January 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] RC2, Metacello and image building

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Thanks Torsten, this is really cool :) I would like everybody gets the same idea as you: the current Dev image is JUST a standard, little combination of possibilities. But we have the tools and we already did the work so that everybody can create it's own Dev image, with it's own flavour, without too much pain, an using a PharoCore image as a base. That's why I would like to remove from Core as much as possible. BTW, it didn't work on Mac OS :( The problem is that the class has references to SqueakMap, which has removed quite a long in Pharo. Look ExternalWebBrowserMacOS >> isApplescriptAvailable Sorry I am not sure how to fix it. I attach PharoDebug.log. Cheers Mariano On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 10:45 PM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > from pharo-dev to a custom (seaside) application image. > > Read > > > http://astares.blogspot.com/2010/01/pharo-10-release-candidate-2-and-image.… > > Bye > T. > -- > Nur noch bis 31.01.2010: DSL-Komplettpaket fÃ¼r 16,99 Euro/mtl.!* > http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02 > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Jan. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Gardening/ScriptManager

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Not so fast, all you have to do is sprinkle some .net dust on the computer and everything will be fixed until the next time MS changes their mind, right? Sorry, couldn't resist. Ironically, I find that software written to MS specs breaks readily; things written with anything up through contempt for them seems to work just fine. I stop short of seeing a vm as allowing one to run Windows in perpetuity, but that is another debate. I frequently want things both ways. I want the rest of the world to stand still (except when I want something fixed<g>) so I can get on with my work, and I generally expect that my code will evolve such that the most recent version is the best I know how to make. It is unlikely that I would be brave enough to run old versions of my code in the same image with new stuff, but if you can make that work to serve all of us, have at it :) Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Marcus Denker Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 4:49 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Gardening/ScriptManager On Jan 26, 2010, at 10:30 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Stef, > > Are you describing something that allows different versions to coexist > in one image? Unless that's the idea (and I'm not sure I'd want to do > that??) Yes! At least I want that... we once described it like this: Backward compatibility is the enemy of forward evolvability. Nevertheless, we cannot live in a world where the old is ignored. An often overlooked property of software is that new systems can simulate the old, and the recent trends in hardware virtualization have shown that simulation of the old is far easier than for the new to stay compatible. A snapshot of an old Windows machine can run on a virtual machine forever, whereas keeping an operating system compatible forever is bound to fail. Programming languages for evolving systems should provide backwards compatibility in the same way: we need a first class description of the history of all code of the system, freeing the present from being compatible with the past while at the same time providing the possibility to go back in time easily. The system should provide complete, runnable snapshots of itself at any point in the past. Our work on changeboxes forms one first step towards this goal.... Oscar Nierstrasz, Marcus Denker, Tudor GÃ®rba, Adrian Lienhard and David RÃ¶thlisberger: "Change-Enabled Software Systems," Challenges for Software-Intensive Systems and New Computing Paradigms, Martin Wirsing, Jean-Pierre BanÃ¢tre and Matthias HÃ¶lzl (Eds.), pp. 64-79, Springer-Verlag, 2008. http://scg.unibe.ch/archive/papers/Nier08bChangeEnabledSoftware.pdf The ChangeBoxes work is here: http://scg.unibe.ch/scgbib?query=Denk07c&display=abstract Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Jan. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Gardening/ScriptManager

by Marcus Denker

On Jan 26, 2010, at 10:30 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Stef, > > Are you describing something that allows different versions to coexist in one image? Unless that's the idea (and I'm not sure I'd want to do that??) Yes! At least I want that... we once described it like this: Backward compatibility is the enemy of forward evolvability. Nevertheless, we cannot live in a world where the old is ignored. An often overlooked property of software is that new systems can simulate the old, and the recent trends in hardware virtualization have shown that simulation of the old is far easier than for the new to stay compatible. A snapshot of an old Windows machine can run on a virtual machine forever, whereas keeping an operating system compatible forever is bound to fail. Programming languages for evolving systems should provide backwards compatibility in the same way: we need a first class description of the history of all code of the system, freeing the present from being compatible with the past while at the same time providing the possibility to go back in time easily. The system should provide complete, runnable snapshots of itself at any point in the past. Our work on changeboxes forms one first step towards this goal.... Oscar Nierstrasz, Marcus Denker, Tudor GÃ®rba, Adrian Lienhard and David RÃ¶thlisberger: âChange-Enabled Software Systems,â Challenges for Software-Intensive Systems and New Computing Paradigms, Martin Wirsing, Jean-Pierre BanÃ¢tre and Matthias HÃ¶lzl (Eds.), pp. 64-79, Springer-Verlag, 2008. http://scg.unibe.ch/archive/papers/Nier08bChangeEnabledSoftware.pdf The ChangeBoxes work is here: http://scg.unibe.ch/scgbib?query=Denk07c&display=abstract Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

Jan. 26, 2010

[Pharo-project] RC2, Metacello and image building

by Torsten Bergmann

from pharo-dev to a custom (seaside) application image. Read http://astares.blogspot.com/2010/01/pharo-10-release-candidate-2-and-image.… Bye T. -- Nur noch bis 31.01.2010: DSL-Komplettpaket fÃ¼r 16,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02

Jan. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Gardening/ScriptManager

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, Are you describing something that allows different versions to coexist in one image? Unless that's the idea (and I'm not sure I'd want to do that??), there seems to be a role for something that can browse what an external package would do to the image. I find MC to be surprisingly weak on support tools (help me package my code so I don't lose work, make it very easy to save many packages at one time, load a large number of packages with minimal effort), but otherwise, it does a pretty good job of showing me the code in a particular package. What am I missing? Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 3:28 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Gardening/ScriptManager Two questions: but what will be the point to have Ginsu? We have the smalltalk metamodel + MC + PseudoClass and do we want one more? I know well Ginsu I have it on my harddisc and read it when MC was not even created and I wrote FAMIX which is a Ginsu for JavaC++Smalltalk. For me I dream about the following: - having ONE code metamodel (ginsu or MC) that can be used to do version management = MC versioning but has the same static interface than the Smalltalk runtime so that he can be browsed using the SAME code browser. To be clearer: why do we need two code browsers or three (pseudoClass) just browsing badly class (not talking about packages) can we have one browser that uses a structural API (for static class structure navigation) and that we have two kinds of objects runtime class = having Structural Api + runtime API offclass (MCDefinition/Ginsu Definition) = having just a Structural Api this way we remove MC/Ginsu/pseudoClass => GinsuPLUS We remove crappy browsers PseudoCode MCDefinition crappy browsers => One browser to rule them all Class/SystemBrowser So may be I'm a bit blind so tell me the vision you have, because if you need I have one or more Stef On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:54 PM, John M McIntosh wrote: > Torsten, btw I did chat with Joseph a bit about helping here, so I'll > devote a few hours/days to see if we can get it off the ground again. > > On 2010-01-26, at 3:59 AM, Torsten Bergmann wrote: >>> Joseph, regarding Ginsu it would be nice to have an MIT release too >>> so others can have a look. Maybe someone can publish the last world tour image too. Thanks! >> Since I haven't worked on it for a while now, I'll have to see what >> the latest version I have looks like, and what I'd want to put out publicly. >> >> Cheers >> Joseph >> > > > > -- > =========================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. > http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com > ====================================================================== > ===== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Jan. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Gardening/ScriptManager

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

if somebody wants a version and joseph release it. I have it. I was always a big fan of SWT (squeak World Tour) miniimage, professional dev, clean code... does it ring the bell :) Stef On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:54 PM, John M McIntosh wrote: > Torsten, btw I did chat with Joseph a bit about helping here, so I'll devote a few hours/days to see > if we can get it off the ground again. > > On 2010-01-26, at 3:59 AM, Torsten Bergmann wrote: >>> Joseph, regarding Ginsu it would be nice to have an MIT release too so others >>> can have a look. Maybe someone can publish the last world tour image too. Thanks! >> Since I haven't worked on it for a while now, I'll have to see what the >> latest version I have looks like, and what I'd want to put out publicly. >> >> Cheers >> Joseph >> > > > > -- > =========================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com > =========================================================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Jan. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] new mac menu code :)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

mindsharing is a plus :) On Jan 26, 2010, at 9:13 PM, Michael Rueger wrote: > On 1/26/2010 12:26 AM, John M McIntosh wrote: > >> Now the problem then is triggered if someone calls >> InputSensor>>peekEvent with just the right timing to see the menu >> event on the queue. If that happens from Morph's desired to peek >> ahead to make decision on mouse movement or keyboard interaction, >> then the side effect of the peek is to generate a duplicate set of >> synthetic keystrokes. > > Good one! > > I would have never thought about that possibility... > > Thanks :-) > > Michael > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Jan. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Gardening/ScriptManager

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Two questions: but what will be the point to have Ginsu? We have the smalltalk metamodel + MC + PseudoClass and do we want one more? I know well Ginsu I have it on my harddisc and read it when MC was not even created and I wrote FAMIX which is a Ginsu for JavaC++Smalltalk. For me I dream about the following: - having ONE code metamodel (ginsu or MC) that can be used to do version management = MC versioning but has the same static interface than the Smalltalk runtime so that he can be browsed using the SAME code browser. To be clearer: why do we need two code browsers or three (pseudoClass) just browsing badly class (not talking about packages) can we have one browser that uses a structural API (for static class structure navigation) and that we have two kinds of objects runtime class = having Structural Api + runtime API offclass (MCDefinition/Ginsu Definition) = having just a Structural Api this way we remove MC/Ginsu/pseudoClass => GinsuPLUS We remove crappy browsers PseudoCode MCDefinition crappy browsers => One browser to rule them all Class/SystemBrowser So may be I'm a bit blind so tell me the vision you have, because if you need I have one or more Stef On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:54 PM, John M McIntosh wrote: > Torsten, btw I did chat with Joseph a bit about helping here, so I'll devote a few hours/days to see > if we can get it off the ground again. > > On 2010-01-26, at 3:59 AM, Torsten Bergmann wrote: >>> Joseph, regarding Ginsu it would be nice to have an MIT release too so others >>> can have a look. Maybe someone can publish the last world tour image too. Thanks! >> Since I haven't worked on it for a while now, I'll have to see what the >> latest version I have looks like, and what I'd want to put out publicly. >> >> Cheers >> Joseph >> > > > > -- > =========================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com > =========================================================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Jan. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] How can I change the size of the World ?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

may be look for initialExtent (now that this is not only in Object :) On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:27 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > Hi folks. Actually, I a not sure if what I want is to change the size of the World, but the size of the windows. The problem is this: the PharoCore images, when I open them, they have a little size by default. I always need to make them bigger. I have to do the same with the Dev images. So, I would like to do that from Smalltalk side and add it to my scripts to build dev images. > > Is this possible ? how ? I looked in Display and World, but I didn't find what I need. > > Cheers > > Mariano > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Jan. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] new mac menu code :)

by Michael Rueger

On 1/26/2010 12:26 AM, John M McIntosh wrote: > Now the problem then is triggered if someone calls > InputSensor>>peekEvent with just the right timing to see the menu > event on the queue. If that happens from Morph's desired to peek > ahead to make decision on mouse movement or keyboard interaction, > then the side effect of the peek is to generate a duplicate set of > synthetic keystrokes. Good one! I would have never thought about that possibility... Thanks :-) Michael

Jan. 26, 2010