shows that Moose is a useful piece of software. The interest in Pharo became contingent on the Moose technology such as ABAP is 'widespread' in the industry because of SAP ERP. I think it says a lot about Moose, but is not enough to be a sales argument for Pharo. This leads to a common fallacy used in marketing: use "X" as all successful people use "X" as well..." -- Cesar Rabak Em 27/11/2010 07:23, Tudor Girba < tudor.girba(a)gmail.com > escreveu: Hi, I recently introduced Pharo in a small-medium software company (parametrix.ch). They use it for Moose (moosetechnology.org) to analyze their systems written in various languages and to introduce an assessment approach in their day to day development process (humane-assessment.com) A number of them are now learning to program in Pharo and Moose. Cheers, Doru On 26 Nov 2010, at 22:07, laurent laffont wrote: > Indeed I don't want a "how to integrate Pharo into enterprise", I want a "actually I have introduce Pharo in my enterprise and why; what works and what doesn't". > > Laurent. >

Nov. 28, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] <script language="smalltalk">

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

Em 26/11/2010 16:25, Janko MivÅ¡ek < janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si > escreveu: > On 26. 11. 2010 18:20, csrabak(a)bol.com.br wrote: > Em 24/11/2010 > 11:50, Jan van de Sandt < jvdsandt(a)gmail.com > escreveu: > > >> A Smalltalk variant would use Smalltalk as the source language > >> instead of Java, the other parts of GWT can be reused. GWT is > >> open source (Apache 2.0 license). > > > I think we have first to evaluate to what audience/market are > > thinking of targeting this effort, then estimate the effort, in > > order to see if its worth it. > Specially we the web guys are very interested of such a beast, > because we need to develop more in more on the client side and in > JavaScript, which is a bit hard, because of our Smalltalk habits, > you know :) I _do_. However, it is also a major trend "in this vital industry"Â¹ the increase in restrictions on the client side leading a lot of developers to switch from Javascript (client side computing) to PHP (server side computing), for an example of a popular site which ostensibly writes it in its home page, look at: http://www.quantitativeskills.com/sisa/Â² "Security" reasons plus less acquaintance with a newer technology would make this entry in the market very hard in today's environments. Perhaps what's _really_ needed is a good Javascript debugger? > Even more, Smalltalk on the client (Clamato way) can also solve one > of the main JavaScript problems: debugging on the client side. If we > can have near the same debugger on the client as we have in our > IDE's, well, this would be a huge step forward. For a very small community of Smalltalk developers, yes. What I rose earlier and maintain for discussion is if we have critical mass to reap the rewards of such an effort: we may end in some sort of the Armstrong's words backwards: "It was a huge step forward for Smalltalkers but a non movement forward at all for the majority of web developers." > > > If the attempt is a reinterpretation a Smalltalk base development > > environment would make a difference in the ecosystem we must check > > if we aren't flared by our preference of languages versus > > operational pragmatics. > > If the idea is to have such environment to the present (and sadly > > minute) community of Smalltalk developers, probably the effort > > would attend to a very small clientÃ¨le and the returns will be > > elusive and the project will end orphan. So, rephrasing my point above: except if we can produce those artifacts as a simple consequences of subclassing some objects in our environments and having a robust enough usable system, we rather consider carefully the use of our efforts in other areas where the fruits are hanging lower. -- Cesar Rabak [1] To whom may be missing: it is a pun with a phrase of one of the woodpecker shows where a line guard says these words when Woody installs himself in one of the telegraph poles.... :-D [2] Their arguments about mobile devices are also IMNSHO compelling.

Nov. 28, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Shrinking image much more slow in Windows than MACOSX

by Tudor Girba

Very nice indeed. Doru On 28 Nov 2010, at 18:23, Noury Bouraqadi wrote: > Great job! > On 28 nov. 2010, at 14:24, nullPointer wrote: > >> >> I added the Shrink image tool on CLFramework, like a option in World menu. >> >> A example of use is showed in Youtube - > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tonZdxOOJ10 >> >> Regards >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Shrinking-image-much-more-slow-in-Windows-than-MACOSX… >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Don't give to get. Just give."

Nov. 28, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Shrinking image much more slow in Windows than MACOSX

by Noury Bouraqadi

Great job! On 28 nov. 2010, at 14:24, nullPointer wrote: > > I added the Shrink image tool on CLFramework, like a option in World menu. > > A example of use is showed in Youtube - > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tonZdxOOJ10 > > Regards > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Shrinking-image-much-more-slow-in-Windows-than-MACOSX… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Nov. 28, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Cannot assign a parameter

by Andres Valloud

Wouldn't debugging be harder if arguments could be assigned to? Where would you keep the original argument? If you did that, wouldn't it be more costly to run methods? On 11/28/10 6:36 , Adrian Lienhard wrote: > Its an artificial restriction. Method arguments are just like temps, i.e., the interpreter does not distinguish between the two; its only the compiler that restricts assignments to arguments (I'm not 100% sure, but I assume that this still holds with Eliot's new closure compiler). > > I think it would be nice to be able to assign to arguments. In some cases they make for concise and better readable code (I got used to this for instance in Python and JavaScript). For example, consider a method that uses an argument in multiple places and you figure that you need to handle the case in which the argument is nil. You just add a line like: arg := arg ifNil: [ 0 ]. Without argument assignment you would need to create a temp var with a different name and change all usage of the old arg variable. > > Block args had been writable until the new closure compiler was introduced, which by default disallows arg assignments. I don't remember what the rationale for this change was (?). > > On the flip side, one has to consider code portability. For projects like Seaside this probably is a no go. But for projects that don't need to be ported I think it would be a worthwhile change. Projects that need to avoid portability troubles with other dialects should use Lint rules (stuff like this is better checked by Lint than the compiler...). > > I'll also note that this topic was discussed before and some people argued that argument assignments can lead to bad code quality... > > Cheers, > Adrian > > On Nov 28, 2010, at 11:41 , Max Leske wrote: > >> +1 >> >> >> On 28.11.2010, at 11:26, laurent laffont wrote: >> >>> I would like to know whether it's a design choice or a technical obstacle. >>> >>> I've seen: >>> >>> Parser>>assignment: varNode >>> " var ':=' expression => AssignmentNode." >>> | loc start | >>> (loc := varNode assignmentCheck: encoder at: prevMark + requestorOffset)>= 0 >>> ifTrue: [^self notify: 'Cannot store into' at: loc]. >>> ..... >>> >>> >>> TempVariableNode>>assignmentCheck: encoder at: location >>> ^((self isBlockArg and: [Parser allowBlockArgumentAssignment not]) >>> or: [self isMethodArg]) "<-- not allowed !" >>> ifTrue: [location] >>> ifFalse: [-1] >>> >>> But no explanation :( >>> >>> >>> Laurent >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Max Leske<maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Yeah, that's true, I've noticed that too. I guess it's on purpose but I have no idea. AFAIK you can't assign a new value to a parameter anywhere in the method not only when using blocks. Maybe it's not possible because there is not really a 'variable' but only a reference. So assigning a new value to the parameter would effectively override the reference. But don't trust me on this.... >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Max >>> >>> >>> On 28.11.2010, at 10:54, laurent laffont wrote: >>> >>>> Sorry >>>> >>>> foo: n >>>> ^[:i| n := n+i. ] >>>> >>>> vs >>>> >>>> foo: n >>>> |s| >>>> s := n. >>>> ^[:i| s := s+i. ] >>>> >>>> >>>> Laurent >>>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Max Leske<maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> In the first example you didn't declare 's': >>>> >>>> foo:n >>>> ^ [ :i || s | s:= s+i ] >>>> >>>> Or did I misunderstand the question? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Max >>>> >>>> >>>> On 28.11.2010, at 10:30, laurent laffont wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I can't write >>>>> >>>>> foo: n >>>>> ^[:i| s := s+i. ] >>>>> >>>>> but >>>>> >>>>> foo: n >>>>> |s| >>>>> s := n. >>>>> ^[:i| s := s+i. ] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Why ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Laurent Laffont >>>>> >>>>> Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ >>>>> Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > > . >

Nov. 28, 2010

[Pharo-project] New home for xmlrpc project

by GermÃ¡n Arduino

Hi: I set up a new home for track the progress of the project xmlrpc support for Pharo/Squeak: http://code.google.com/p/pharo-xmlrpc/ In the latest version I implemented the <struct></struct> support. Testers are welcome! Cheers. -- ================================================= GermÃ¡n S. ArduinoÂ <gsa @ arsol.net>Â Â Twitter: garduino Arduino Software & Web HostingÂ Â http://www.arduinosoftware.com PasswordsProÂ http://www.passwordspro.com =================================================

Nov. 28, 2010