January 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] akuhn/SUnit: run faster tests first & step through tests

by Adrian Kuhn

StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@...> writes: > in 11138 > I got > ifUnknownAuthorUse: DNU > [...] > As soon as you fix it I try to run all the test of 11138 I won't have time for any fix the next 10 days, deadline madness. For the moment best comment it out yourself. That method is anyway only used as a fall back if no user name is set. It is safe to use SUnit without. --AA

Jan. 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus

by Simon Denier

On 6 janv. 2010, at 18:42, Gary Chambers wrote: > Indeed. Would be nicer if there was a proper announcement protocol for such > things though. I see, updateTasks is called everytime a change in layout happens then. Indeed, it looks like announcements will greatly simplified the trick. I am not sure where to do the announcement though. Does any top window uses openInWorld to add itself to World? > > Regards, Gary > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Henrik Sperre Johansen" <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> > To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 4:55 PM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus > > >> On 06.01.2010 17:14, Simon Denier wrote: >>> On 6 janv. 2010, at 16:48, Gary Chambers wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Would be nice (if anyone needs it) to have a "global" access point (the >>>> World perhaps) for general notifcations as hinted at earlier. Kind of >>>> "window manager" notifications. >>>> >>> I think so. It would be useful in the long terms for window management. >>> >>> However, the current taskbar is able to detect and register any new >>> window. Gary, can you tell how it is done right now? >>> >>> >> TaskBarMorph >> ownerChanged, which is sent every time the World does >> layout. >> >> Cheers, >> Henry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Simon

Jan. 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [update] #10505

by Mariano Martinez Peck

I will try to create my first Dev image only with OB for the moment, using Metacello ConfiguartionOfPharo and make it public for beta testers. The idea is that maybe this new image will be the final release if no big issue is found. Cheers Mariano On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 10:29 PM, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 3 times great :-) > > 2010/1/6 Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch>: > > This update "fixes" the double paste bug by unloading the system host > > menu support. Please note, that the image needs to be restarted to > > take effect. > > > > 10505 > > ----- > > Issue 1323: Input problems (resolved for 1.0 by unloading System Host > > Menus) > > Issue 1604: The disabled buttons look ugly with the new strike fonts > > (thanks, Gary) > > Issue 1415: New version VBRegex (fix splitjoin) > > > > ___________________ > > http://www.adrian-lienhard.ch/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Jan. 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] About my recursive blues :)

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, Sorry you had a bad day, but I'm glad to see you curing yourself of it. Re things being done to Squeak "anyway, and after you were bashed for it," (which I remember BTW) please ask yourself what Squeak would look like right now had Pharo not taken shape. I submit that all the offending code would still be in place, Polymorph would have been ignored by the community, and Nile would be a river in Egypt. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:13 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Development Subject: [Pharo-project] About my recursive blues :) Hi guys Sometimes I'm not in good mood. Today I was in a bad bad mood. Quite bad even badder. I was wondering why I was doing all that and the rest. What was the use to do Pharo if we get Squeak doing exactly the same - Ok we were right long time ago but still seeing all the removal of crappy code we begged to be removed and got bashed for and also doing all that effort and seeing it redone was not helping. Being right sometimes is not even cool :) So a plain bad day.... cold and rainy. I was frustrated that I cannot be somebody else, doing stuff full time and no other duties and going faster. In short nothing was working and I was a frustation ball like I'm good at being. But my kids were there and we had to go swimming! After going swimming and not thinking then thinking and discussing with some remote friends and emails. (Thanks guys you know who you are) also thinking about other people's attention and remarks in other contexts, my good mood came back even stronger than before because I came up to the conclusion that my remote friends were right (BTW thanks pharoers some of you inspire me today during my bad mood - alain, henrik, danny, lukas...) So what is the conclusion of all that? - I have a cool job (one of the best research positions in europe - not easy everyday but cool and with people supporting me with my crazy idea....imagine coding in smalltalk building an international team doing smalltalkish stuff). - we can invest for 5 years or even 10. Close your eyes and imagine we can decide now what we want to do now for the next 10 years and do it because we decided that this is fun. Amazing. No clients, no venture guys telling us the truth of life. - To a friend to which I was saying that I'm not that smart, that guy told me that smart is not the only measure: you can measure your impact, the books you wrote, the energy that other people took and got inspired and all kind of other measures.... :) So I can tell you I was down but this is good because I could think about what I really want to do. And I want to have an innovative Smalltalk system that can be used to develop business and innovative. (for example I would like to see if the new event system can be used to save Genie - one of the coolest handwriting recognition system I see). So I will not be extra-smart but I will learn and I will do it bit by bit. And I want to make it fun and beautiful. May be we will be able to go faster (it depends mainly on you guys :)) but I want 10 years or 15 or even 20 years of fun with a cool system and it is there in my hand (at three keystrokes from my keuboard). We will build it. Stef (sorry for the one of you that have to listen my bad mood I'm curing myself). _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Jan. 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [update] #10505

by Lukas Renggli

3 times great :-) 2010/1/6 Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch>: > This update "fixes" the double paste bug by unloading the system host > menu support. Please note, that the image needs to be restarted to > take effect. > > 10505 > ----- > Issue 1323: Â Â Input problems (resolved for 1.0 by unloading System Host > Menus) > Issue 1604: Â Â The disabled buttons look ugly with the new strike fonts > (thanks, Gary) > Issue 1415: Â Â New version VBRegex (fix splitjoin) > > ___________________ > http://www.adrian-lienhard.ch/ > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Jan. 6, 2010

[Pharo-project] About my recursive blues :)

by Ken G. Brown

I used to think my current situation in life was as a sum total of all my previous environments, mistakes and experiences etc.. ie. that my past has determined my present. Then I learned somewhere about positive visualization and intention and how once you get a clear picture of your desired future, it makes it really easy to decide what you need to do today in order to work towards your desired future. ie. your desired future determines your present. The trick is getting a clear picture of your desired future. To this point you have done what you have done. Now, to my mind at least, if you could work out a way to bring the Squeak Trunk and Pharo forks, and other developments like Keith's important work with Sake/Packages and Bob the Builder, together so that so terribly much effort is not being wasted doing the same things over and over again, you will really have accomplished something. And remember too that the most important thing you can give your children is your undivided time and attention. All too soon they will be grown up and on their own. If you find yourself often saying things like, "Not now, Daddy's too busy.", pretty soon you will find they will stop coming around. Ken G. Brown At 9:37 PM +0100 1/6/10, pharo-project-request(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr apparently wrote: >Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 21:13:24 +0100 >From: St?phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> >Subject: [Pharo-project] About my recursive blues :) >To: "Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Development" > <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >Message-ID: <B0480EF9-3F1E-4B48-A4FE-A31834C97557(a)inria.fr> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Hi guys > >Sometimes I'm not in good mood. Today I was in a bad bad mood. Quite bad even badder. >I was wondering why I was doing all that and the rest. What was the use to do Pharo >if we get Squeak doing exactly the same - Ok we were right long time ago but still seeing all the removal of >crappy code we begged to be removed and got bashed for and also doing all that effort and seeing it redone >was not helping. Being right sometimes is not even cool :) So a plain bad day.... cold and rainy. >I was frustrated that I cannot be somebody else, doing stuff full time and no other duties >and going faster. In short nothing was working and I was a frustation ball like I'm good at being. > >But my kids were there and we had to go swimming! After going swimming and not thinking then thinking >and discussing with some remote friends and emails. (Thanks guys you know who you are) also thinking about other >people's attention and remarks in other contexts, my good mood came back even stronger than before >because I came up to the conclusion that my remote friends were right (BTW thanks pharoers some of you inspire me today >during my bad mood - alain, henrik, danny, lukas...) >So what is the conclusion of all that? > > - I have a cool job (one of the best research positions in europe - not easy everyday > but cool and with people supporting me with my crazy idea....imagine coding in smalltalk > building an international team doing smalltalkish stuff). > > - we can invest for 5 years or even 10. Close your eyes and imagine we can decide now what > we want to do now for the next 10 years and do it because we decided that this is fun. > Amazing. No clients, no venture guys telling us the truth of life. > > - To a friend to which I was saying that I'm not that smart, that guy > told me that smart is not the only measure: you can measure your impact, > the books you wrote, the energy that other people took and got inspired > and all kind of other measures.... :) > >So I can tell you I was down but this is good because I could think about what I really want to do. >And I want to have an innovative Smalltalk system that can be used to develop business and innovative. >(for example I would like to see if the new event system can be used to save Genie - one of the coolest >handwriting recognition system I see). >So I will not be extra-smart but I will learn and I will do it bit by bit. And I want to make it fun and beautiful. >May be we will be able to go faster (it depends mainly on you guys :)) but I want 10 years or 15 or even 20 >years of fun with a cool system and it is there in my hand (at three keystrokes from my keuboard). >We will build it. > >Stef (sorry for the one of you that have to listen my bad mood I'm curing myself).

Jan. 6, 2010

[Pharo-project] [update] #10505

by Adrian Lienhard

This update "fixes" the double paste bug by unloading the system host menu support. Please note, that the image needs to be restarted to take effect. 10505 ----- Issue 1323: Input problems (resolved for 1.0 by unloading System Host Menus) Issue 1604: The disabled buttons look ugly with the new strike fonts (thanks, Gary) Issue 1415: New version VBRegex (fix splitjoin) ___________________ http://www.adrian-lienhard.ch/

Jan. 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Finalization quirk

by John M McIntosh

Oh sure Bill you're violating rule (a). In squeak a full finalization pass is require to finalize all objects. This runs in to the Pharo's desire to only do incremental GCs and avoid a full GC. SystemDictionary>>setGCParameters Smalltalk setGCBiasToGrowGCLimit: 16*1024*1024. Smalltalk setGCBiasToGrow: 1. Which means that the image is happy to lurch around with a 16MB working space. Once that is exceeded then a full GC will occur. (yes yes, it's more complex that that, but it's just easier to say that's kinda what happens). The trade is deferring a full GC at the cost of deferring some finalized objects.... Frankly the default values for vmParameterAt: 5,6,24,25 I think are quite fictional based on desktop/laptop machines used in this decade, those values come from the era of 16Mhz 68030 macintosh SE/30 machines. However I do see that in initializeMemorySettingsProfileSeaSide someone picked more rational numbers but I think it's time that we clean those up this whole area. Doing this won't solve your finalization timing problem, in fact it might make it even longer or never since the objective would be to avoid a full GC, and deal with the occasional "pig in the snake" issue. I've not looked but Squeak images might not invoke setGCBiasToGrowGCLimit: so they would be more prone to invoking a full GC. For WikiServer on the iPhone I fiddled with a custom memory policy that attempts to avoid a full GC as long as possible since a full GC pass is measured on an ipod touch in nearly thousands of milliseconds. On 2010-01-06, at 12:45 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > > John, > > I realize you are being helpful and appreciate same. However, I am not violating anything; I am simply noting that Pharo is probably not finalizing objects nearly as soon as it could. My expectations (and awareness that it is not always immediate) come from Dolphin. > > Bill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of John M McIntosh > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:28 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Finalization quirk > > Bill, I always tell people > > (a) finalization will occur later, not when you think it should > (b) finalization will occur slower/faster than you think. > (c) both (a) & (b) will vary > > You're violating (a) > > There is mention of doing a full GC will force the finalization, but I can't recall if that finalizes (all) objects in old oops space in one pass with squeak. > Various Smalltalk flavours and versions do things differently, some at different times & versions perhaps would only finalize one oops per pass (visualage). > > > On 2010-01-06, at 10:12 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> I am trying to add finalization to something and appear to be at a point that finalization does not happen until I open the process browser. Any ideas? >> >> Bill >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > =========================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com > =========================================================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

Jan. 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Finalization quirk

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

John, I realize you are being helpful and appreciate same. However, I am not violating anything; I am simply noting that Pharo is probably not finalizing objects nearly as soon as it could. My expectations (and awareness that it is not always immediate) come from Dolphin. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of John M McIntosh Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:28 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Finalization quirk Bill, I always tell people (a) finalization will occur later, not when you think it should (b) finalization will occur slower/faster than you think. (c) both (a) & (b) will vary You're violating (a) There is mention of doing a full GC will force the finalization, but I can't recall if that finalizes (all) objects in old oops space in one pass with squeak. Various Smalltalk flavours and versions do things differently, some at different times & versions perhaps would only finalize one oops per pass (visualage). On 2010-01-06, at 10:12 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > I am trying to add finalization to something and appear to be at a point that finalization does not happen until I open the process browser. Any ideas? > > Bill > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com =========================================================================== _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Jan. 6, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Interim build server

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> Michael Roberts wrote: >> ... hudson looks >> good. all the dashboard and easy install stuff for free. do you >> regularly use & maintain it? > > I don't know anything about the community around Hudson. I happened to > see it at: > > http://ese.unibe.ch/exercises/project-cycle-1/ci > > (which supported Lukas' software engineering course). I liked the > features of Hudson, but didn't know how it could help with Smalltalk. > > Then I fell victim to the infamous "Save & quit" disaster, and lost my > trusty image. I knew I was not building from scratch frequently enough, > because I found the process long and tedious. After too much time spent > on Metacello, and other meanderings, the net results are the build > scripts and SUnit-to-Hudson test report XML code that was released. > > I use it regularly now. I use a day to day work image. When something is > stable, I save the Monticello packages, then go to my Hudson webpage and > click "Build now". When I feel the need to refresh my day to day work > image, then I navigate to the images directory in the job's workspace, > and click on "(all files in zip)" to download the newly built and tested > images. > > BTW, the test cases seem to run about ten times faster when built in a > headless image. One set of test cases took about 15 minutes to run from > the TestRunner GUI, but the automated build & test took just a minute > and a half. interesting. A notification resulting in UI update... or something like that. > > Another thing - Hudson has RSS feeds for the builds, so no need to email > anyone. Those interested should just subscribe to the feed. > > -- > Yanni > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Jan. 6, 2010