August 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] New Pharo based on core 10413

by Eagle Offshore

I just downloaded the 1.0beta on the site and it immediately throws up a deprecation warning bout initialsPerSe - please use fullNamePerSe That makes a poor first impression. On Aug 9, 2009, at 10:48 AM, Damien Cassou wrote: > Please download and report problems: > > http://pharo-project.org/pharo-download > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them > popular by not having them." James Iry > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 15, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Complex number support discussion

by Igor Stasenko

+1 no globals, please :) 2009/8/15 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>: > I really do not like the flag idea, because it is global.Â What if there are > two phases to something, one that uses complex numbers, and one that does > not?Â Since the complex numbers are the far less likely be needed and much > newer feature to Smalltalk, the separate world design will be the cleaner > and better accepted option. > > Bill > > ________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of > csrabak(a)bol.com.br > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 7:16 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Complex number support discussion > > That's why I suggest (once Complex be loaded) a flag something like > Smalltalk complexResultsOn and its counterpart to turn off be used instead. > > > Em 14/08/2009 20:53, John McIntosh < johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com > > escreveu: > > Yes but we usually don't do explicit casting Like 2 asFloat * 3.0 > We could but where does the implicit type conversion lie? > > > On 8/14/09, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> John, >> >> If I may be so presumptuous, the answer is to have people use #asComplex >> when they want complex results. -2 sqrt throws an error; -2 asComplex sqrt >> gives the complex (imaginary) result. Then we break no old code, we offer >> useful new features with minimal effort required to invoke them. >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of John M >> McIntosh >> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 4:55 PM >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria .fr >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Complex number support discussion >> >> >> On 14-Aug-09, at 1:04 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> >>> John, >>> >>> That is not far from the eveolving conscensous opinion - I think we >>> can indeed claim to have a collective desire to leave integers and >>> floats as they are. One concern I have about your suggestion is what >>> happens when the user loads the complex package? Does existing code >>> break? It would given Ken's proposal. There are alternatives, and >>> they are discussed in this fairly extensive thread. >>> >>> Besides, someone wanting complex numbers will look for and load a >>> package to support them, as long as it is good code. Complex is fine >>> as far as it goes; some FFI magic to benefit from GSL functionality >>> would be nice. We should also have an analog to FloatArray that has >>> complex entries; again, a wrapper onto GSL would be a nice addition. >>> >>> I have no power over Ken; he can build what he wants. I would like to >>> see his energy directed toward creating something we can all use. I >>> suggest a layered proposal on the wiki and up or down votes on what >>> becomes part of Pharo. If the vote(s) split, we have benevolent >>> dictators to sort it out. >>> >>> Bill >> >> Ah, yes well I think I lost the 0.2 = (1/2) argument, so anything goes. >> >> I think the choice is either numbers + complex work as expected, or you >> just >> offer number then offer to load the complex logic as soon as someone wants >> -2 sqrt. >> >> Obviously the problem here is that for a vast range of programmers if you >> offer up -2 sqrt by default and it does not throw an excepti on they will >> be >> confused. Some of them likely have NO idea what a complex number is. >> >> Random thoughts. >> >> No-doubt there are abuses of math to string where people assume you have >> an >> integer like thing versus a complex number string. >> >> >> -- >> = >> = >> = >> ======================================================================== >> John M. McIntosh Twitter: >> squeaker68882 >> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com >> = >> = >> = >> ======================================================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > -- > =========================================================================== > John M. McIntosh > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com > =========================================================================== > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Aug. 15, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Fundamentals volume 1

by Andres Valloud

The content is pretty much dialect agnostic. It does reference VisualWorks every so often, but only for the sake of illustration. Henry Lenzi wrote: > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:29 PM, Andres > Valloud<avalloud(a)smalltalk.comcastbiz.net> wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I just published the 400 page book Fundamentals of Smalltalk Programming Technique, volume 1. >> > > Great, congratulations. Is this specific to the Squeak/Pharo Smalltalk flavor? > > - Henry >

Aug. 15, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Fundamentals volume 1

by Henry Lenzi

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:29 PM, Andres Valloud<avalloud(a)smalltalk.comcastbiz.net> wrote: > Hello, > > I just published the 400 page book Fundamentals of Smalltalk Programming Technique, volume 1. Great, congratulations. Is this specific to the Squeak/Pharo Smalltalk flavor? - Henry

Aug. 15, 2009

[Pharo-project] [ANN] Fundamentals volume 1

by Andres Valloud

Hello, I just published the 400 page book Fundamentals of Smalltalk Programming Technique, volume 1. To some extent it's fitting that I am publishing another book this time of the year. I started writing the Mentoring Course book (of which the Hash book was chapter 7) almost 4 years ago. The three books total about 1200 pages. Something I realized with the Mentoring Course book is that I could take advantage of mentoring myself because I had already sharpened several Smalltalk skills. The Fundamentals book talks about these abilities. As with the Mentoring Course book, there is too much material for a single book. Thus, the first volume just published talks about the controlled manipulation of boolean expressions, inheritance, and polymorphism. In fact, there is a continuum of points of view on the subjects, ranging from the goal of producing very little yet highly maintainable code, to the architecture of highly optimized implementations, as well as valuable compromises in between. In fact, at times, it is possible to avoid sacrificing flexibility for speed, or viceversa. The second volume will talk about enumeration, recursion, weakness, and optimization. I am sure it will be a fun book to write. In the mean time, enjoy volume 1! http://www.lulu.com/content/7451511 http://www.lulu.com/avSmalltalkBooks Andres.

Aug. 15, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Class browser with changing title.

by Mariano Martinez Peck

2009/8/14 Javier PimÃ¡s <elpochodelagente(a)gmail.com> > Thanks everybody for the answers of last post. Finally I used the technique > Mariano recommended because it was just what I wanted. I really like when I can help someone and then the thing that this folks was doing helps me :) > > > Here I'm proposing a really small change to the class browser so that > whenever a class or method is selected it's title is changed accordingly. > The title produced is such that you can distinguish the browsers when > looking at the taskbar (very usefull when you have many browsers opened). In > case you like it, it would be nice to have it included in main pharo. I could fileIn it perfectly in a beta web and I really like it. Would love it to be in Pharo core. Best, Mariano > > > -- > Javier PimÃ¡s > Ciudad de Buenos Aires > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Aug. 15, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Question about Socket

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Schwab: You were very clear and right. I also asked in squeak-dev and Andres Raab said: "The socket interfaces are entirely asynchronous, i.e., there is no blocking. Sockets have semaphores associated with them that are signaled when anything interesting is happening. Check out methods like Socket>>sendData: to see how this stuff works together." Thanks! Mariano 2009/8/14 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> > Mariano, > > I might have walke into precisely the situation I was describing: maybe the > IDE is blocking, not the socket. If so, I still end up wondering why cmd-. > is of so little help?? > > Bill > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto: > pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] *On Behalf Of *Schwab,Wilhelm > K > *Sent:* Friday, August 14, 2009 2:27 PM > *To:* Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-project] Question about Socket > > Mariano, > > Sockets _should not_block the the entire image, but I have just seen it > happen with LDAPlayer; I am not yet sure what to make of it. That said, > there should be a way to block the UI until something happens, but that > should not be done from the sockets layer, as too many things benefit from > mutliple conversations happening in the background. On the blocking side, > see references to gemstone interfacing, where the server response is > integral to the ide responses, so blocking is considered essential. > > Bill > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto: > pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] *On Behalf Of *Mariano > Martinez Peck > *Sent:* Friday, August 14, 2009 1:44 PM > *To:* The general-purpose Squeak developers list; Pharo Development > *Subject:* [Pharo-project] Question about Socket > > Hi folks: I am preparing my SqueakDBX talk for ESUG and I am doing some > comparisons between a database driver with an external library trough FFI > and a native driver. I know FFI locks the VM until the function it is being > invoked, finishes. But I don't know what happens with Sockets. Do sockets > lock the hole VM until you obtain a response? > > Thanks for any light in this field. > > Best, > > Mariano > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Aug. 15, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Complex number support discussion

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

I really do not like the flag idea, because it is global. What if there are two phases to something, one that uses complex numbers, and one that does not? Since the complex numbers are the far less likely be needed and much newer feature to Smalltalk, the separate world design will be the cleaner and better accepted option. Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of csrabak(a)bol.com.br Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 7:16 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Complex number support discussion That's why I suggest (once Complex be loaded) a flag something like Smalltalk complexResultsOn and its counterpart to turn off be used instead. Em 14/08/2009 20:53, John McIntosh < johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com > escreveu: Yes but we usually don't do explicit casting Like 2 asFloat * 3.0 We could but where does the implicit type conversion lie? On 8/14/09, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > John, > > If I may be so presumptuous, the answer is to have people use #asComplex > when they want complex results. -2 sqrt throws an error; -2 asComplex sqrt > gives the complex (imaginary) result. Then we break no old code, we offer > useful new features with minimal effort required to invoke them. > > Bill > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of John M > McIntosh > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 4:55 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria .fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Complex number support discussion > > > On 14-Aug-09, at 1:04 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> John, >> >> That is not far from the eveolving conscensous opinion - I think we >> can indeed claim to have a collective desire to leave integers and >> floats as they are. One concern I have about your suggestion is what >> happens when the user loads the complex package? Does existing code >> break? It would given Ken's proposal. There are alternatives, and >> they are discussed in this fairly extensive thread. >> >> Besides, someone wanting complex numbers will look for and load a >> package to support them, as long as it is good code. Complex is fine >> as far as it goes; some FFI magic to benefit from GSL functionality >> would be nice. We should also have an analog to FloatArray that has >> complex entries; again, a wrapper onto GSL would be a nice addition. >> >> I have no power over Ken; he can build what he wants. I would like to >> see his energy directed toward creating something we can all use. I >> suggest a layered proposal on the wiki and up or down votes on what >> becomes part of Pharo. If the vote(s) split, we have benevolent >> dictators to sort it out. >> >> Bill > > Ah, yes well I think I lost the 0.2 = (1/2) argument, so anything goes. > > I think the choice is either numbers + complex work as expected, or you just > offer number then offer to load the complex logic as soon as someone wants > -2 sqrt. > > Obviously the problem here is that for a vast range of programmers if you > offer up -2 sqrt by default and it does not throw an excepti on they will be > confused. Some of them likely have NO idea what a complex number is. > > Random thoughts. > > No-doubt there are abuses of math to string where people assume you have an > integer like thing versus a complex number string. > > > -- > = > = > = > ======================================================================== > John M. McIntosh Twitter: > squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com > = > = > = > ======================================================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com =========================================================================== _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 15, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Complex number support discussion

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Ken, Sounds good. Again, I strongly suggest doing it in layers so that a base package can be installed without changing code that depends on current behavior. Then if you want to have another package on top of that to push the envelop, do so with our blessing. You might look at my proposal on streams. I honestly think that the breaking changes approach is the correct one, but it could be a tough sell, so I have a backup plan to allow me to work safely even if the big idea does not sell. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Ken.Dickey Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 6:51 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Complex number support discussion > I have no power over Ken; he can build what he wants. I would like to > see his energy directed toward creating something we can all use. I > suggest a layered proposal on the wiki and up or down votes on what > becomes part of Pharo. If the vote(s) split, we have benevolent dictators to sort it out. Bill, Many thanks. I had missed the reference to "wiki" on http://pharo-project.org/community and did not see mention on http://pharo-project.org/documentation/faq or http://pharo-project.org/about/organization Up to now I had seen zero references to proper process. In particular, I would have followed http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/HowToContribute rather than dumping code here. I'll be happy to use the wiki for a proposal. Other contributor newbie suggestions welcomed. If nobody tells me I don't know. Thanks again, -KenD _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 15, 2009

[Pharo-project] Class browser with changing title.

by Javier PimÃ¡s

Thanks everybody for the answers of last post. Finally I used the technique Mariano recommended because it was just what I wanted. Here I'm proposing a really small change to the class browser so that whenever a class or method is selected it's title is changed accordingly. The title produced is such that you can distinguish the browsers when looking at the taskbar (very usefull when you have many browsers opened). In case you like it, it would be nice to have it included in main pharo. -- Javier PimÃ¡s Ciudad de Buenos Aires

Aug. 15, 2009