August 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Re: Newbie Question (about OOPs, maybe) (sorry)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

why we should get rid of asOop :) http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1074 Begin forwarded message: > From: "David T. Lewis" <lewis(a)mail.msen.com> > Date: August 23, 2009 5:52:25 PM CEDT > To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > > Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Re: Newbie Question (about OOPs, maybe) > (sorry) > Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > > > On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 04:36:24PM +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote: >> On 23.08.2009, at 11:42, Trygve Reenskaug wrote: >>> On 2009.08.22 17:26, Bert Freudenberg wrote: >>>> On 22.08.2009, at 12:39, Trygve Reenskaug wrote: >>>>> In short: >>>>> ? Smalltalk claims to be object oriented and I regard it as a >>>>> serious flaw that the object ID is not explicitly visible. >>>> >>>> What if there simply *is* no object ID? >>> In Smalltalk, a value is a pointer to an object. Bluebook p. 564: >>> "Each object is associated with a unique identifier called its >>> object pointer. ..." >> >> ... digs out Blue Book ... >> >> Yes. This is the VM implementation chapter. IMHO it does not mean an >> OOP has to be accessible from the image as an integer. >> >>> Smalltalk MUST have such unique identifiers to work. I see this >>> pointer as the object's ID. I have seen from the discussion in this >>> track that the VM can actually change this "unique" pointer. >> >> The VM can do anything as long as you can't tell from the image. And >> you can't. OOPs cannot be accessed directly. > > To illustrate the current behavior in Squeak, I used a plugin that > displays OOP values, addresses, etc. Thus: > > (1 to: 100) do: [:e | Array with: e]. "make some garbage" > aString := 'Hello there'. "allocate an object" > aString asOop. => 1422 "identity hash for the object" > OopPlugin oopPrintStringHex: aString. '16r0FF3BE64' "current OOP > value" > OopPlugin machineAddressPrintStringHex: aString. > '16r00002B66BBE8AE54' "C pointer to object header" > Smalltalk garbageCollect. "cause objects to move around in the > object memory" > aString asOop. => 1422 "identity hash remains the same" > OopPlugin oopPrintStringHex: aString. => '16r0FF36954' "OOP value > has changed" > OopPlugin machineAddressPrintStringHex: aString. => > '16r00002B66BBE85944' "object has moved" > > The OOP is a unique identifier for the object at a particular > instant in > time, but the VM is free to change it at any time without telling you. > > Dave > >

Aug. 28, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: about setting and preference.

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I was trying to see a good solution would not be possible to have a family of pragmas which behind the scene creates setting objects? Stef On Aug 27, 2009, at 5:41 PM, Alain Plantec wrote: > StÃ©phane Ducasse a Ã©crit : >> On Aug 27, 2009, at 4:47 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: >> >> >>>> I see. Let us reply alain and we talk about that at ESUG satruday >>>> or >>>> sunday. >>>> >>> Yes, let's do that. I will arrive saturday evening. >>> >> >> Yes it will be a busy week. >> >>>>> Why isn't a setting simply a variable local to the package, and >>>>> the >>>>> setting-description a separate object (method) that can also be >>>>> packaged separately? >>>>> >>>> it is. Normally alain is transforming all preferences into class >>>> variable of the package >>>> then I imagine that we should describe the setting so that a >>>> browser >>>> can browse and >>>> change the value of the setting. The flow should be local to the >>>> class >>>> and not going via >>>> a global like Preference. So probably the setting description >>>> should >>>> be class extension. >>>> But there is something I should understand deeper. >>>> >>> Maybe I am missing something, but to me it looks like the value of >>> the >>> setting is stored within its setting instance. This should be >>> separate, because Seaside for example should not be forced to care >>> about the settings, but an extra package might provide the >>> setting-descriptions to the existing accessors so that the server >>> can >>> be started/stopped through the Pharo preference pane. >>> >> >> Yes! >> > I agree it can be good to clearly separate a setting value from its > specification. > It means that a setting should know how to set/get the > value from an object instead of directly store the value. > I see at least three drawbacks: > (1) the setting declaration is more complex, (2) a setter and a getter > have to be implemented for each setting + the setting specification > (three methods instead of only one) (3) the change notification > feature > is lost (see section 7.2 from the SettingManager comment) > > Cheers > Alain >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 28, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] changes necessary to make merging of squeak trunk in pharo possible

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1096 On Aug 27, 2009, at 10:52 PM, Nicolas Cellier wrote: > Name: Polymorph-Tools-Diff-nice.25 > Author: nice > Time: 27 August 2009, 10:50:11 pm > UUID: c934f7e5-c68f-42c7-9e31-d61b12bfa16f > Ancestors: Polymorph-Tools-Diff-stephane_ducasse.24 > > Made two changes to be able to merge squeak trunk in pharo > Please review and update Polymorph > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 28, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] changes necessary to make merging of squeak trunk in pharo possible

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

thanks for the kick :) please continue kicking us. Stef On Aug 28, 2009, at 10:04 AM, Damien Cassou wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Nicolas > Cellier<nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Name: Polymorph-Tools-Diff-nice.25 >> Author: nice >> Time: 27 August 2009, 10:50:11 pm >> UUID: c934f7e5-c68f-42c7-9e31-d61b12bfa16f >> Ancestors: Polymorph-Tools-Diff-stephane_ducasse.24 >> >> Made two changes to be able to merge squeak trunk in pharo >> Please review and update Polymorph > > Please also open an issue in the tracker if you haven't done it > already. That would ensure that this is not forgotten. > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them > popular by not having them." James Iry > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 28, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Latest dev image on Mac

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Aug 28, 2009, at 10:09 AM, Damien Cassou wrote: > On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:19 AM, StÃ©phane > Ducasse<stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> Why do you udpate a dev image? It is well-know that you should not >> update from a dev. > > As announced in > http://n2.nabble.com/ANN-Updating-a-Pharo-image-is-now-possible-td3408773.h… > , > that should now work out-of-the-box. > > However, the latest addition of David's Package browser has probably > broken this as I saw some overrides there. > >> We will remove the menu. > > > Or better enhance the feature. sure but no time for that (from my side) > > >> Do you have the same problem with a core? > > Good question. no I checked > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them > popular by not having them." James Iry > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 28, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Smalltalks 2009 - Third Smalltalk Conference of Argentina

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

May I suggest a simple modification? It would be better to have a sprint before the conference. and does not mean that a group of coder can code in a room during boring conference talks Then I do not see why we would need a projector. Stef On Aug 24, 2009, at 11:04 PM, Hernan Wilkinson wrote: > Hi Alexander > no problem, I'll ask for a room for that. > > Hernan. > > On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Alexandre Bergel > <alexandre(a)bergel.eu> wrote: > Andres, > > I would like to organize a Pharo Sprint. Do you think a room may be > provided with: enough chair, a white board, a video projector. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On 22 Aug 2009, at 17:46, Andres Valloud wrote: > > > Argentina's third Smalltalk conference, Smalltalks 2009, will be > held > > from November 19th through November 21rd at the Facultad de Ciencias > > Exactas y Naturales (FCEyN), Universidad de Buenos Aires (UBA). > > > > All those connected with Smalltalk, be it faculty, students, > > researchers, developers or entrepreneurs, are invited to > participate, > > free of cost, as presenters and members of the audience. The > > organization committee will announce the registration website > shortly. > > > > The conference's goal is to gather both the Argentine and > > International > > Smalltalk community to get connected sharing our work and experience > > with regards to Smalltalk or related topics. Smalltalks 2009 > > presentations will be divided between the "Industry and Development" > > and > > "Research and Education" categories. In addition, the event will > > host a > > Smalltalk programming contest. As in other editions, well known > > personalities from the international community will attend the > > conference. > > > > The "Research and Education" category is the best match for research > > and > > education work done with Smalltalk in universities and public or > > private > > entities. The "Industry and Development" category is suitable for > > presentations related to Smalltalk software developed by companies > or > > individuals, both public and private. > > > > A list of suggested presentation topics, not exclusive, is below: > > > > * Development tools. > > * Development with prototypes. > > * Model driven development. > > * Agile practices (XP, TDD, etc). > > * Web application development. > > * Metamodeling / metaprogramming. > > * New frameworks or models. > > * Materials for education. > > * Embedded systems and robotics. > > * SOA and web services. > > * Experience reports, both development and research. > > * Commercial systems. > > * Automation and best testing practices. > > * Interoperability with other technologies. > > * Best design and architecture practices. > > > > Interested presenters should keep in mind the following deadline > > schedule. > > > > 1. You must present a summary of the proposed presentation no later > > than Monday, October 19th, 2009. The summary must fit on a single > > page, > > and must include a description, objective, and category of the > work to > > be shown. The submission procedure will be announced shortly. > > > > 2. The conference's program committee will select the event's > > presentations from the proposals submitted according to the above > > procedure by Monday, October 26th. The proposals including dynamic > > examples as opposed to just static presentations will be given > > priority. > > > > 3. The conference schedule will be published in the conference's > > website on Wednesday, October 28th. > > > > 4. The conference's works and presentations will be published in > the > > conference's website after the conference. > > > > Those interested in the coding contest can become familiarized > with it > > at the smalltalks-2009-coding-contest Google group: > > > > smalltalks-2009-coding-contest(a)googlegroups.com > > > > The contest's goal is to have a good time solving a problem in > > Smalltalk, and win a prize while at it. We are working hard to > ensure > > everyone can participate, and we will show examples and prototypes > > that > > can be improved by the participants. > > > > For directions to FCEyN, you can go to the computer science > > department's > > web site: > > > > http://dc.uba.ar > > > > Feel free to share this invitation with those who might be > interested. > > If you have any questions, send us an email at > > > > fundacion (dot) smalltalk (at) gmail (dot) com > > > > See you at the conference! > > Smalltalks 2009 Organization Committee. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 28, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] PBE and OB

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

thanks damien for your patience :) Stef On Aug 28, 2009, at 9:49 AM, Damien Cassou wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Alexandre > Bergel<alexandre(a)bergel.eu> wrote: >> I do not understand what I should do to load the Package Browser. >> Apparently, loadOBAlpha is broken in an updated 414. >> I tried to insert: >> instClass ss >> project: 'EnhancedOB'; >> install: 'OmniBrowser2'; >> install: 'O2-Enhancements'; >> install: 'O2-Morphic'; >> install: 'O2-Standard'. >> >> in loadOBAlpha, but this remains unsuccessful. >> Any hint how I can load your browser in a Core 414? > > As always, this is in the Pharo image because I spent quite some time > finding a working configuration. If you don't want to use Pharo (for a > reason I still don't understand), you may want to have a look at the > install script I add to each zip archive I generate. In it, you will > find the Installer script I use. > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them > popular by not having them." James Iry > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 28, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Latest dev image on Mac

by Damien Cassou

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:19 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse<stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Why do you udpate a dev image? It is well-know that you should not > update from a dev. As announced in http://n2.nabble.com/ANN-Updating-a-Pharo-image-is-now-possible-td3408773.h…, that should now work out-of-the-box. However, the latest addition of David's Package browser has probably broken this as I saw some overrides there. > We will remove the menu. Or better enhance the feature. > Do you have the same problem with a core? Good question. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry

Aug. 28, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] changes necessary to make merging of squeak trunk in pharo possible

by Damien Cassou

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Nicolas Cellier<nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Name: Polymorph-Tools-Diff-nice.25 > Author: nice > Time: 27 August 2009, 10:50:11 pm > UUID: c934f7e5-c68f-42c7-9e31-d61b12bfa16f > Ancestors: Polymorph-Tools-Diff-stephane_ducasse.24 > > Made two changes to be able to merge squeak trunk in pharo > Please review and update Polymorph Please also open an issue in the tracker if you haven't done it already. That would ensure that this is not forgotten. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry

Aug. 28, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] PBE and OB

by Damien Cassou

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Alexandre Bergel<alexandre(a)bergel.eu> wrote: > I do not understand what I should do to load the Package Browser. > Apparently, loadOBAlpha is broken in an updated 414. > I tried to insert: > Â Â Â Â instClass ss > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â project: 'EnhancedOB'; > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â install: 'OmniBrowser2'; > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â install: 'O2-Enhancements'; > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â install: 'O2-Morphic'; > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â install: 'O2-Standard'. > > in loadOBAlpha, but this remains unsuccessful. > Any hint how I can load your browser in a Core 414? As always, this is in the Pharo image because I spent quite some time finding a working configuration. If you don't want to use Pharo (for a reason I still don't understand), you may want to have a look at the install script I add to each zip archive I generate. In it, you will find the Installer script I use. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry

Aug. 28, 2009