August 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] Sprint at Lille in October

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guys We are organizing a pharo sprint at Lille the 17->20 of october around pharo. Some of already received an invitation (releated to internal budget questions). Now the sprint is open and you can come one day or several days. If you are interested to participate let me know. We can up to a certain limit fund the stay or the travel. Stef

Aug. 19, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: I checked and I do not find the BitBltPlugin

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Indeed it works so well that we do not imagine :) Stef On Aug 19, 2009, at 9:27 AM, John M McIntosh wrote: > k, there is lots of behaviour in the macintosh Carbon VM explained in > http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com/html/squeakinfoplist.html > which people don't realize is there. > > > On 19-Aug-09, at 12:18 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Thanks john for this nice explanation. We should put it on the web. >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: John M McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> >>> Date: August 19, 2009 8:36:28 AM CEDT >>> To: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> >>> Subject: Re: I checked and I do not find the BitBltPlugin >>> Reply-To: johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com >>> >>> The way this works is that plugins are compiled either into the VM, >>> or as external. >>> For the macintosh carbon VM most plugins are internal, versus for >>> unix they are external. >>> >>> What happens when the plugin is referenced we first look for the >>> plugin as an external plugin, if not found >>> then we look for the plugin as an internal entry point in the VM >>> binary (aka internal plugin). >>> >>> However when for example you stick the bitblit external plugin in >>> either the applications's resource folder >>> or in a folder called Plugins in the same directory as the *.app >>> then it will load the external plugin versus >>> using the internal plugin. >>> >>> So if you had a Plugins folder around it could have seen the bitblit >>> plugin there and override the behavior >>> for bitblt that was compiled in May >>> >>> >>> SqueakPluginsBuiltInOrLocalOnly >>> >>> when set to true makes the lookup logic only consider unix libraries >>> or os-x bundles in >>> the ./Plugins folder in the same directory as the app, or the >>> application Resources folder, >>> or as a foo.framework in the /System/Library/Frameworks/. >>> >>> To turn this feature off and then consider the other 80+ choices of >>> library locations and >>> library names set SqueakPluginsBuiltInOrLocalOnly to false.Turning >>> the feature on >>> avoids a couple of hundred stat calls at startup time as the VM >>> hunts for external versions >>> of internal plugins. It was added to reduce overhead and help the >>> macIntel migration were >>> we provided new universal binaries that live in the application >>> Resources folder since we cann't >>> load powerpc plugins on macintel machines if we found them first in >>> the ./Pugins folder >>> >>> >>> >>> On 18-Aug-09, at 11:21 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> >>>> OK!!!!!! >>>> I was not aware of that optional behavior. >>>> >>>> stef >>>> On Aug 19, 2009, at 12:17 AM, John M McIntosh wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yes it is optional and I did not make it the default. But if you >>>>> download and install it, then it would override the vm behavor >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On 2009-08-18, at 3:13 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr >>>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> in the VM 4.1.1beta2U that I could download from your web page. >>>>>> Is it normal? Now I understand why I got problem with juan code I >>>>>> do not understand how it worked once. >>>>>> May be I got an older vm with the plugin >>>>>> Stef >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> = >>> = >>> = >>> = >>> = >>> = >>> = >>> ==================================================================== >>> John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: >>> squeaker68882 >>> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http:// >>> www.smalltalkconsulting.com >>> = >>> = >>> = >>> = >>> = >>> = >>> = >>> ==================================================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: > squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http:// > www.smalltalkconsulting.com > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 19, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: I checked and I do not find the BitBltPlugin

by John M McIntosh

k, there is lots of behaviour in the macintosh Carbon VM explained in http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com/html/squeakinfoplist.html which people don't realize is there. On 19-Aug-09, at 12:18 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Thanks john for this nice explanation. We should put it on the web. > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: John M McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> >> Date: August 19, 2009 8:36:28 AM CEDT >> To: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> >> Subject: Re: I checked and I do not find the BitBltPlugin >> Reply-To: johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com >> >> The way this works is that plugins are compiled either into the VM, >> or as external. >> For the macintosh carbon VM most plugins are internal, versus for >> unix they are external. >> >> What happens when the plugin is referenced we first look for the >> plugin as an external plugin, if not found >> then we look for the plugin as an internal entry point in the VM >> binary (aka internal plugin). >> >> However when for example you stick the bitblit external plugin in >> either the applications's resource folder >> or in a folder called Plugins in the same directory as the *.app >> then it will load the external plugin versus >> using the internal plugin. >> >> So if you had a Plugins folder around it could have seen the bitblit >> plugin there and override the behavior >> for bitblt that was compiled in May >> >> >> SqueakPluginsBuiltInOrLocalOnly >> >> when set to true makes the lookup logic only consider unix libraries >> or os-x bundles in >> the ./Plugins folder in the same directory as the app, or the >> application Resources folder, >> or as a foo.framework in the /System/Library/Frameworks/. >> >> To turn this feature off and then consider the other 80+ choices of >> library locations and >> library names set SqueakPluginsBuiltInOrLocalOnly to false.Turning >> the feature on >> avoids a couple of hundred stat calls at startup time as the VM >> hunts for external versions >> of internal plugins. It was added to reduce overhead and help the >> macIntel migration were >> we provided new universal binaries that live in the application >> Resources folder since we cann't >> load powerpc plugins on macintel machines if we found them first in >> the ./Pugins folder >> >> >> >> On 18-Aug-09, at 11:21 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >>> OK!!!!!! >>> I was not aware of that optional behavior. >>> >>> stef >>> On Aug 19, 2009, at 12:17 AM, John M McIntosh wrote: >>> >>>> Yes it is optional and I did not make it the default. But if you >>>> download and install it, then it would override the vm behavor >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 2009-08-18, at 3:13 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr >>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> in the VM 4.1.1beta2U that I could download from your web page. >>>>> Is it normal? Now I understand why I got problem with juan code I >>>>> do not understand how it worked once. >>>>> May be I got an older vm with the plugin >>>>> Stef >>> >> >> -- >> = >> = >> = >> = >> = >> = >> ===================================================================== >> John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: >> squeaker68882 >> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http:// >> www.smalltalkconsulting.com >> = >> = >> = >> = >> = >> = >> ===================================================================== >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================

Aug. 19, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] SqueakDBX, Glorp and GlorpDBX loads easily in Pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Excellent! I still think that we can keep MD5 in the image for now since there are 3 classes. Stef On Aug 19, 2009, at 5:15 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > Hi folks: Since latest Pharo version 10418 SqueakDBX, Glorp and > GlorpDBX loads easily in Pharo. The Cryptography package is not need > any more as MD5 was Incorporated in Pharo. > > You must have Installer installed in your image. If you use a Pharo > it should be already installed, however in a core image, you should > install it. The easier way is to just evaluate: > > ScriptLoader new installingInstaller. > > So, this is the summary to load this packages in Pharo: > > SqueakDBX: The loader will load not only SqueakDBX but also FFI. > > Installer ss > project: 'SqueakDBX'; > install: 'SqueakDBXPharoLoader'. > > And then evaluate: > > SqueakDBXPharoLoader loadSqueakDBX > > > > Glorp: This will apply the path to support underscore in selectors, > load Glorp, the GlorpPharoAdaptor and the native PostgreSQL driver. > > Installer ss > project: 'Glorp'; > install: 'GlorpPharoLoader'. > > And then evaluate: > > GlorpPharoLoader loadGlorpWithNativePostgreSQLDriver > > > > GlorpDBX: This will apply the path to support underscore in > selectors, load Glorp and the GlorpPharoAdaptor. Then it will apply > the path to Glorp to support different database drivers (our > refactor) and will load the SqueakDBX Glorp Driver and also will > load SqueakDBX and FFI. You don't nee to explicitly download > SqueakDBX in this case. > > Installer ss > project: 'SqueakDBX'; > install: 'SqueakDBXPharoLoader'. > > And then evaluate: > > SqueakDBXPharoLoader loadGlorpDBX > > > Best, > > Mariano > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 19, 2009

[Pharo-project] Fwd: I checked and I do not find the BitBltPlugin

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks john for this nice explanation. We should put it on the web. Begin forwarded message: > From: John M McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> > Date: August 19, 2009 8:36:28 AM CEDT > To: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > Subject: Re: I checked and I do not find the BitBltPlugin > Reply-To: johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com > > The way this works is that plugins are compiled either into the VM, > or as external. > For the macintosh carbon VM most plugins are internal, versus for > unix they are external. > > What happens when the plugin is referenced we first look for the > plugin as an external plugin, if not found > then we look for the plugin as an internal entry point in the VM > binary (aka internal plugin). > > However when for example you stick the bitblit external plugin in > either the applications's resource folder > or in a folder called Plugins in the same directory as the *.app > then it will load the external plugin versus > using the internal plugin. > > So if you had a Plugins folder around it could have seen the bitblit > plugin there and override the behavior > for bitblt that was compiled in May > > > SqueakPluginsBuiltInOrLocalOnly > > when set to true makes the lookup logic only consider unix libraries > or os-x bundles in > the ./Plugins folder in the same directory as the app, or the > application Resources folder, > or as a foo.framework in the /System/Library/Frameworks/. > > To turn this feature off and then consider the other 80+ choices of > library locations and > library names set SqueakPluginsBuiltInOrLocalOnly to false.Turning > the feature on > avoids a couple of hundred stat calls at startup time as the VM > hunts for external versions > of internal plugins. It was added to reduce overhead and help the > macIntel migration were > we provided new universal binaries that live in the application > Resources folder since we cann't > load powerpc plugins on macintel machines if we found them first in > the ./Pugins folder > > > > On 18-Aug-09, at 11:21 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> OK!!!!!! >> I was not aware of that optional behavior. >> >> stef >> On Aug 19, 2009, at 12:17 AM, John M McIntosh wrote: >> >>> Yes it is optional and I did not make it the default. But if you >>> download and install it, then it would override the vm behavor >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 2009-08-18, at 3:13 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> in the VM 4.1.1beta2U that I could download from your web page. >>>> Is it normal? Now I understand why I got problem with juan code I >>>> do not understand how it worked once. >>>> May be I got an older vm with the plugin >>>> Stef >> > > -- > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: > squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http:// > www.smalltalkconsulting.com > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > > > >

Aug. 19, 2009

[Pharo-project] [ANN] SqueakDBX, Glorp and GlorpDBX loads easily in Pharo

by Torsten Bergmann

Hi Mariano, thanks. I appreciate that someone is looking into RDMBs interfacing and OR-Mapping, although I had'nt yet time to play with all your recent work. Three questions: Whats the state of SqueakDBX (supported DB's, ...) Is PostgreSQL still required for Glorp? What if I want to use Glorp with say SQLite? Any comments on Glorp vs. SqueakSave? Thanks Torsten -- Neu: GMX Doppel-FLAT mit Internet-Flatrate + Telefon-Flatrate fÃ¼r nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02

Aug. 19, 2009

[Pharo-project] Getting started with Seaside 2.9 + pharo

by Torsten Bergmann

Pat Maddox wrote on Pharo-project list >So far getting set up has been quite frustrating and now I'm looking >for some help...I want to start developing Seaside 2.9 on Pharo. How >do I do that? I crosspost this to squeak-dev and seaside too since this question comes up from time to time: If you want to load and use all the latest seaside stuff (Pharo and seaside29) then you should download the newest beta image (non-web) from the pharo download site, see [1]. If you are on win32 you can alternatively use the installer exe to get the full package (including latest VM, fonts, ...), see [2]. If you want you can update the image (according to Damien [3] it is now not only possible to update the core image but also the pharo main image with all the dev-tools, thats the one on the pharo download site) However, in a recent Pharo you can evaluate ScriptLoader loadSeaside29 This internally loads the "LoadOrderTest" (check the class ScriptLoader how its done) from the seaside squeaksource repo ([4]). The load order test is typically updated by the gemstone/seaside developers with the latest seaside 29 packages in the correct order - so it loads the latest seaside 2.9 stuff. Acccording to planetmisc feed it was updated on 17th August (see [5]). so you should get all new packages from Seaside29. Click "OK" when asked to load, NO to run the tests and after loading select "Tools -> More -> Seaside Control Panel" from the world menu. See also [6] This should bring up the new control panel and you can use the context menu to add an adapter on a specific port and run it. If you want you can open Monticello browser on the seaside 29 repo and load newer packages. Have fun Torsten [1] http://pharo-project.org/pharo-download [2] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2009-August/012100.html [3] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2009-August/012048.html [3] http://www.squeaksource.com/Seaside29.html [4] http://planetmisc.squeak.org/ [5] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2009-August/011942.html -- Neu: GMX Doppel-FLAT mit Internet-Flatrate + Telefon-Flatrate fÃ¼r nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02

Aug. 19, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] SqueakDBX, Glorp and GlorpDBX loads easily in Pharo

by Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ Martinez

Congrats Mariano and team, I haven't had the chance to use your work in a project but I follow the progress that the SqueakDBX team is doing. It is good to know that there are ways to connect with RDBS when needed. This adds to the increasing list of packages that work in Pharo and this is very good. Thanks -- Miguel CobÃ¡ http://miguel.leugim.com.mx

Aug. 19, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: OverlyComplex

by Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ Martinez

El miÃ©, 19-08-2009 a las 00:04 -0300, csrabak(a)bol.com.br escribiÃ³: > Em 18/08/2009 22:25, Igor Stasenko < siguctua(a)gmail.com > escreveu: > > >> Em 18/08/2009 20:23, Ken.Dickey < Ken.Dickey(a)whidbey.com > > escreveu: > >> > [snipped] > > >>>> I don't want to be peevish here, but things like: > >>>> >>Note that there is no attempt to change oddities of Smalltalk > syntax. > >>>> >>E.g. > >>>> >> (3 + 1/2i) --> (0 - 2i) NOT (3 + (1/2)i) > >>>> > >>>> indicating that Ken don't realizing completely what is Smalltalk. > >>> > >> > >> Well, this comment was not really a inspired one, when I saw it I > also had > >> hitches to post a question to Igor to understand what was the > complaint... > >> > > > >Because, to my sense, smalltalk having a few, brilliant concepts, and > >one of them is uniform syntax rules. > > I agree 99.9%. > > >If you start adding new rules - it is very likely that you'll make > >things overly complex & redundant. > > Is a risk all languages that evolve and attempt to be all encompassing > run into, and again I'm with you on attemting to avoid this deadly > downward spiral. > > >There are many studies showing that smalltalkers are times more > >productive than developers who using > >"industry" programming languages. Do you think they are all genious? > > I don't want to rain in your party, but I work with benchmarking of > application development for more than ten years and I have to inform > you that this statement does not stand. > > Perhaps when Smalltalk was near its inception and other platforms were > in their infancy this kind of rept could be called by smalltalkers > when buiding complex GUI apps, but right now there is no headway for > Smalltalk... > Maybe you can tell us how much time would you estimate for a java (or better yet, c++) version of Seaside or maybe of GLORP, that were made for a significant part of their initial life for a single person. I *am* times more productive in Smalltalk than in Java or PHP or C, even if I can not show an *enterprise* benchmark the kind of ones that Garner and friends so happily like to show in magazines and flyers. So, a lot of people here can attest that indeed it is more productive to work in Smalltalk taht in other languages, and that is the reason why this *myth* persist. Maybe subjective, maybe not. We know that when we work in Smalltalk and think how much more time/work/effort/boredom will take to do the same on other languages. > Today, due the minute participation of Smalltalk in world production > of new funcionality, you cannot find in any commercial or publicly > available database on productivity (like ISBSG http://www.isbsg.org/) > it mentioned by itself, but only lumped as OTHER 4GL). > > For a more or less uptodate and public reference, give a look at > http://www.qsm.com/?q=resources/function-point-languages-table/index.html > > WTF. From the page: What is a gearing factor? The gearing factor is simply the average number of Source Lines of Code (SLOC) per function point in the completed project. It is calculated by dividing the final code count for a completed project by the final function point count. SLOC counts are logical, not physical line counts. Nuts, is this how the *enterprise* projects are evaluated? That is absolute non-sense. What is the difference between logical and physical line counts? > >Or maybe there is something which > >increasing their productivity? > > As you make the rept "are they all genious", I counter with: would you > accept/believe that all managers who're responsible for development > worldwide are "pointed haired bosses" which cannot discover if such a > thing as 'silver bullet' existed? > > Most productivity is obtained due discipline, processes, trained and > motivated people, and one of the last factors is programming language > syntax. Programming language technology obviously has a role, > otherwise it would be indifferent programming in (say) Smalltalk, > versus (say) assembly. More non-sense, the process isn't a factor. The very same person can do sometimes the same work in a week or in a night with coffee. WE ARE NOT machines producing nails in a predictable, constant over time, unaffected by personal affairs. This factory model doesn't work and has never worked. And the ever increasing complexity and irreal methods created to try to measure people are a sad result of this way of thinking. I believe that the work we do is more akin to the artistic disciplines. Will you try to measure the work done by a musician? or a painter? That is why the pointed haired bosses depiction and Dilbert cartoons are so popular. > > HTH > > -- > > Cesar Rabak > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Miguel CobÃ¡ http://miguel.leugim.com.mx

Aug. 19, 2009

[Pharo-project] [ANN] SqueakDBX, Glorp and GlorpDBX loads easily in Pharo

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi folks: Since latest Pharo version 10418 SqueakDBX, Glorp and GlorpDBX loads easily in Pharo. The Cryptography package is not need any more as MD5 was Incorporated in Pharo. You must have Installer installed in your image. If you use a Pharo it should be already installed, however in a core image, you should install it. The easier way is to just evaluate: ScriptLoader new installingInstaller. So, this is the summary to load this packages in Pharo: SqueakDBX: The loader will load not only SqueakDBX but also FFI. Installer ss project: 'SqueakDBX'; install: 'SqueakDBXPharoLoader'. And then evaluate: SqueakDBXPharoLoader loadSqueakDBX Glorp: This will apply the path to support underscore in selectors, load Glorp, the GlorpPharoAdaptor and the native PostgreSQL driver. Installer ss project: 'Glorp'; install: 'GlorpPharoLoader'. And then evaluate: GlorpPharoLoader loadGlorpWithNativePostgreSQLDriver GlorpDBX: This will apply the path to support underscore in selectors, load Glorp and the GlorpPharoAdaptor. Then it will apply the path to Glorp to support different database drivers (our refactor) and will load the SqueakDBX Glorp Driver and also will load SqueakDBX and FFI. You don't nee to explicitly download SqueakDBX in this case. Installer ss project: 'SqueakDBX'; install: 'SqueakDBXPharoLoader'. And then evaluate: SqueakDBXPharoLoader loadGlorpDBX Best, Mariano

Aug. 19, 2009