September 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] Fwd: Universes? or Metacello meta repository

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi I value the idea that when we look for a software (for example SIXX) we can find a version that is working. In the past we used Universes and if was successful. We cannot not have squeakmap and universe at the same time. I discussed with damien briefly about that and he told me that we coud have a metacello alternative. Now I wonder if for pharo 1.0 it makes sense. May be having a nice Universe for pharo would be good and important. Dale what do you think? Do you see metacello working in the story (may be for 1.1)? Stef

Sept. 16, 2009

[Pharo-project] why pharo? :)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

hi guys I found again this beautiful video that samuel sent when we were brainstorming about the name of Pharo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2LeNBY_5gk&feature=related Enjoy. Stef

Sept. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Status of Alien FFI

by Peter Hugosson-Miller

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Johan Brichau <johan.brichau(a)uclouvain.be>wrote: > It's fixed (except the AlienLoader -- read on). > > The only problem was loading order. > > I separated the extensions to the Parser (necessary to load the > primitive methods) into a separate package Alien-Prereqs. > If you load Alien-Prereqs before Alien-Core, it will work. > > I'm now trying to adapt the AlienLoader package to do the same but I'm > not familiar with Flair/Gofer. If someone can tell me how to ensure > package loading order? I tried the following but it does not make sure > the Prereqs is installed first (I only added the line with 'Alien- > Prereqs'). > > config project: 'Alien' dependsOn: [ > config package: 'Alien-Prereqs' from: ' > http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien' > . > config package: 'Alien-Core' from: ' > http://www.squeaksource.com/ > Alien'. > config package: 'Alien-CoreTest' from: ' > http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien' > . > config package: 'Alien-Examples' from: ' > http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien' > ]. > > > On 14 Sep 2009, at 23:36, Ken Treis wrote: > > > I'm unable to load Alien-Core into the latest Pharo (I'm on 10451), > > mostly because the package overrides some methods in Scanner/Parser > > and those overrides are out of sync with the current Pharo base. Is > > anyone working on bringing these into sync? I would be glad to take a > > stab at it but I'm hardly the best qualified person to do that. > > > > If there's a better mailing list for Alien issues/discussion, please > > let me know. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -- > > Ken Treis > > Miriam Technologies, Inc. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > ---------------------------- > Johan Brichau > johan.brichau(a)uclouvain.be > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > Is it possible to make 'Alien-Core' depend on 'Alien-Prereqs' (i.e. a nested dependency)? If it were then the correct loading order would be achieved -- Cheers, Peter

Sept. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Status of Alien FFI

by Johan Brichau

It's fixed (except the AlienLoader -- read on). The only problem was loading order. I separated the extensions to the Parser (necessary to load the primitive methods) into a separate package Alien-Prereqs. If you load Alien-Prereqs before Alien-Core, it will work. I'm now trying to adapt the AlienLoader package to do the same but I'm not familiar with Flair/Gofer. If someone can tell me how to ensure package loading order? I tried the following but it does not make sure the Prereqs is installed first (I only added the line with 'Alien- Prereqs'). config project: 'Alien' dependsOn: [ config package: 'Alien-Prereqs' from: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien' . config package: 'Alien-Core' from: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/ Alien'. config package: 'Alien-CoreTest' from: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien' . config package: 'Alien-Examples' from: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien' ]. On 14 Sep 2009, at 23:36, Ken Treis wrote: > I'm unable to load Alien-Core into the latest Pharo (I'm on 10451), > mostly because the package overrides some methods in Scanner/Parser > and those overrides are out of sync with the current Pharo base. Is > anyone working on bringing these into sync? I would be glad to take a > stab at it but I'm hardly the best qualified person to do that. > > If there's a better mailing list for Alien issues/discussion, please > let me know. > > Thanks, > > -- > Ken Treis > Miriam Technologies, Inc. > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ---------------------------- Johan Brichau johan.brichau(a)uclouvain.be

Sept. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Status of Alien FFI

by Johan Brichau

My first reply was wrong. It seems that Alien's Parser extensions are not loaded before the primitive methods, which is why it does not accept them. I'll try to fix this on the train to work. On 16 Sep 2009, at 07:20, John McIntosh wrote: > Yes because the intent was that the primitive would return a failure > error code versus prim failed, guess why? > > On 9/15/09, Johan Brichau <johan.brichau(a)uclouvain.be> wrote: >> The problem is that Pharo no longer considers the following primitive >> call syntactically correct: >> <primitive: 'primCalloc' error: errorCode module: 'IA32ABI'> >> >> It does work if we omit the errorCode: >> <primitive: 'primCalloc' module: 'IA32ABI'> >> >> >> Was this change in the parser intended?? >> >> >> On 15 Sep 2009, at 00:15, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >>> Hi ken >>> >>> >>> fernando is the guy that fixed alien so he will probably reply to >>> you >>> >>> Stef >>> On Sep 14, 2009, at 11:36 PM, Ken Treis wrote: >>> >>>> I'm unable to load Alien-Core into the latest Pharo (I'm on 10451), >>>> mostly because the package overrides some methods in Scanner/Parser >>>> and those overrides are out of sync with the current Pharo base. Is >>>> anyone working on bringing these into sync? I would be glad to >>>> take a >>>> stab at it but I'm hardly the best qualified person to do that. >>>> >>>> If there's a better mailing list for Alien issues/discussion, >>>> please >>>> let me know. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ken Treis >>>> Miriam Technologies, Inc. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> ---------------------------- >> Johan Brichau >> johan.brichau(a)uclouvain.be >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > -- > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http:// > www.smalltalkconsulting.com > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ---------------------------- Johan Brichau johan.brichau(a)uclouvain.be

Sept. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Status of Alien FFI

by John McIntosh

Yes because the intent was that the primitive would return a failure error code versus prim failed, guess why? On 9/15/09, Johan Brichau <johan.brichau(a)uclouvain.be> wrote: > The problem is that Pharo no longer considers the following primitive > call syntactically correct: > <primitive: 'primCalloc' error: errorCode module: 'IA32ABI'> > > It does work if we omit the errorCode: > <primitive: 'primCalloc' module: 'IA32ABI'> > > > Was this change in the parser intended?? > > > On 15 Sep 2009, at 00:15, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Hi ken >> >> >> fernando is the guy that fixed alien so he will probably reply to you >> >> Stef >> On Sep 14, 2009, at 11:36 PM, Ken Treis wrote: >> >>> I'm unable to load Alien-Core into the latest Pharo (I'm on 10451), >>> mostly because the package overrides some methods in Scanner/Parser >>> and those overrides are out of sync with the current Pharo base. Is >>> anyone working on bringing these into sync? I would be glad to take a >>> stab at it but I'm hardly the best qualified person to do that. >>> >>> If there's a better mailing list for Alien issues/discussion, please >>> let me know. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> -- >>> Ken Treis >>> Miriam Technologies, Inc. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > ---------------------------- > Johan Brichau > johan.brichau(a)uclouvain.be > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

Sept. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Status of Alien FFI

by Johan Brichau

The problem is that Pharo no longer considers the following primitive call syntactically correct: <primitive: 'primCalloc' error: errorCode module: 'IA32ABI'> It does work if we omit the errorCode: <primitive: 'primCalloc' module: 'IA32ABI'> Was this change in the parser intended?? On 15 Sep 2009, at 00:15, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi ken > > > fernando is the guy that fixed alien so he will probably reply to you > > Stef > On Sep 14, 2009, at 11:36 PM, Ken Treis wrote: > >> I'm unable to load Alien-Core into the latest Pharo (I'm on 10451), >> mostly because the package overrides some methods in Scanner/Parser >> and those overrides are out of sync with the current Pharo base. Is >> anyone working on bringing these into sync? I would be glad to take a >> stab at it but I'm hardly the best qualified person to do that. >> >> If there's a better mailing list for Alien issues/discussion, please >> let me know. >> >> Thanks, >> >> -- >> Ken Treis >> Miriam Technologies, Inc. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ---------------------------- Johan Brichau johan.brichau(a)uclouvain.be

Sept. 16, 2009

[Pharo-project] Visual nonsense

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Gary, especially for the W2k theme, it would be really nice to have a distinct look for the selected view's icon in the task bar. Andy, is there a good place to change the background fill style? When I last looked, it seemed to me that it was hard-coded. You mentioned a configuration tool you wanted to build, but I would be happy to use a do-it chunk to make the change; I just could not find a relevant style. Sorry to bug you guys with such relative minutia. Thanks to all for the lots of stuff that works well enough that I notice these things. Bill

Sept. 15, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Object serialization in Pharo

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, Sounds great. ReferenceStream has some real problems, and it might be very difficult to change in ways that would not orphan existing data, if in fact there is any - projects perhaps?? It might be best to adopt an existing serializer or build a clean one of our own. With some care and a few compatibility methods, we can probably write tests that can work with multiple serializers, and perhaps even profile them at the same time. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:18 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Object serialization in Pharo > Stef, > > Henry's warning tells me I'm not alone in being afraid of Squeak's > serializer. A while ago, I had settled on SIXX as the likely best > option for me, but will certainly consider other options. For the > Dolphin filer, my tests mostly center on loading objects with old > schemas. It was fairly easy to do because I had old data in > abundance, and simply loaded some of it into new images. For Pharo, > we might write tests that compile a class, serialize, make some > changes to the class and reload the "old" data. The details will > probably depend on the serializer(s) we select. > > My plan has been to start out using SIXX for network transport of data > between like images (where schema changes are not a concern) and then > begin to look at archival uses if that goes well. > > Does that answer your question? ok we will evaluate SIXX. Now my point is that we should have good solutions: so if referenceStream can be fix we fix it else we trash it. Half-baked solutions just hinder progress. My goal is this community is to set the cap (fun for a lighthouse) and the cap for 1.2 and other releases. I want a neat nice robust working documented system and each step going in that direction is an important one. Stef > > Bill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr > ] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 1:19 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Object serialization in Pharo > >> Stef, >> >> The packaging constraint had nothing to do with Pharo. See the [ANN] >> thread on #readStream replacing ReadStream on: (around 4 Sept). >> SecureSqueak is the system with the apparent limitation; it really >> does have that constraint, it will not be of much use to me. >> >> Unit tests for a serializer would be well-taken, but I will largely >> have to start over. Choosing a filer seems to be the first step. >> Squeak's ReferenceStream did not strike me as a good option; if you >> wish to argue in its favor, please do so. Otherwise, I would like to >> see SIXX get a good evaluation, as well as any other options that >> should be considered. > > I'm sure that I want an XML parser in the way but why not. > I started to write some tests just to learn and document. I would even > have no problem to throw away everything it there is a better > solution. Now what tests will let enable us to change and nothing what > we change. > > Stef >> >> Bill >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr >> ] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse >> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:06 AM >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Object serialization in Pharo >> >> >> On Sep 15, 2009, at 4:16 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> >>> Simon, >>> >>> I wish you well and will be eager to hear progress reports. Long >>> ago, I looked at ReferenceStream (or maybe SmartReferenceStream), >>> and did not like what I found. IIRC, the output for simple examples >>> was much larger (of course, it might not continue to scale so >>> unfavorably) compared that that produced by Dolphin's binary filer. >>> Another concern was schema changes. >>> >>> Dolphin has an orderly conversion process that will raise an error >>> if it is not prepared for what it finds; Squeak seemed to want to >>> fix it itself with the aid of the user (not gonna fly in an end-user >>> app or a server process, which is pretty much everything). >>> >>> Dolphin locates conversion methods in the class of the object being >>> converted or in the class of a proxy for it (that sounded scary to >>> me when I read about it, but it is exactly what one would want in >>> practice). In contrast, Squeak puts the conversion methods in >>> ReferenceStream. Yuk!!! Sorry, don't know what just came over me >>> :) Of course one can always modify ReferenceStream[*], but imagine >>> the chaos if ReferenceStream were to become widely used. >>> >>> I have used serializers to good effect and would like to continue >>> doing so. At the moment, I would look again, but would lean away >>> from ReferenceStream. >> >> I started to write some tests in the PharoTaskForces. >> If people want to join effort because before changing I would like to >> know what is there. >> >>> SIXX (an XML serializer) is a possibility. As I recall, its output >>> was not terse (but might compress nicely??). There originally was >>> minimal to no support for shape changes, but that has been >>> addressed; I cannot speak for how well it has been done because I >>> have not had time to look. It is on my todo list and might float to >>> the surface soon, though initially I would not need to care about >>> shape changes. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> [*] I think we recently discussed a Squeak fork that would not allow >>> touching base classes due to packaging limitations. >> >> really? >> >>> Not good. I am not defending the ReferenceStream example, but it >>> would be a big problem on that system, if I understood that thread. >> >> I would like to fix that >> We need a good object serializer. >> >> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> ] On Behalf Of Simon Denier >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 8:32 AM >>> To: Pharo Development >>> Subject: [Pharo-project] Object serialization in Pharo >>> >>> Hi folks >>> >>> I'm looking at the code and comments of ReferenceStream for object >>> serialization and I wonder what is the best strategy to serialize a >>> partial model. I mean, I want to store all elements found while >>> traversing the graph of the model, but I dont want to store some >>> attributes of those elements (i.e., transient attributes). >>> >>> Any sample? >>> >>> -- >>> Simon >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 15, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] New Pharo and pharo-web based on core 10451

by nullPointer

OSX Leopard. Well, IÂ´m be working with 10418 and works perfectly, but with superiors i have that problem. Sorry for not give a complete StackTrace. Regards 2009/9/15 Damien Cassou (via Nabble) < ml-user+179881-1048638155(a)n2.nabble.com<ml-user%2B179881-1048638155(a)n2.nabble.com> > > On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 7:46 PM, nullPointer <[hidden email]<http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3651111&i=0>> > wrote: > > I have in the latests dev images ( 10440,10446,10451 ) a error of > > "FT2Handle-primitiveFailed" when i try save image. That error dont exists > > > always. Only appears sometimes. To anybody passed him has the same? > > Never seen that on my Linux box. What's your OS? > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them > popular by not having them." James Iry > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email]<http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3651111&i=1> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > ------------------------------ > View message @ > http://n2.nabble.com/New-Pharo-and-pharo-web-based-on-core-10451-tp3642632p… > To unsubscribe from Re: New Pharo and pharo-web based on core 10451, click > here< (link removed) >. > > > -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/New-Pharo-and-pharo-web-based-on-core-10451-tp3642632p… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Sept. 15, 2009