October 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] Xtreams was Re: Unit Tests on Pharo 1.1.1

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Nicolas, On 11 Oct 2010, at 22:35, Nicolas Cellier wrote: > Yes, that was expected. > > With latest versions, the Base64 encoding/decoding now pass. > Beware, I moved everything to http://www.squeaksource.com/Xtreams.html > > Cheers > > Nicolas > > 2010/10/11 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be>: >> Nicolas, >> >> Here is the unit test report I promised: OK, thanks, I moved to the new SS project. I commited some changes: replacing on: XTIncomplete do: #count with on: XTIncomplete do: [:exception | exception count] as suggested by Martin Kobetic Now, this works: ((1 to: 10) reading collecting: [:x | x * x]) rest and I think more tests succeed, but I am not sure since I forgot how many failed before. Sven

Oct. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] MicroSqueak Was: Re: [update 1.2] #12188

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>> > > Ah, good to know. I will be very happy to someday take a 50k input, and > a script.st file containing a ConfigurationOfXXX load sentence and get a > fully featured custom image. > Keep the good job. I hope :) and ideally I would like to have binary loading instead of having the compiler loaded first :) but it takes time.

Oct. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Exception handling and cull: [ Xtreams port to Squeak - second wave ]

by Nicolas Cellier

2010/10/11 <mkobetic(a)gmail.com>: > "Sven Van Caekenberghe"<sven(a)beta9.be> wrote: >> I tried to follow your different releases in Pharo 1.1.1, right now I have 433 tests, 3 failures (#testReadWriteLargeAmount), 11 errors (#..base64 and #..multipleBufferSize). If will send you the report. >> >> I have been trying some of the examples from the doc pages (google code project), this simple one still fails: >> >> ((1 to: 10) reading collecting: [:x | x * x]) rest > > Ah, that's because of the use of #cull: like semantics with exception handlers in some places, mostly > > Â Â Â Â ... on: Incomplete do: #count. > > We can certainly replace all those with regular block style. > I see, #handleSignal: just calls valueWithPossibleArgument: instead of #cull... I don't well see the interest of adding arguments to #on:do: handler, since they would all be filled with nils... IMO, this is because we didn't have #cull: previously, so we used an existsing more powerfull version. To me, it should be self to just send #cull: Nicolas

Oct. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] MicroSqueak Was: Re: [update 1.2] #12188

by Miguel CobÃ¡

El lun, 11-10-2010 a las 22:56 +0200, StÃ©phane Ducasse escribiÃ³: > > Now that John Maloney has released MicroSqueak as MIT > > (http://web.media.mit.edu/~jmaloney/microsqueak/) shouldn't be worth to > > analize it and see if that can be used as an alternative to build the > > Pharo Kernel. > > Yes we already started. Now I think that producing microsqueak for pharo should just be the easy part. > Because after you want to be able to load package and not a large mess. > > So this is why we did the two in parallel since august > - trying to recompile a kernel (for example as specified by pharo kernel) and fixing all the packages > problems we could find. So we build > - tools to analyse the system > - read a GNU ST based bootstrap > - read chacharas (we did not read spoon because we could not find it) > > - We were thinking that in parallel we would use an approach like chacharas (dynamic creation of a kernel based on an expression definitively cool). gabriel started to have a look at to build a micro kernel. So now that we have one we will check it. > > > I know that Pavel (and now also Nicolas) have done a lot of work in > > getting PharoCore stripped to a minimal kernel. > > But as I understand, PharoKernel idea is to part from a core image, > > reorganize packages, _unload_ what isn't needed and then shrink the > > image to get a kernel image. > > Not necessarily. It was just starting somewhere. > > > The approach of John Maloney's MicroSqueak is the inverse, parting from > > a source code representation and from there to aggregate code until have > > a full image. > > I think that this is the way to go. But there is a middle man missing. > > > Of course the image from John hasn't all the improvements that Squeak > > and Pharo have made to the core classes and that will mean a lot of > > effort to reapply in order to get a modern image. > > It should not be that difficult. > The core image does not have to have everything. It can be simple and part of it can be overload/overridden. > Now the process to go from seed (microsqueak pharo name) to pharo kernel is really important because > we will find all kinds of dead skeleton in the drawers :) > > > But I wonder, and not meaning to discourage any possibility, if isn't > > worth to discuss the technical effort required and the pros/cons of each > > approach and if isn't possible a reutilization of knowledge for this > > very wanted goal of Pharo. > > We already did that :) > And we will continue to learn and build. Ah, good to know. I will be very happy to someday take a 50k input, and a script.st file containing a ConfigurationOfXXX load sentence and get a fully featured custom image. Keep the good job. Cheers > > Stef > > > > Cheers > > > > -- > > Miguel CobÃ¡ > > http://miguel.leugim.com.mx > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Miguel CobÃ¡ http://miguel.leugim.com.mx

Oct. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] how to get the diff on commit on the pharo source?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> It is not the mailing list that is the problem, it is the >> squeaksource.com server that is. It takes several minutes to calculate >> a simple diff of a single version and that just kills responsiveness >> at the current rate of commits. > > That seems to be a really high number. I just compared a version of the > CollectionTests package in Squeak 4.2 with a Pharo version. The two are totally different, there are 2002 changes. Parsing both packages and creating the diffs takes less than a second with Cog. So it's probably less than 3 seconds with the standard VM. And this is an edge case. > this is true that squeaksource is central and we should get it faster not slower. :-/ Stef

Oct. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] how to get the diff on commit on the pharo source?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Ok I see INRIA told us that they will allocate some time of their busy engineer for the web-dav server. Once we have that we could host any pharo/squeak projects. Now we will not have squeaksource.... :( But for pharo we need a scriptable interface because we are losing time moving package around. Stef > On 11 October 2010 17:49, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> I would really like to have the same behavior than the squeak system ie having the source modification >> send to the list. I could not see how to set it up on squeaksource. >> May be this is not the same version running. > > It is disabled because of the excessive processing power that this > requires. And the server is already at the limit. Ok this is sad because I would like that people can see published code. > > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [SPAM] Experimental Cocoa OS-X based Squeak Cog JIT VM 5.8b12

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Thanks, John, (a) now works again for me. I commented on the Pharo issue (I don't think I can close it myself). On my Mac, all Smalltalk related icons are now gone, maybe they'll come back after logout or reboot (which I almost never do). Sven On 11 Oct 2010, at 07:01, John M McIntosh wrote: > I've stuck a version (5.8b12) of the cocoa based os-x squeak cog JIT based VM in my experimental folder. > > http://homepage.mac.com/johnmci/.Public/experimental/Squeak%205.8b12.app.zip > > This is based on the latest Cog VM source (oct 10/10/10). > > Changes to the support logic: > > (a) Supply file create/mod times & size based on target of symbolic link versus the link file node. > (b) Untrusted directory was set wrong, use same default value as 4.2.x VM ~/Library/Preferences/Squeak/Internet/My Squeak/ > (c) There is no -pathenc option > (d) Attempt to integrate changes into Cog branch to allow you to compile VM from the Cog branch. > *** This does not work yet, 90% there, Eliot and I still have some pencil sharping to do... *** > > Now the big news is that I pushed a version of the Squeak Cog stack VM to the Apple App Store! > > It's rough, but it's a candidate for review by Apple's special App review committee. It does not have socket support and we are seeing if they > allow us to move image/change files in and out of the Documents folder via a desktop machine. I should know more by next weekend. > > If accepted then I am looking to the Smalltalk community to help in building a viable image to allow people to edit source code on an iPad. > > > Lastly, yes something broken in open/gl on os-x 10.4 I hope to look at the issue this week. > > -- > =========================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com > =========================================================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] MicroSqueak Was: Re: [update 1.2] #12188

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> Now that John Maloney has released MicroSqueak as MIT > (http://web.media.mit.edu/~jmaloney/microsqueak/) shouldn't be worth to > analize it and see if that can be used as an alternative to build the > Pharo Kernel. Yes we already started. Now I think that producing microsqueak for pharo should just be the easy part. Because after you want to be able to load package and not a large mess. So this is why we did the two in parallel since august - trying to recompile a kernel (for example as specified by pharo kernel) and fixing all the packages problems we could find. So we build - tools to analyse the system - read a GNU ST based bootstrap - read chacharas (we did not read spoon because we could not find it) - We were thinking that in parallel we would use an approach like chacharas (dynamic creation of a kernel based on an expression definitively cool). gabriel started to have a look at to build a micro kernel. So now that we have one we will check it. > I know that Pavel (and now also Nicolas) have done a lot of work in > getting PharoCore stripped to a minimal kernel. > But as I understand, PharoKernel idea is to part from a core image, > reorganize packages, _unload_ what isn't needed and then shrink the > image to get a kernel image. Not necessarily. It was just starting somewhere. > The approach of John Maloney's MicroSqueak is the inverse, parting from > a source code representation and from there to aggregate code until have > a full image. I think that this is the way to go. But there is a middle man missing. > Of course the image from John hasn't all the improvements that Squeak > and Pharo have made to the core classes and that will mean a lot of > effort to reapply in order to get a modern image. It should not be that difficult. The core image does not have to have everything. It can be simple and part of it can be overload/overridden. Now the process to go from seed (microsqueak pharo name) to pharo kernel is really important because we will find all kinds of dead skeleton in the drawers :) > But I wonder, and not meaning to discourage any possibility, if isn't > worth to discuss the technical effort required and the pros/cons of each > approach and if isn't possible a reutilization of knowledge for this > very wanted goal of Pharo. We already did that :) And we will continue to learn and build. Stef > > Cheers > > -- > Miguel CobÃ¡ > http://miguel.leugim.com.mx > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Hallo Pharoers.. namespaces in the system level ?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Oct 11, 2010, at 6:02 PM, James Foster wrote: > > On Oct 11, 2010, at 8:07 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Hi guys >> >> there is a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference between >> (1) namespace at the language level and we do not want that the way german did it. > > StÃ©phane, > > Are you suggesting that the approach GermÃ¡n Leiva demonstrated at ESUG last month is "at the language level"? Could you elaborate? no time to elaborate sorry I have boring documents to write. Now this is at the language level because as a programmer I have to write it when I write my class. Look at point 2 items: you as a nice programmer do not care that your class is defined in bootstrap or normal. Stef > > James > >> Give us some times and we will try different solutions and see what come out >> (2) systemDictionary at the infrastructure level. >> We are working on that since Squeak Kernel Cleaning Project >> here we want the tools to be able to use another environment so that we can >> - bootstrap the compiler with itself >> - load different version of code (for Moose) to build report on Pharo 1.2 from pharo 1.1 >> - bootstrap the kernel >> - build atomic loading. >> We are working on 2 and this is what nick needs. >> I will not talk about namespace at the lnaguage level. No time for that. >> >> Stef >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Hallo Pharoers.. namespaces in the system level ?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Oct 11, 2010, at 5:53 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Nick, > > I'm certainly no expert on DST, but I will gladly help where I can. You're starting a PhD program? Is Stef your advisor? That would put you in good hands. noury luc and me :) Indeed nick you should ahve a look at VisualWorks Distributed Smalltalk. I remember now that in 3 min I could browse your browser from my machine wayback in 2002. Stef > > Bill > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Nick Papoylias [npapoylias(a)gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 11:43 AM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Hallo Pharoers.. namespaces in the system level ? > > I am currently concerned with remote programming (debugger, browser, compiler e.t.c) in Pharo from one image (or environment) to another, so that this infrastructure can be used in the field of autonomous robotics to ease the development cycle. > > So we should definitely exchange ideas ! Cause there surely is more than one way to go (plain sockets and API, rST, remote SystemDictionary and environment, to name a few..) > > We should keep in touch ! > > Nick > > On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 5:16 PM, Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com<mailto:serge.stinckwich@gmail.com>> wrote: > 2010/10/11 Nick Papoylias <npapoylias(a)gmail.com<mailto:npapoylias@gmail.com>>: >> Hallo to all, >> >> I am starting my Ph.D on 'languages and environments for autonomous >> robotics' -- and pharo will be a huge part of it. > > Hi Nick, > > Great to see that another guy will work in the domain of embedded > systems&autonomous robots with Smalltalk ! > > I already talked with Noury or Luc about that. This is really > important to share code as we are a small community, especially code > to interface with existing robotics systems like ROS, OROCOS or > Player/Stage. I will start soon to work on how to integrate Smalltalk > with ROS: http://www.ros.org/wiki/ > > Regards, > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://doesnotunderstand.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 11, 2010