November 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Introspection on saved image file

by Pavel Krivanek

Hi, you need to run the image to get its ImageMap or ImageGraph. However in times of Squeak 3.6 there was a tool named ImageBrowser (http://www.is.titech.ac.jp/~ohshima/squeak/sm/ImageBrowser3.6.1.cs.gz) You can browse specified classes from the image file using this tool. Unfortunately it works only for Squeak 3.6. I tried it now and it really works but it is obsolete. I'm not sure how hard it would be to update it for current image format. -- Pavel On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:18 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > pavel sent a graphiz image. > > > On Nov 4, 2010, at 11:02 PM, YossiDM wrote: > >> >> Thanks, I'll try to dig that up - sounds like a good starting point. I am >> definitely looking to do the second option you mentioned which is to mirror >> the image so I can just use standard tools. Our app is mainly from seaside, >> so that would be the ideal way for me, though I can imagine us doing some >> things inside the image in morphic as well. I could batch out analysis as a >> job of some kind, but I would rather have real-time analysis. >> >> >> Eliot Miranda-2 wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> very recently someone posted a link to a complete visualization of an >>> image >>> to pdf, I think on the squeak list. Â So yes, there are tools to do this. >>> You can also load an image using the VMMaker and analyse it in that. Of >>> course a really nice ay would be a mirror interface to the image so one >>> could use standard tools to inspect it, but that's real work. >>> >>> HTH >>> Eliot >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> -- >>>> View this message in context: >>>> http://forum.world.st/Introspection-on-saved-image-file-tp3027736p3027736.h… >>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Introspection-on-saved-image-file-tp3027736p3027872.h… >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> > > >

Nov. 4, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Introspection on saved image file

by YossiDM

StÃ©phane, Yes, we are definitely going to use Moose at some point and I have spent some time with it, but it is lower on our list of priorities. Not because there is anything bad about Moose, but rather we are trying to be pragmatic about our development scope. Moose is really extensive which is a good thing, but our original goal has already gotten far too ambitious in that we were doing introspection for learning, but now it's developing into a huge project on its own. I'll go into this later. The other piece is that we're looking to do a lot from a web interface and I know the models are applicable from Moose, but I am not so sure about all the visualizations (perhaps the models to generate the visualizations for sure). We are also looking at Glamour in conjunction with all of this. I think it will help to explain what we're doing and why and then maybe you can make recommendations based on your experiences. I'll start a new thread so as not to go off on a huge tangent. Thanks. StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > Yossi did you try Moose? > Because moose is a softare analysis platform to build browser and > dashboards :) > We are working on making sure that Moose built on pharo can analyse pharo > itself. This is working > but we want to make sure that we can running Moose 4.1 in pharo 1.2 > analysing pharo 1.3 unstable. > -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Introspection-on-saved-image-file-tp3027736p3027943.h… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Nov. 4, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Getting my head around low space [closed]

by Max Leske

Hey folks As was to be expected, my memory problem resulted from a problem in my code. So, just wanted to say thanks for the help and sorry for the hubbub. What might be of interest: I use the CogVM now for the task and I'm really excited how fast it is! I started the same calculations first in the normal VM (4.2.5) and about 5 minutes later in the CogVM. After 30 minutes or so, the CogVM had overtaken the 4.2.5 VM (judging by the progress bar at least). Cheers, Max On 11.10.2010, at 09:33, Max Leske wrote: > "There is not enough memory to give squeak the amount specified by the 'memory EMBED tag.". Additionally there's a "Premature end of file" error on the image and then the VM crashes (OS X crash dialog). Issuing the same commands with 1 GB memory works fine (no problems with the image). > > Interestingly I tried to run the task with 3.5 GB in a 5.7b1 VM over night and the low space warning popped up when the progress bar was have as far then when I ran into the same condition using the 4.2.5b1U VM and 1 GB... Any suggestions? I couldn't attach the VM statistics because of the lacking menu integration but if you tell me how to extract the statistics (supposing they are interesting...) I'll happily rerun the task and post the results. > > Max > > > On 10.10.2010, at 23:47, John M McIntosh wrote: > >> >> On 2010-10-10, at 2:00 PM, Max Leske wrote: >> >>> I had a first failure with 1 GB. I used the 4.2.5b1U VM. Setting the memory to anything above 1 GB would lead to an error message. I'm now trying the 5.7b1 VM with 3.5 GB. >>> >>> Max >> >> So what is the error message? >> >> >> -- >> =========================================================================== >> John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 >> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com >> =========================================================================== >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Nov. 4, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Introspection on saved image file

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Yossi did you try Moose? Because moose is a softare analysis platform to build browser and dashboards :) We are working on making sure that Moose built on pharo can analyse pharo itself. This is working but we want to make sure that we can running Moose 4.1 in pharo 1.2 analysing pharo 1.3 unstable. Stef On Nov 4, 2010, at 11:02 PM, YossiDM wrote: > > Thanks, I'll try to dig that up - sounds like a good starting point. I am > definitely looking to do the second option you mentioned which is to mirror > the image so I can just use standard tools. Our app is mainly from seaside, > so that would be the ideal way for me, though I can imagine us doing some > things inside the image in morphic as well. I could batch out analysis as a > job of some kind, but I would rather have real-time analysis. > > > Eliot Miranda-2 wrote: >> >> >> >> very recently someone posted a link to a complete visualization of an >> image >> to pdf, I think on the squeak list. So yes, there are tools to do this. >> You can also load an image using the VMMaker and analyse it in that. Of >> course a really nice ay would be a mirror interface to the image so one >> could use standard tools to inspect it, but that's real work. >> >> HTH >> Eliot >> >> >>> >>> Thanks. >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >>> http://forum.world.st/Introspection-on-saved-image-file-tp3027736p3027736.h… >>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >>> >> >> > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Introspection-on-saved-image-file-tp3027736p3027872.h… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Nov. 4, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo and Astronomy?

by Luc Fabresse

Hi Alex, I am also very interested in interoperability with Python to be able to script Blender (http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Robotics:Contents) from Pharo. However, Blender is only scriptable in Python. So, if you have something, please let me know. Thanks, #Luc 2010/11/4 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu> > Hi! > > I am looking for any experience in using Pharo to develop software for > Astronomy. Especially regarding interoperability with Python, using > Mathematical libraries (www.nr.com, www.gnu.org/software/gsl, > matplotlib.sourceforge.net/gallery.html) > > Cheers, > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > >

Nov. 4, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Introspection on saved image file

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

pavel sent a graphiz image. On Nov 4, 2010, at 11:02 PM, YossiDM wrote: > > Thanks, I'll try to dig that up - sounds like a good starting point. I am > definitely looking to do the second option you mentioned which is to mirror > the image so I can just use standard tools. Our app is mainly from seaside, > so that would be the ideal way for me, though I can imagine us doing some > things inside the image in morphic as well. I could batch out analysis as a > job of some kind, but I would rather have real-time analysis. > > > Eliot Miranda-2 wrote: >> >> >> >> very recently someone posted a link to a complete visualization of an >> image >> to pdf, I think on the squeak list. So yes, there are tools to do this. >> You can also load an image using the VMMaker and analyse it in that. Of >> course a really nice ay would be a mirror interface to the image so one >> could use standard tools to inspect it, but that's real work. >> >> HTH >> Eliot >> >> >>> >>> Thanks. >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >>> http://forum.world.st/Introspection-on-saved-image-file-tp3027736p3027736.h… >>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >>> >> >> > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Introspection-on-saved-image-file-tp3027736p3027872.h… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Nov. 4, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Introspection on saved image file

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

nick is starting to work on cross compilation toolset and remote debugger in the context of robots but I imagine that his work should let us access remote images. Having an API would be good to be able to query the system and get some information Now orthogonally what we will start to work on and people can help is the following: - we want an object-oriented structural and semantics model of the source code to be versioned in some ways (probably a gemstone db but it could be something else) - we want to have all the code of Squeak and Pharo in that infrastructure so that we can query everything we like. - Other applications should be able to use the same infrastructure for their project. On Nov 4, 2010, at 10:17 PM, YossiDM wrote: > > Thanks. I suspected as much. Any plans to implement anything like this? > > We are currently using the .changes file, but we will perhaps instead take a > custom snap shot of the data into a specific data structure and persist it > before we turn off the image. As you can imagine, getting this information > is useful in all kinds of project management and build tools. I'd rather get > it dynamically of course. Imagine in Hudson for instance if you could take a > look at what was inside the image without downloading it. Maybe not useful > to everyone, but in our context it certainly would be, especially for > dashboards and metrics on code. We're also doing this with mcz files, but > sometimes we want the last state of the image which may not have included > proper packaging on some of the code. we want to run moose on mcz packages :) > > I'll be sure to share any of the tools we create, but it's still awhile off > since there's a lot of work we need to do. > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Introspection-on-saved-image-file-tp3027736p3027806.h… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Nov. 4, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Introspection on saved image file

by YossiDM

Thanks, I'll try to dig that up - sounds like a good starting point. I am definitely looking to do the second option you mentioned which is to mirror the image so I can just use standard tools. Our app is mainly from seaside, so that would be the ideal way for me, though I can imagine us doing some things inside the image in morphic as well. I could batch out analysis as a job of some kind, but I would rather have real-time analysis. Eliot Miranda-2 wrote: > > > > very recently someone posted a link to a complete visualization of an > image > to pdf, I think on the squeak list. So yes, there are tools to do this. > You can also load an image using the VMMaker and analyse it in that. Of > course a really nice ay would be a mirror interface to the image so one > could use standard tools to inspect it, but that's real work. > > HTH > Eliot > > >> >> Thanks. >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/Introspection-on-saved-image-file-tp3027736p3027736.h… >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> > > -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Introspection-on-saved-image-file-tp3027736p3027872.h… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Nov. 4, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Introspection on saved image file

by YossiDM

Thanks. I suspected as much. Any plans to implement anything like this? We are currently using the .changes file, but we will perhaps instead take a custom snap shot of the data into a specific data structure and persist it before we turn off the image. As you can imagine, getting this information is useful in all kinds of project management and build tools. I'd rather get it dynamically of course. Imagine in Hudson for instance if you could take a look at what was inside the image without downloading it. Maybe not useful to everyone, but in our context it certainly would be, especially for dashboards and metrics on code. We're also doing this with mcz files, but sometimes we want the last state of the image which may not have included proper packaging on some of the code. I'll be sure to share any of the tools we create, but it's still awhile off since there's a lot of work we need to do. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Introspection-on-saved-image-file-tp3027736p3027806.h… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Nov. 4, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Introspection on saved image file

by Eliot Miranda

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 1:38 PM, YossiDM <smalltalk(a)fixinsbar.com> wrote: > > Is there a simple way that I can do some introspection on an image file > without loading it as the current image for the VM? Specifically, I want to > query the classes, methods, packages, etc loaded into the image for > documentation purposes, for example from a previous version of an image > saved as a snapshot. > > Is there a way I can do this with built-in functionality? It's easy on the > running image, but I don't want to actually load a new VM with an image to > check its contents. Would it be possible to use AST or anything like that > worst case? > very recently someone posted a link to a complete visualization of an image to pdf, I think on the squeak list. So yes, there are tools to do this. You can also load an image using the VMMaker and analyse it in that. Of course a really nice ay would be a mirror interface to the image so one could use standard tools to inspect it, but that's real work. HTH Eliot > > Thanks. > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Introspection-on-saved-image-file-tp3027736p3027736.h… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Nov. 4, 2010