September 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Spring in November, Argentina

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

for me this is ok too. this can also be the sunday before since I will arrive from chile the firday evening. stef On Sep 18, 2009, at 11:32 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > Do we know the exact day of the sprint? I suggest during weekend as > most of us has to work during the week. It would be nice on Sunday > 22 but I don't know if the University is open. > > Best, > > Mariano > > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Alexandre Bergel > <alexandre(a)bergel.eu> wrote: > Done. you're on the list. > > Alexandre > > On 10 Sep 2009, at 17:21, csrabak(a)bol.com.br wrote: > > > My first name is Cesar. > > > > > > Em 09/09/2009 13:29, Alexandre Bergel < alexandre(a)bergel.eu > > > escreveu: > > > > > > I can add it. What is your firstname - name ? > > > > Alexandre > > > > > > On 9 Sep 2009, at 10:00, csrabak(a)bol.com.br wrote: > > > > > Would it suffice I add a comment in the wiki or should I get > some > > > specific id in order to edit the wiki page itself? > > > > > > BTW, if anything else fails:: I'm attemting to apply :-) > > > > > > > > > Em 08/09/2009 15:10, Alexandre Bergel < alexandre(a)bergel.eu > > > > > > escreveu: > > > > > > > > > Dear List, > > > > > > I added a section in the Sprint wiki page: > > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/PharoSprints?ts=1252433348&updated=… > > > > > > People should add their name. I will send a remainder a few > days > > > before the event. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Alexandre > > > > > > -- > > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pharo-project mailing list > > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pharo-project mailing list > > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 19, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Status of Alien FFI

by Igor Stasenko

2009/9/18 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > yes this is one of my dream but .... > I'm not good enough to make it come true. > Lua is specifically designed from the very starting to live well as embedded system, written in C. No wonder that its having very good C interoperability. And that's why, at the time i found the smalltalk, first thing i thought, that creating an interoperability layer between C and smalltalk will unleash its potential for use in scripting. Unfortunately, almost every implementation i found & read about smalltalk vere designed as a self-sustained (or self-sufficient) sandboxed environment with a little care about host interoperability in mind. Even existence of FFI in Squeak doesn't changes that, because Squeak VM architecture as well as language-side design prevents you from controlling interpreter from outside. A less painful way for achieving a kind of embedding, as Andreas mentioned, that you can write the plugin which using callback machinery and create an image which simpli 'listening' for calls from outside then handle them and put response back. But i can't tell, how efficient it could be comparing to Lua scripting interface. For instance, if i would want to enable the dynamic primitive publishing (which host application may want to use), then this would require VM changes. That's why i proposed , some time ago, to modify the VM internal infrastructure to have a kind of namespace, which is dynamically built-up using associations of symbols (C strings) with some pointer/values. Then you can publish primitives at any time you wanting to, replace them at run time and do many other kind of tricks, which is possible, when function pointer is not bound at compile time, but discovered by VM at run time. At some point we could even use a JIT to generate the primitives and then let VM to pick them up at run time. This means, that at some point you could JIT everything you need, and replace the C-compiled VM stuff after booting the image, and from now on, VM is not something which is made from stone like all C-compiled binaries. So different images could carry own system inside which, once its booted up, no longer needs the statically compiled crap. This also means, that by having a good JIT and VM tuned for this, we don't really need writing any C code anymore, because main reason why we doing this is speed and easy interoperability with host environment. :) > Stef > > On Sep 18, 2009, at 6:40 PM, Lawson English wrote: > >> Johan Brichau wrote: >>> On 16 Sep 2009, at 20:37, Ken Treis wrote: >>> >>> >>>> * I'm creating a partial Alien library for GemStone so that I can >>>> use the CairoGraphics package in both Pharo and GLASS. But on >>>> x86-64, there there's a size difference between a pointer/long and >>>> an integer. It'd be nice to have some more explicit APIs on Alien, >>>> so I could say "Alien newCInteger" or "Alien newCLong" and have the >>>> platform return me the proper size Alien. Even without the platform >>>> size differences, it seems awkward to use "Alien newC: 4" everywhere >>>> I want an integer, "Alien newC: 8" where I want a double, etc. >>>> >>> >>> Exactly. >>> >>> It becomes worse once you start having structs and nested structs or >>> structs with pointers to structs ;-) >>> >>> I'm using Alien as the FFI to port JavaConnect from Visualworks to >>> Pharo/Squeak. As you say, it is a pain to work at such a low-level >>> compared to the DLLCC in VW. I am planning to do some work on >>> creating >>> a higher-level interface for it such that we can operate it as you >>> mention, including the correct bytesizes for all platforms. >>> >>> At the moment, I'm mostly focusing on getting the port to work right >>> before I start creating an interface on top of the current Alien >>> interface. >>> >>> >>> >> >> Something to keep in mind is the need for a straightforward way of >> going >> the other way: John Mcintosh's port of the Squeak VM to iPhone implies >> that the same thing could be done in other Lua-ish situations, >> allowing >> people to use smalltalk syntax for game scripting. With the right >> libraries for an IDE, I would think squeak could be very attractive to >> at least some people in place of/in addition to using Lua. >> >> >> Lawson >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Sept. 19, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Spring in November, Argentina

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Do we know the exact day of the sprint? I suggest during weekend as most of us has to work during the week. It would be nice on Sunday 22 but I don't know if the University is open. Best, Mariano On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu>wrote: > Done. you're on the list. > > Alexandre > > On 10 Sep 2009, at 17:21, csrabak(a)bol.com.br wrote: > > > My first name is Cesar. > > > > > > Em 09/09/2009 13:29, Alexandre Bergel < alexandre(a)bergel.eu > > > escreveu: > > > > > > I can add it. What is your firstname - name ? > > > > Alexandre > > > > > > On 9 Sep 2009, at 10:00, csrabak(a)bol.com.br wrote: > > > > > Would it suffice I add a comment in the wiki or should I get some > > > specific id in order to edit the wiki page itself? > > > > > > BTW, if anything else fails:: I'm attemting to apply :-) > > > > > > > > > Em 08/09/2009 15:10, Alexandre Bergel < alexandre(a)bergel.eu > > > > > > escreveu: > > > > > > > > > Dear List, > > > > > > I added a section in the Sprint wiki page: > > > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/PharoSprints?ts=1252433348&updated=… > > > > > > People should add their name. I will send a remainder a few days > > > before the event. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Alexandre > > > > > > -- > > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pharo-project mailing list > > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pharo-project mailing list > > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Progress bars

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Check SystemProgressMorph example 'Progress' displayProgressAt: Display center from: 0 to: 1000 during: [:bar | 0 to: 1000 do: [:i | bar value: i. (Delay forMilliseconds: 2) wait]] Stef On Sep 18, 2009, at 7:33 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Hello all, > > Is there a preferred way to produce a progress bar? The example > below seems to work, but is there a better way? Is there a way to > provide a cancel button? > > Bill > > > > [ > #( 1 2 3 4 5 ) > do:[ :each | > ( Delay forMilliseconds:500 ) wait. > ] > displayingProgress:'Gratuitous Progress Bar.' > ] fork. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 18, 2009

[Pharo-project] Progress bars

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Hello all, Is there a preferred way to produce a progress bar? The example below seems to work, but is there a better way? Is there a way to provide a cancel button? Bill [ #( 1 2 3 4 5 ) do:[ :each | ( Delay forMilliseconds:500 ) wait. ] displayingProgress:'Gratuitous Progress Bar.' ] fork.

Sept. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Status of Alien FFI

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

yes this is one of my dream but .... I'm not good enough to make it come true. Stef On Sep 18, 2009, at 6:40 PM, Lawson English wrote: > Johan Brichau wrote: >> On 16 Sep 2009, at 20:37, Ken Treis wrote: >> >> >>> * I'm creating a partial Alien library for GemStone so that I can >>> use the CairoGraphics package in both Pharo and GLASS. But on >>> x86-64, there there's a size difference between a pointer/long and >>> an integer. It'd be nice to have some more explicit APIs on Alien, >>> so I could say "Alien newCInteger" or "Alien newCLong" and have the >>> platform return me the proper size Alien. Even without the platform >>> size differences, it seems awkward to use "Alien newC: 4" everywhere >>> I want an integer, "Alien newC: 8" where I want a double, etc. >>> >> >> Exactly. >> >> It becomes worse once you start having structs and nested structs or >> structs with pointers to structs ;-) >> >> I'm using Alien as the FFI to port JavaConnect from Visualworks to >> Pharo/Squeak. As you say, it is a pain to work at such a low-level >> compared to the DLLCC in VW. I am planning to do some work on >> creating >> a higher-level interface for it such that we can operate it as you >> mention, including the correct bytesizes for all platforms. >> >> At the moment, I'm mostly focusing on getting the port to work right >> before I start creating an interface on top of the current Alien >> interface. >> >> >> > > Something to keep in mind is the need for a straightforward way of > going > the other way: John Mcintosh's port of the Squeak VM to iPhone implies > that the same thing could be done in other Lua-ish situations, > allowing > people to use smalltalk syntax for game scripting. With the right > libraries for an IDE, I would think squeak could be very attractive to > at least some people in place of/in addition to using Lua. > > > Lawson > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Status of Alien FFI

by Lawson English

Johan Brichau wrote: > On 16 Sep 2009, at 20:37, Ken Treis wrote: > > >> * I'm creating a partial Alien library for GemStone so that I can >> use the CairoGraphics package in both Pharo and GLASS. But on >> x86-64, there there's a size difference between a pointer/long and >> an integer. It'd be nice to have some more explicit APIs on Alien, >> so I could say "Alien newCInteger" or "Alien newCLong" and have the >> platform return me the proper size Alien. Even without the platform >> size differences, it seems awkward to use "Alien newC: 4" everywhere >> I want an integer, "Alien newC: 8" where I want a double, etc. >> > > Exactly. > > It becomes worse once you start having structs and nested structs or > structs with pointers to structs ;-) > > I'm using Alien as the FFI to port JavaConnect from Visualworks to > Pharo/Squeak. As you say, it is a pain to work at such a low-level > compared to the DLLCC in VW. I am planning to do some work on creating > a higher-level interface for it such that we can operate it as you > mention, including the correct bytesizes for all platforms. > > At the moment, I'm mostly focusing on getting the port to work right > before I start creating an interface on top of the current Alien > interface. > > > Something to keep in mind is the need for a straightforward way of going the other way: John Mcintosh's port of the Squeak VM to iPhone implies that the same thing could be done in other Lua-ish situations, allowing people to use smalltalk syntax for game scripting. With the right libraries for an IDE, I would think squeak could be very attractive to at least some people in place of/in addition to using Lua. Lawson

Sept. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] collapsable pane

by Tudor Girba

That looks promising. Thanks, Doru On 18 Sep 2009, at 10:07, Damien Cassou wrote: > On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Tudor Girba <girba(a)iam.unibe.ch> > wrote: >> Is there a Morphic widget that would allow a pane to be collapsed? > > Expander morph maybe? > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them > popular by not having them." James Iry > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- www.tudorgirba.com "Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of problem understanding."

Sept. 18, 2009

[Pharo-project] [ANN] Smalltalks 2009 / FAST website

by Andres Valloud

Greetings, The FundaciÃ³n Argentina de Smalltalk, FAST :), is pleased to announce the Smalltalks 2009 website. The address is http://www.fast.org.ar Enjoy! Andres.

Sept. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] collapsable pane

by Damien Cassou

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Tudor Girba <girba(a)iam.unibe.ch> wrote: > Is there a Morphic widget that would allow a pane to be collapsed? Expander morph maybe? -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry

Sept. 18, 2009