August 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] #< if at first you dont succeed..

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Ken, As a frequent user of complex numbers, I go from real to complex and back and very deliberately. In the most common scenarios, the end game involves complex numbers that should be real (imaginary parts being only roundoff error). I (cautiously) ignore the roundoff, compare the real parts and sometimes the modului of compex numbers. Your proposed implementation is ok, but I have a hard time seeing it being useful. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Igor Stasenko Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 5:04 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] #< if at first you dont succeed.. 2009/8/15 Ken.Dickey <Ken.Dickey(a)whidbey.com>: > Taking a hint from the comments (yes, I do listen), here is a "less > complex" :) solution: > > Complex>> > < aNumber > Â Â Â Â "Not defined on Complex numbers" > > Â Â Â Â ^self asReal < aNumber asReal > > Complex>> > asReal > Â Â Â Â "Answer real-part of self if imaginary is zero else, error" > Â Â Â Â (imaginary = 0) > Â Â Â Â ifTrue: [^real] > Â Â Â Â ifFalse: [self error: 'Can''t convert to real'] > > Better? By reading a comment: "Not defined on Complex numbers" i wonder why implementation is different than following: Complex>> < aNumber "Not defined on Complex numbers" self shouldNotImplement ;) But yes, given the fact that Complex numbers could be used by someone in code as real numbers, and therefore expecting #< to work, an implementation proposed by you is plausible. > > -KenD > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 15, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Fundamentals volume 1

by Andres Valloud

Yes, I plan to take some with me :). Andres. Henrik Sperre Johansen wrote: > On 15.08.2009 04:29, Andres Valloud wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I just published the 400 page book Fundamentals of Smalltalk Programming Technique, volume 1. To some extent it's fitting that I am publishing another book this time of the year. I started writing the Mentoring Course book (of which the Hash book was chapter 7) almost 4 years ago. The three books total about 1200 pages. >> >> Something I realized with the Mentoring Course book is that I could take advantage of mentoring myself because I had already sharpened several Smalltalk skills. The Fundamentals book talks about these abilities. As with the Mentoring Course book, there is too much material for a single book. Thus, the first volume just published talks about the controlled manipulation of boolean expressions, inheritance, and polymorphism. In fact, there is a continuum of points of view on the subjects, ranging from the goal of producing very little yet highly maintainable code, to the architecture of highly optimized implementations, as well as valuable compromises in between. In fact, at times, it is possible to avoid sacrificing flexibility for speed, or viceversa. >> >> The second volume will talk about enumeration, recursion, weakness, and optimization. I am sure it will be a fun book to write. In the mean time, enjoy volume 1! >> >> http://www.lulu.com/content/7451511 >> >> http://www.lulu.com/avSmalltalkBooks >> >> Andres. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> >> > Nice, I loved the two previous ones! > Will there be paperback versions availiable at ESUG? > > Cheers, > Henry > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > . > >

Aug. 15, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] OBDependencyWalker for Pharo

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

Hi Cesar, Please update to the latest version of the DependencyBrowser. I was using a ClassSortFilter for filtering packages (which is wrong), and there are two different implementations of this message from David and Lukas: OBClassSortFilter>>nodesFrom:forNode: The one from David was preventing to send #theClass classNodes := nodes select: [ :ea | ea respondsTo: #theClass ]. but I don't know which one is the right one, the implementation from Lukas is newer and usually his releases works pretty fine. Recently Colin posted another OB version, I hope the work done in OB gets a better coordination, it would be such a sad thing to have good incompatible versions of the framework. Cheers, HernÃ¡n 2009/8/14 <csrabak(a)bol.com.br>: > HernÃ¡n, > > I also don't have the expertise to debug it, but could you get more info if > you put a #theClass method in OBClassSort with a sefl halt on it? > > It will avoid the sending of messages upstream in the "food chain"... > > Em 14/08/2009 09:05, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < hernan.morales(a)gmail.com > > escreveu: > > Ok, I found this could be related with an OB installation using this > script: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ImageBuildScripts > I've loaded "AST", "Refactoring", "OmniBrowser" and "Tools". Then > loaded the DependencyBrowser, selected a package and gotcha, the > #theClass MNU was raised. > However I wasn't able to debug it (please see the attachement), the > stack isn't displayed in the debugger and some operations (Out, Over, > etc) hang the image and I have interrupt with Alt+. > Cheers > > HernÃ¡n > > 2009/8/14 StÃ©phane Ducasse : >> apparently there was a change in OB and it would be good to understand >> because >> we have some open issues that are related to that. >> >> Stef >> >> >>> Oh, that page was obsolete sorry about that, working with PHP pages is >>&g t; so... fuckin horrible! >>> However that's not the issue here. I need to do a little research to >>> see why the Dependency Browser breaks with mysterious OB stuff? I will >>> update the repository as soon as I find the cause. >>> Thanks for reporting >>> >>> HernÃ¡n >>> >>> 2009/8/13 Â : >>>> Em 13/08/2009 21:34, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand >>>> escreveu: >>>> >>>>> Hi csrabak, >>>>> Thanks for the feedback. I wonder how you've installed the DW? >>>> >>>> I followed >>>> http://cs.hernanmorales.com.ar/projects/dependencyBrowser/DBrowser-fr.php >>>> Â (Overture Pharo) tab (but I bet you _knew_ that ;-)! >>>> >>>> Notice I installed on Pharo1.0beta image. . . and use only >>>> "default" settings. . . >>>> >>>>> Anyone else experi mented this trouble? >>>> >>>> This is something I cannot answer :-( >>>> >>>>> That MNU is fine, the problem is that message should never be sent >>>>> to >>>>> an OBInheritanceDependencyNode. Please note the two leftmost panes >>>>> (columns) in the DependencyBrowser contains system categories or >>>>> "packages", not classes. >>>>> So I've tried to reproduce your problem with the three OB >>>>> installations from Pharo: >>>>> >>>>> ScriptLoader loadOB. >>>>> ScriptLoader loadSuperOB. >>>>> ScriptLoader loadOBAlpha. >>>>> >>>>> selected every system category, gathering all dependencies in your >>>>> Pharo version, and still cannot find that MNU. Can you provide me >>>>> further details about it? >>>>> >>>>> Are you using latest OmniBrowser? >>>> >>>> I do supose so as at the time I wrote the e-mail I had the image >>>> uptodate (#10413). >>>> >>>>> Have you installed the DependencyBrowser with the script of my >>>>> previous e-mail? >>>> >>>> I ran the script of your page. >>>> >>>>> This is happening when you select a particular package? >>>> >>>> Any package will do, but to stick to a simple one I click in >>>> "OmniBrowser" and kaboom! >>>> >>>>> Have you installed additional OB packages? >>>> >>>> I lost the control of what is considered "aditional" wrt to OB. So >>>> I attach the browser of the image I'm testing it: >>>> >>>> HTH >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Cesar Rabak >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > ________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Aug. 15, 2009

[Pharo-project] Seaside Testing in Seaside one click image

by stan shepherd

Hi David, I ran up your most recent Seaside Testing in the one click experience. It works fine, but one of the tests failed, because WAAllTests has been changed. The attached version passes all tests green. Let me know if it requires explanation. Cheers, Stan

Aug. 15, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] #< if at first you dont succeed..

by Igor Stasenko

2009/8/15 Ken.Dickey <Ken.Dickey(a)whidbey.com>: > Taking a hint from the comments (yes, I do listen), here is a "less > complex" :) solution: > > Complex>> > < aNumber > Â Â Â Â "Not defined on Complex numbers" > > Â Â Â Â ^self asReal < aNumber asReal > > Complex>> > asReal > Â Â Â Â "Answer real-part of self if imaginary is zero else, error" > Â Â Â Â (imaginary = 0) > Â Â Â Â ifTrue: [^real] > Â Â Â Â ifFalse: [self error: 'Can''t convert to real'] > > Better? By reading a comment: "Not defined on Complex numbers" i wonder why implementation is different than following: Complex>> < aNumber "Not defined on Complex numbers" self shouldNotImplement ;) But yes, given the fact that Complex numbers could be used by someone in code as real numbers, and therefore expecting #< to work, an implementation proposed by you is plausible. > > -KenD > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Aug. 15, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Fundamentals volume 1

by Henrik Sperre Johansen

On 15.08.2009 04:29, Andres Valloud wrote: > Hello, > > I just published the 400 page book Fundamentals of Smalltalk Programming Technique, volume 1. To some extent it's fitting that I am publishing another book this time of the year. I started writing the Mentoring Course book (of which the Hash book was chapter 7) almost 4 years ago. The three books total about 1200 pages. > > Something I realized with the Mentoring Course book is that I could take advantage of mentoring myself because I had already sharpened several Smalltalk skills. The Fundamentals book talks about these abilities. As with the Mentoring Course book, there is too much material for a single book. Thus, the first volume just published talks about the controlled manipulation of boolean expressions, inheritance, and polymorphism. In fact, there is a continuum of points of view on the subjects, ranging from the goal of producing very little yet highly maintainable code, to the architecture of highly optimized implementations, as well as valuable compromises in between. In fact, at times, it is possible to avoid sacrificing flexibility for speed, or viceversa. > > The second volume will talk about enumeration, recursion, weakness, and optimization. I am sure it will be a fun book to write. In the mean time, enjoy volume 1! > > http://www.lulu.com/content/7451511 > > http://www.lulu.com/avSmalltalkBooks > > Andres. > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > Nice, I loved the two previous ones! Will there be paperback versions availiable at ESUG? Cheers, Henry

Aug. 15, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] #< if at first you dont succeed..

by Ken.Dickey

Taking a hint from the comments (yes, I do listen), here is a "less complex" :) solution: Complex>> < aNumber "Not defined on Complex numbers" ^self asReal < aNumber asReal Complex>> asReal "Answer real-part of self if imaginary is zero else, error" (imaginary = 0) ifTrue: [^real] ifFalse: [self error: 'Can''t convert to real'] Better? -KenD

Aug. 15, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] #< if at first you dont succeed..

by Igor Stasenko

2009/8/15 kend <Ken.Dickey(a)whidbey.com>: > Schwab,Wilhelm K >> You seem determined to have the behavior of Float change when the complex >> package is installed, and there Â are various objections to that from >> multiple people; those objections are well founded. > > My interpretation of the responses I have received is "Change breaks History, > we have a strong history" not "these suggestions are worse approximations to > mathematics". > > I accept the first reasoning for Squeak. Â Squeak supports history (backward > compatible) at the expense of, e.g., ANSI Smalltalk closures. > > Pharo has a slightly different goal set and speaks of "reinventing Smalltalk". > > I believe the changes I suggested better approximate mathematics and logic. > i disagree. As i said earlier, a square root function result is not defined for arguments less than zero in real (R) set. This is strictly mathematical behavior, same as division does not defines a value for zero. Just think about, how many code i could break, if i return an Infinity (or something like this) as a result of division by zero instead of signaling error. > I would prefer to see arguments that I am doing bad math, not that "doing > better math is a change that we don't want". > You not doing bad math or better math, you doing _different_ math. Both could live in parallel, but you proposing to scratch one in favor of other. > Once again, the discussion here implies that the Complex class should be > removed from Pharo-Core into its own Package. > > ====== > BTW, I fail too see the logic that (-4 sqrt) raises an exception but that (-3 > ln) answers a NaN. Â I would expect both cases to raise exceptions. Â Any hints > on why this is the case? Â Perhaps both cases should raise and exception with > the option to load a/the Complex package? > ====== > Good that you noticed such inconsistency. I agree that in both cases these functions should behave similar as well as any other functions which argument(s) lying out of the range(s) defined for them. But again, the behavior of such functions should not change in the presence/absence of Complex numbers. > Thanks again for your thoughtful consideration and input, > -KenD > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Aug. 15, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] New Pharo based on core 10413

by Lawson English

Eagle Offshore wrote: > I just downloaded the 1.0beta on the site and it immediately throws up > a deprecation warning bout initialsPerSe - please use fullNamePerSe > > That makes a poor first impression. > I downloaded the one-click seaside install and ran software update twice and got that error. A pristine seaside copy updated only once, to 10343, doesn't have that error. Lawson

Aug. 15, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] question on browser buttons

by Eagle Offshore

Concur - just downloaded latest image because trying to update from 10391 image results in frozen UI. Also, I preferred the rounded windows and menus. On Aug 14, 2009, at 5:58 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > +1 > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:22 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > > wrote: > +1 > > On Aug 14, 2009, at 8:23 AM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > > > +1 > > > > (They are like this in the latest Pharo image (not Pharo-core)). > > > > Adrian > > > > On Aug 14, 2009, at 01:29 , csrabak(a)bol.com.br wrote: > > > >> I don't see these... which image version and which System Browser > >> are you using? > >> > >> > >> Em 13/08/2009 20:19, Michael Roberts < mike(a)mjr104.co.uk > > escreveu: > >> > >> > >> folks, just wondering what people think about the big 'blue' class > >> browser buttons. Pharo is looking really nice, but i tend to prefer > >> somewhat smaller, plainer buttons. e.g on the test runner, or the > >> preference browser. the browser ones are twice as high! they just > >> seem to stick out a bit. > >> > >> is it easy to switch off these blue buttons, or make all buttons > >> consistent? > >> > >> thanks, > >> Mike > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pharo-project mailing list > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 15, 2009