January 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Parrot VM

by Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ Martinez

El mar, 19-01-2010 a las 22:02 -0800, Eliot Miranda escribiÃ³: > > > 2010/1/19 Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ Martinez <miguel.coba(a)gmail.com> > Parrot has just been released: > http://www.parrot.org/news/2010/Parrot-2.0.0 > > I would like to know, from the VM experts from the community, > if this VM > can be used to run Smalltalk. > The site says that > > "Parrot is a virtual machine aimed at running all dynamic > languages.". > > but I don't know anything about VM so this sounds to me a bit > like black > magic. > > Is there something in the squeak vm that is specific to the > way > smalltalk works or a generic virtual machine (maybe with a > upper layer > understanding Smalltalk specifics) can be used. > > > The four things that most distinguish Smalltalk VMs from most others > are the bytecode and primitives set, contexts, immediate objects and > the class hierarchy with each class having a method dictionary. > > > The method lookup mechanism that searches the class hierarchy has > traditionally been part of the VM but in a well-modularised VM one > could imagine adding it on as an extra (*1). > > > Immediate objects are of course SmallInteger (a.k.a. fixnums) and in > some implementations Character and SmallDouble. They're the > implementation encoding value objects within a pointer so that these > values can be synthesized without object allocation. To be a > Smalltalk these must be objects to whose classes you can add methods, > and pragmatically they need to be space and time efficient. You can > implement them as boxed objects but performance will be poor. You > can't implement them as e.g. Java integers without a lot of > difficulty; they need to be objects. A well-factored VM may well > allow one to implement some immediate types; I would be surprised if > Parrot didn't have support for fixnums. > > > Contexts are the most distinctive features of Smalltalk > implementations. Few languages have a reification of method/function > activation. I doubt very much that Parrot supports anything like > contexts. One can attempt to do without them, but then lots of the > exception system is in the VM and there are major restrictions > (Seaside's continuations must be implemented differently, the debugger > needs to be reimplemented, persisting processes is difficult, etc, > etc). All this is possible (VisualAge doesn't have contexts) but for > Squeak and VisualWorks eliminating contexts is a lot of work. > > > Finally the bytecode and primitive set, encapsulated in methods, are > pretty distinctive. These are the target of the compiler and known to > the image indirectly by the debugger, by the browsing functions > (senders scans methods bytecode, inst var refs scans bytecode, etc), > and so on. So if a VM specifies the bytecode set, rather than allows > one to specify one's own there is a lot of work involved in targeting > that VM. > > > In practice none of these four features is fixed. One wants to be > able to evolve the implementation. My closures implementation adds a > few bytecodes, a few primitives and changes how MethodContext works > (to support block activations; BlockContext is history). But these > are small changes from Squeak and, clearly, support existing Squeak > semantics with relatively little work. Targetting Parrot is likely to > require much more effort. > > > primitives are a can of worms. For example, does the VM allow one to > enumerate all instances of a class? This is great for doing instance > mutation when a class definition changes, but many VMs will disallow > this kind of thing on security grounds. You can always try and do > without but at what stage does it no longer remain Smalltalk? > Smalltalk is more than syntax. > > > And of course a different VM may be perfectly acceptable for certain > kinds of deployed applications. One may live with the restrictions > involved in compiling Smalltalk to JavaScript in return for browser > ubiquity. > > > So you've asked an interesting question that overs a large space of > implementation approaches and levels of effort. In my experience you > never know how hard or easy something really is until you try doing > it. > > > > > *1 and some VMs such as the Mushroom Smalltalk VM and Ian's Cola have > virtualized method lookup, so it doesn't have to be part of the core > and so is the least distinctive of the three features. > > Oh, in base of your explanation it is clear to me now that a generic VM for "every dynamic" language is it not something easy or possible to create. Thanks -- Miguel CobÃ¡ http://miguel.leugim.com.mx

Jan. 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Copy/paste not works

by Igor Stasenko

2010/1/20 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > Ok excellent > >>>>>> Everything works perfectly on #11151 > > then can you look at the Utilities there is a method that let you update upto a given number. > > Â Â Â Â updateFromServerThroughUpdateNumber: aNumber > > so far: > > 11152 > Â Â Â Â - Issue 1773: Â MorphTreeMorph MNU when using keyboard > Â Â Â Â - Issue 1775: Â aClass getSource vs aCompiledMethod definition'. > > 11153 > Â Â Â Â "self new update11153" > Â Â Â Â self withUpdateLog: 'Issue 268: TODO: CurvierMorph should be merged with PolygonMorph > Â Â Â Â Issue 1141: Â Â Monticello directory selection window is non-resizable and very small > Â Â Â Â Issue 1770: Â Â Kernel-Tests-ClassBuilder category is not remove after ClassBuilderFormatTests tests are run > Â Â Â Â Issue 1774: Â Â Monticello repository edit works but doesnt update UI > Â Â Â Â Issue 1780: Â Â StrikeFont issues with derived fonts > Â Â Â Â Issue 1782: Â Â Save Dialog too small'. > > > 11154" > Â Â Â Â self withUpdateLog: '- Â Issue 1788: Â Â SMTPClient does not send HELO or EHLO, session is not initiated > Â Â Â Â - Â Issue 1793: Â Remove SqueakClipBoard > Â Â Â Â - Â Issue 1764: Â remove isPvtSelector'. > > 11155" > Â Â Â Â self withUpdateLog: '- Â Issue 1805: Â Â Bitmap fonts need reinitialization > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â StrikeFont installDejaVu > Â Â Â Â - Merged CompilerTests.lr.17.mcz > Â Â Â Â merged Compiler-cwp.73.mcz from Colin > Â Â Â Â "The compiler now uses notifications to signal that a Â correctable Â Â error has been found in the method source, Â Â Â rather than > Â Â Â Â interacting directly with the user." > Â Â Â Â - Issue 332: Â Â Arithmetic protocol should be removed from Collections and Strings Â Â Â Â Â Â Â '. > > > 11156" > Â Â Â Â self withUpdateLog: '- Issue 1811: Â Â Â FreeType fix for better integration of Rome > Â Â Â Â Tx Mike :) > - Issue 1151: Â RFC2047MimeConverter>>#readWord is broken, and this may be part of a larger issue > Â Â Â Â tx Peter :) (it was not marked as fixed nor 1.1 so skipped our radar) > - Issue 1751: Â allPairsDo: aBinaryBlock self do: [:first| self do: [:second| aBinaryBlock value: first value: second]] > - Â Issue 1769: Â TestRunner author while running tests > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â so we will have popup menu problems and in such case should > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â fix the tests'. > > update11157" > Â Â Â Â self withUpdateLog: 'Issue 1491: Â Â Â Â ImageSegment has special code for Player'. > > 11158" > Â Â Â Â self withUpdateLog: '- Issue 478: Â Â Â [Pending Etoy Cleaning] Object>>defaultNameStemForInstances > - Issue 479: Â Â [Etoy Pending Cleaning] Object>> externalName > - Issue 491: Â Â [Pending Etoy Cleaning] Morph>>defaultFloatPrecisionFor > - Issue 490: Â Â [Pending Etoy Cleaning] Morph >> decimalPlacesForGetter:'. > > > 11158" > Â Â Â Â self withUpdateLog: '- Issue 478: Â Â Â [Pending Etoy Cleaning] Object>>defaultNameStemForInstances > Â Â Â Â - Issue 479: Â Â [Etoy Pending Cleaning] Object>> externalName > Â Â Â Â - Issue 491: Â Â [Pending Etoy Cleaning] Morph>>defaultFloatPrecisionFor > Â Â Â Â - Issue 490: Â Â [Pending Etoy Cleaning] Morph >> decimalPlacesForGetter:'. > > > 11160" > Â Â Â Â self withUpdateLog: '- Issue 1821: Â Â Â Remove again service -base'. > Â Â Â Â self script716. > Â Â Â Â ServiceUnloader unloadServicesBasePackage. > > > 11161" > Â Â Â Â self withUpdateLog: 'Issue 765: Menu must not be zero size > Â Â Â Â Issue 1793: Â Â Remove SqueakClipBoard > Â Â Â Â Issue 1790: Â Â basicShallowCopy should be removed > > may be the SqueakClipBoard? > Everything worked fine even in 11161, until i saved image and restarted it. So, the bug seems lurking inside a startup/shutdown code. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Jan. 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] A dog-slow browser

by Levente Uzonyi

On Wed, 20 Jan 2010, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> wrote: > >> Smalltalk garbageCollect >> > > hahahaha sorry. As you said "a full GC" I imagined that there was another There is: incremental gc. You can trigger it with Smalltalk garbageCollectMost. Levente > kind of GC (like gemstine) that I was not aware of :) > > >> >> On Jan 20, 2010, at 17:37 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> >> wrote: >>> >>>> just a wild guess: maybe its a GC edge case? >>>> >>>> When it happens, trigger a full GC and see if it is still slow... >>>> >>>> >>> how do you do that Adrian ? >>> >>> >>>> Adrian >>>> >>>> On Jan 20, 2010, at 17:26 , Gary Chambers wrote: >>>> >>>>> A good few months back I noticed similarly inexplicable slowness (that >> I >>>>> mistakenly ascribed to some changes...). Went away after image >>>>> save/restart... maybe that kind of thing has happened. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, Gary >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> >>>>> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 4:16 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] A dog-slow browser >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> 2010/1/20 Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com>: >>>>>>> Super quick here... (1.1 latest updates, admittedly a quad-core, only >>>> one >>>>>>> used though...) >>>>>> >>>>>> I have to take my words back. >>>>>> Strange, very strange.. its now magically started working quite fast.. >>>>>> As i said, first time i run it, it was flickering the hourglass mouse >>>>>> cursor each time i switching between methods in browser. >>>>>> What was it? And why it disappears? Any suggestions? >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, Gary >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Marcus Denker" <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> >>>>>>> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:47 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] A dog-slow browser >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2010, at 4:35 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2010/1/20 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2010, at 4:28 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Please, don't take it as a offense, but as a constructive critics >>>> :) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Pharo-core browser is awfully slooow! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Pharo core? Or Pharo dev? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> core >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It should not... it uses the fast fonts, no syntax highligting... >>>>>>>> In essense, it should be the same performance than Squeak 3.9. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is it slower than that? I can not see any problem (the curse of a >> fast >>>>>>>> machine?) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Marcus >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de >>>>>>>> INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >

Jan. 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] A dog-slow browser

by Levente Uzonyi

On Wed, 20 Jan 2010, Igor Stasenko wrote: > 2010/1/20 Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com>: >> A good few months back I noticed similarly inexplicable slowness (that I >> mistakenly ascribed to some changes...). Went away after image >> save/restart... maybe that kind of thing has happened. >> > > Well i just started a fresh image, didn't done anything yet with it, > just opened a browser.. > > But now, i tried to reproduce the same, by starting a very same image, > and its magically behaves much faster.. Open a browser, select Morph, don't select a category (-- all --), select the first method and press the down key. Levente > > >> Regards, Gary >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> >> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 4:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] A dog-slow browser >> >> >>> 2010/1/20 Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com>: >>>> Super quick here... (1.1 latest updates, admittedly a quad-core, only one >>>> used though...) >>> >>> I have to take my words back. >>> Strange, very strange.. its now magically started working quite fast.. >>> As i said, first time i run it, it was flickering the hourglass mouse >>> cursor each time i switching between methods in browser. >>> What was it? And why it disappears? Any suggestions? >>> >>>> >>>> Regards, Gary >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Marcus Denker" <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> >>>> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:47 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] A dog-slow browser >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 20, 2010, at 4:35 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> 2010/1/20 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2010, at 4:28 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please, don't take it as a offense, but as a constructive critics :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pharo-core browser is awfully slooow! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pharo core? Or Pharo dev? >>>>>>> >>>>>> core >>>>> >>>>> It should not... it uses the fast fonts, no syntax highligting... >>>>> In essense, it should be the same performance than Squeak 3.9. >>>>> >>>>> Is it slower than that? I can not see any problem (the curse of a fast >>>>> machine?) >>>>> >>>>> Marcus >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de >>>>> INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Jan. 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] A dog-slow browser

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> wrote: > Smalltalk garbageCollect > hahahaha sorry. As you said "a full GC" I imagined that there was another kind of GC (like gemstine) that I was not aware of :) > > On Jan 20, 2010, at 17:37 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> > wrote: > > > >> just a wild guess: maybe its a GC edge case? > >> > >> When it happens, trigger a full GC and see if it is still slow... > >> > >> > > how do you do that Adrian ? > > > > > >> Adrian > >> > >> On Jan 20, 2010, at 17:26 , Gary Chambers wrote: > >> > >>> A good few months back I noticed similarly inexplicable slowness (that > I > >>> mistakenly ascribed to some changes...). Went away after image > >>> save/restart... maybe that kind of thing has happened. > >>> > >>> Regards, Gary > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > >>> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 4:16 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] A dog-slow browser > >>> > >>> > >>>> 2010/1/20 Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com>: > >>>>> Super quick here... (1.1 latest updates, admittedly a quad-core, only > >> one > >>>>> used though...) > >>>> > >>>> I have to take my words back. > >>>> Strange, very strange.. its now magically started working quite fast.. > >>>> As i said, first time i run it, it was flickering the hourglass mouse > >>>> cursor each time i switching between methods in browser. > >>>> What was it? And why it disappears? Any suggestions? > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Regards, Gary > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: "Marcus Denker" <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > >>>>> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:47 PM > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] A dog-slow browser > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Jan 20, 2010, at 4:35 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> 2010/1/20 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2010, at 4:28 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Please, don't take it as a offense, but as a constructive critics > >> :) > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Pharo-core browser is awfully slooow! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Pharo core? Or Pharo dev? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> core > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It should not... it uses the fast fonts, no syntax highligting... > >>>>>> In essense, it should be the same performance than Squeak 3.9. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Is it slower than that? I can not see any problem (the curse of a > fast > >>>>>> machine?) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Marcus > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > >>>>>> INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Best regards, > >>>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pharo-project mailing list > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Jan. 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] O2: tester wanted!

by Mariano Martinez Peck

> > - code completion popups are not removed correctly, but I think that is not > specific > to O2 > Reproduce: > 1. type somewhere (code pane or search bar) to bring up completion > 2. then move the whole browser window > That is only one of the few cases where such a popup is not removed. > > you are a good tester :) I checked and it also happens with OB. Can you open a bug ticket please? If you identify other reproducible situations, please write them too Thanks! > Best > Stefan > > On 19 Jan 2010, at 23:11, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Alexandre Bergel < > alexandre.bergel(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Dear All, > > > > For people who do not know, O2 is the browser David has implemented in > > the last few years. It replaces class-categories on the left-hand side > > pane with a list of packages. We are still away from having packages > > as real first class entities, but this is a good step toward. Note > > that some people find O2 a bit slower than other available code > > browsers. > > > > David and I spent some time on fixing O2. O2 has now no dependencies > > to OB anymore. > > We would like that people try it and submit bug reports on the google > > bug tracker. In a fresh 10505, you can load O2 by evaluating: > > > > Gofer new squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; package: > > 'ConfigurationOfO2'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfO2) perform: > > #loadDefault > > > > > > Yes, but be aware that that piece of code load only the core, as you can > see here: > > > > group: 'default' with: #('Core' ); > > group: 'Core' with: #( 'OmniBrowser2' 'O2-Standard' > 'O2-Morphic' 'O2-Enhancements' ); > > group: 'Dev' with: #( 'Core' 'O2-Refactory' 'OCForO2' ); > > > > > > As I remember, most of the problems of O2 were sometimes related to the > integration to RB. So, if you really want to tests it, please, test it using > the RB: > > > > ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfO2) project version: '1.0') load: 'Dev' > > > > > > As I already said to Alexandre and David in private, I will put O2 again > in the next image. So, it would be cool if it is tested "completely". > > > > > > O2 does not need OB whatsoever. O2 loads in a Core (I tried in a > > 11165). Before and after loading O2, running OB tests give "548 run, > > 547 passes, 1 failures" [*]. > > > > > > Yes, if someone can help with that failure would be cool, I have already > reported it. > > > > > > Cheers, > > Alexandre > > > > [*] the test have been loaded using (ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser > > project version: '1.1') load: 'Dev Tests' > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > -- > Stefan Marr > Software Languages Lab > Vrije Universiteit Brussel > Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium > http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr <http://soft.vub.ac.be/%7Esmarr> > Phone: +32 2 629 3956 > Fax: +32 2 629 3525 > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Jan. 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] A dog-slow browser

by Adrian Lienhard

Smalltalk garbageCollect On Jan 20, 2010, at 17:37 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> wrote: > >> just a wild guess: maybe its a GC edge case? >> >> When it happens, trigger a full GC and see if it is still slow... >> >> > how do you do that Adrian ? > > >> Adrian >> >> On Jan 20, 2010, at 17:26 , Gary Chambers wrote: >> >>> A good few months back I noticed similarly inexplicable slowness (that I >>> mistakenly ascribed to some changes...). Went away after image >>> save/restart... maybe that kind of thing has happened. >>> >>> Regards, Gary >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> >>> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 4:16 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] A dog-slow browser >>> >>> >>>> 2010/1/20 Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com>: >>>>> Super quick here... (1.1 latest updates, admittedly a quad-core, only >> one >>>>> used though...) >>>> >>>> I have to take my words back. >>>> Strange, very strange.. its now magically started working quite fast.. >>>> As i said, first time i run it, it was flickering the hourglass mouse >>>> cursor each time i switching between methods in browser. >>>> What was it? And why it disappears? Any suggestions? >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards, Gary >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Marcus Denker" <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> >>>>> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:47 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] A dog-slow browser >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 20, 2010, at 4:35 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> 2010/1/20 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2010, at 4:28 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Please, don't take it as a offense, but as a constructive critics >> :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pharo-core browser is awfully slooow! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pharo core? Or Pharo dev? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> core >>>>>> >>>>>> It should not... it uses the fast fonts, no syntax highligting... >>>>>> In essense, it should be the same performance than Squeak 3.9. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is it slower than that? I can not see any problem (the curse of a fast >>>>>> machine?) >>>>>> >>>>>> Marcus >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de >>>>>> INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Best regards, >>>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Jan. 20, 2010

[Pharo-project] What we should do with the Dev image? Re: question about O2 vs OB

by Mariano Martinez Peck

> That's the reason of having OB and O2. While both now work together in the > same image > without inferring each other, this indeed increases the number of classes > in the image > quite a lot as they duplicate a whole bunch of code. So I strongly suggest > to either use > OB or O2, even though you can have both. But I do not see a reason why > people want to > switch between the two dynamically in the same image. > > We have two things to choose: which browser is default and which ones are installed. Both ? only one ? The solution I like most, is in these options: 1) Install both: OB and O2. Let OB as default. 2) Install only OB, of course, as default, and those who wants can install O2 in that dev image. They way to install O2 now is very easy. 3) Install only OB, of course, as default, but create a group in ConfigurationOfPharo like "StandardDevImageWithO2" so that those people who want a dev image with O2 can just evaluate that in a core image and wala! With 1 the image will be smaller but won't have O2 preinstalled. With 2) and 3) you will have also O2 but bigger image. I think I will coose 2) AND 3). Those who want to install O2 directly in a dev image, use the ConfigurationOfO2 and those who wants to create a dev image over the core, they use ConfigurationOfPharo with the new group I can create. What do you think ? Mariano

Jan. 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] O2: tester wanted!

by Stefan Marr

Hi: Browser loaded like follows: Gofer new squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; package: 'ConfigurationOfO2'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfO2) perform: #loadDefault. ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfO2) project version: '1.0') load: 'Dev' In general, it works stable for me. Have used it the whole afternoon. Some small points I've found: - selecting the 'all' protocol does not allow testing with cmd+t (and context menu) it reports that 0 tests have been executed - the icons should have a transparent background, does not look nice when an item is selected - code completion popups are not removed correctly, but I think that is not specific to O2 Reproduce: 1. type somewhere (code pane or search bar) to bring up completion 2. then move the whole browser window That is only one of the few cases where such a popup is not removed. Best Stefan On 19 Jan 2010, at 23:11, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Dear All, > > For people who do not know, O2 is the browser David has implemented in > the last few years. It replaces class-categories on the left-hand side > pane with a list of packages. We are still away from having packages > as real first class entities, but this is a good step toward. Note > that some people find O2 a bit slower than other available code > browsers. > > David and I spent some time on fixing O2. O2 has now no dependencies > to OB anymore. > We would like that people try it and submit bug reports on the google > bug tracker. In a fresh 10505, you can load O2 by evaluating: > > Gofer new squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; package: > 'ConfigurationOfO2'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfO2) perform: > #loadDefault > > > Yes, but be aware that that piece of code load only the core, as you can see here: > > group: 'default' with: #('Core' ); > group: 'Core' with: #( 'OmniBrowser2' 'O2-Standard' 'O2-Morphic' 'O2-Enhancements' ); > group: 'Dev' with: #( 'Core' 'O2-Refactory' 'OCForO2' ); > > > As I remember, most of the problems of O2 were sometimes related to the integration to RB. So, if you really want to tests it, please, test it using the RB: > > ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfO2) project version: '1.0') load: 'Dev' > > > As I already said to Alexandre and David in private, I will put O2 again in the next image. So, it would be cool if it is tested "completely". > > > O2 does not need OB whatsoever. O2 loads in a Core (I tried in a > 11165). Before and after loading O2, running OB tests give "548 run, > 547 passes, 1 failures" [*]. > > > Yes, if someone can help with that failure would be cool, I have already reported it. > > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > [*] the test have been loaded using (ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser > project version: '1.1') load: 'Dev Tests' > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Stefan Marr Software Languages Lab Vrije Universiteit Brussel Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr Phone: +32 2 629 3956 Fax: +32 2 629 3525

Jan. 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] A dog-slow browser

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> wrote: > just a wild guess: maybe its a GC edge case? > > When it happens, trigger a full GC and see if it is still slow... > > how do you do that Adrian ? > Adrian > > On Jan 20, 2010, at 17:26 , Gary Chambers wrote: > > > A good few months back I noticed similarly inexplicable slowness (that I > > mistakenly ascribed to some changes...). Went away after image > > save/restart... maybe that kind of thing has happened. > > > > Regards, Gary > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > > To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 4:16 PM > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] A dog-slow browser > > > > > >> 2010/1/20 Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com>: > >>> Super quick here... (1.1 latest updates, admittedly a quad-core, only > one > >>> used though...) > >> > >> I have to take my words back. > >> Strange, very strange.. its now magically started working quite fast.. > >> As i said, first time i run it, it was flickering the hourglass mouse > >> cursor each time i switching between methods in browser. > >> What was it? And why it disappears? Any suggestions? > >> > >>> > >>> Regards, Gary > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Marcus Denker" <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > >>> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:47 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] A dog-slow browser > >>> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> On Jan 20, 2010, at 4:35 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> 2010/1/20 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Jan 20, 2010, at 4:28 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Please, don't take it as a offense, but as a constructive critics > :) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Pharo-core browser is awfully slooow! > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> Pharo core? Or Pharo dev? > >>>>>> > >>>>> core > >>>> > >>>> It should not... it uses the fast fonts, no syntax highligting... > >>>> In essense, it should be the same performance than Squeak 3.9. > >>>> > >>>> Is it slower than that? I can not see any problem (the curse of a fast > >>>> machine?) > >>>> > >>>> Marcus > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > >>>> INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Best regards, > >> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pharo-project mailing list > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Jan. 20, 2010