July 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Creating install scripts - any tools?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>wrote: > Hello all, > > Are there any tools that help in writing install scripts? I am thinking > along the lines of something that would sniff out all MC packages with me as > author and propose a script to load them. As an optional bonus, it might > put them in the correct order?? I wrote a tool called Migrate to do these > kinds of things for Dolphin, and (if I ever figure it out) will release a > Pharo-friendly version. > I don't know if there is a tool. What I do is create by hand my own script. As a base, I look to the install script that comes with the image (Damien's one) and also to lukas one: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ImageBuildScripts > > Bill > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 10, 2009

[Pharo-project] Creating install scripts - any tools?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Hello all, Are there any tools that help in writing install scripts? I am thinking along the lines of something that would sniff out all MC packages with me as author and propose a script to load them. As an optional bonus, it might put them in the correct order?? I wrote a tool called Migrate to do these kinds of things for Dolphin, and (if I ever figure it out) will release a Pharo-friendly version. Bill

July 10, 2009

[Pharo-project] [ANN] 10374

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Fixing deprecation (since it was not working) Deprecated some methods in Utilities (slowly we will get there) Stef

July 10, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Re: Usability and look-and-feel (was Re: The future ofSqueak & Pharo (was Re: [ANN] Pharo MIT licenseclean))

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, One of my greatest concerns about/for the Squeak community is an overall tone of "*YOU* can't do that because *I* think its's ugly" - or in this case, too slow. So, far be it from me to tell you that you cannot have even a super slow browser that does something you need. That's all the more true when you are doing such great things for Smalltalk and Pharo in particular. I am certainly not suggesting that we remove the browser that helps you make things better. However, I suggest that we consider carefully what we choose as the default tools, or at least give options to those who are finding the current defaults to be slow. Even if we continue with the OB as the default, we could at least have a script somewhere with a comment along the lines of "for a faster (at the expense of features) IDE, evaluate the following:". It appears that we indeed have the alternate tools lurking in the image, so a little advertising might go a long way until we can fix the bottlenecks or Elliot makes a VM that overpowers them. I *think* I am asking only that we advertise the options and perhaps delay cleaning certain parts of the system until the high end tools get a speed boost. Alternately, we could take up a recent suggestion to temporarily disable specific features that are hobbling performance - either way that preserves what you need is fine by me. Is that reasonable? Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 12:41 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Re: Usability and look-and-feel (was Re: The future ofSqueak & Pharo (was Re: [ANN] Pharo MIT licenseclean)) yes probably but I really needed that when curving out etoy On Jul 9, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Michael Rueger wrote: > Lukas Renggli wrote: >>> OUCH!!!! That's quite an example; just for giggles, I started up a >>> 3.9 polymorph image and retraced my steps (via message names, same >>> as in Pharo) and had a prompt reply. After doing that, I found >>> that Pharo (win32) had indeed completed the task. >> >> Again, this has nothing to do with Pharo, OmniBrowser or Polymorph. >> >> This is PackageInfo that is so slow when trying to find out the >> owning package of each of the 6334 methods. If the display of the >> package for every method is removed the sender browser opens almost >> instantly. > > Then we should remove or at least temporarily disable it. The user > doesn't care why something is slow. > > michael > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 10, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: good keybinder

by Esteban Lorenzano

On 2009-07-10 13:16:50 -0300, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> said: > > > Hi all > > I would love to have emacs like end of line and others. > I remember that there were two keybinding frameworks working in Squeak. > It would be great to rescue one and use it in pharo. > Do you have any personal experience with that issue? > > Stef Well... Mars project was born because I was unable to properly program a cmd+w key with keybinder :P but anyway, +1 to a good keybinder :) Esteban

July 10, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Re: Usability and look-and-feel (was Re: The future ofSqueak & Pharo (was Re: [ANN] Pharo MIT licenseclean))

by Brian Brown

On Jul 10, 2009, at 7:27 AM, Keith Hodges wrote: > I don't know if this helps but in MC1.5 Matthew sped up the > PackageInfo > routines for scanning the image by a factor of 10 or so. > Hi Keith, Did you have to modify the API provided to MC, or just refactor the internal implementation in PackageInfo. If the latter it could be quick speedup until PackageInfo is replaced. - Brian > Keith > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 10, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo Sprint at ESUG

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Michael rouger: are you going to be there? I still have some utf problems with my latinamerican keyboard in Linux nobody could reproduce...perhaps we can debug it there (I will have my notebook with me) and see if we find the problem. On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:34 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > yes > On Jul 9, 2009, at 9:55 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > I don't know if I have the experience and knowledge to fix some > > bugs, but as I will be there I would love to have a Pharo sprint and > > help as much as possible. > > > > I think camp is a good place for it. Stef: you wanted to say sunday > > 30 ? > > > > Best, > > > > Mariano > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:47 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > > > wrote: > > Hi all > > > > some of us want to organise a pharo sprint at ESUG and I think it > > would be great to kill > > bug entry. The sunday would be cool. > > > > Stef > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 10, 2009

[Pharo-project] Fwd: good keybinder

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi all I would love to have emacs like end of line and others. I remember that there were two keybinding frameworks working in Squeak. It would be great to rescue one and use it in pharo. Do you have any personal experience with that issue? Stef

July 10, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Re: Usability and look-and-feel (was Re: The future ofSqueak & Pharo (was Re: [ANN] Pharo MIT licenseclean))

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks henrik Probably the package browser is doing too much stuff too. I'm slowly making progress on the new package class (test driven) Stef On Jul 10, 2009, at 10:55 AM, Henrik Sperre Johansen wrote: > On 09.07.2009 23:03, Lukas Renggli wrote: >> >>> OUCH!!!! That's quite an example; just for giggles, I started up >>> a 3.9 polymorph image and retraced my steps (via message names, >>> same as in Pharo) and had a prompt reply. After doing that, I >>> found that Pharo (win32) had indeed completed the task. >>> >> >> Again, this has nothing to do with Pharo, OmniBrowser or Polymorph. >> >> This is PackageInfo that is so slow when trying to find out the >> owning >> package of each of the 6334 methods. If the display of the package >> for >> every method is removed the sender browser opens almost instantly. >> >> Lukas >> >> > Hmmm, really? I do have a fast machine, and it ran in 1,7 seconds > for me, but when I run TimeProfileBrowser on the block (first time, > later runs alot of stuff is already cached and thus won't show up as > prominently if you do TimeProfile on opening a batch of windows ), I > get the following percentages: > - 32% building the dynamic "all" category > - 19% reading all subclass selectors (these are then cached). > - 13% reading the timestamp of the compiledMethods /(these are > then cached) from sources to see if they're recent > - 20% finding extension classes, amongst other things PackageInfo > here spends half that time doing an includes: check with an > OrderedCollection with 174 elements... > -41% building the OB UI. > -7% GC'ing > > A good increase in response time could probably be seen by, as you > said, not selecting all category by default, instead promising of > it's calculation (In VisualWorks anyways, for those who don't know, > it's the same as a fork which returns a value, but blocks if the > value it attempted to be used before it's finished calculated). > > 2 small Performance "bugs" I encountered while checking the methods: > OBPackagesOrClassNode>>addUnpackagedCategories: categories to: pkgs > does: > SystemOrganization categories asSet difference: categories > Looking at what the includes check in difference: is done against, > it's clear the code should be: > SystemOrganization categories difference: categories asSet. > Difference: 500 repetitions in the debugger I had open at the time: > 10866 ms vs 581 ms. (20 times faster) > > PackageInfo >> externalClasses > reads: > myClasses := self classesAndMetaClasses. > then does an includes: check, could add an asSet on end there: > myClasses := self classesAndMetaClasses asSet. > Difference: 500 repetitions in the debugger I had open at the time: > 105444ms vs 11447 ms (9 times faster) > > With these 2 changes, the 20% in finding extension classes was > reduced to 11%. > > Cheers, > Henry > > > > <UseSetForIncludes. > 1.cs>_______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 10, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Re: Usability andlook-and-feel(was Re: The future ofSqueak & Pharo (was Re:[ANN] Pharo MITlicenseclean))

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Adrian, Thanks for the clarification. Taking note of Gary's emphasis of the standard toolset, I dug a little and came up with this: ToolSet default:StandardToolSet. SystemBrowser default:Browser. Does that do the job? Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Adrian Lienhard Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:32 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Re: Usability andlook-and-feel(was Re: The future ofSqueak & Pharo (was Re:[ANN] Pharo MITlicenseclean)) Good question... I was also puzzled because changing the ToolSet does not change the browser. try SystemBrowser askForDefault or directly do SystemBrowser default: Browser Cheers, Adrian On Jul 9, 2009, at 23:41 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Dumb question: what part of ToolSet askForDefault makes the actual > change to the default? My real question is what would I do to script > setting the standard tool set as the default? > > Bill > > > ________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr > ] On Behalf Of Gary Chambers > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 12:30 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Re: Usability andlook- > and-feel(was Re: The future ofSqueak & Pharo (was Re:[ANN] Pharo > MITlicenseclean)) > > Ouch! Wonder why... > (2.8 Quad core here, Vista 64bit SP1, 4GB ram, Pharo-core-10371, Arial > 10 fonts via FreeType *StandardToolSet*, image backgound (clownfish)). > > 260ms is best time recorded. > > Regards, Gary > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Benoit St-Jean<mailto:bstjean@yahoo.com> > To: > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge. > inria.fr > > > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 6:05 PM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Re: Usability andlook- > and-feel(was Re: The future ofSqueak & Pharo (was Re:[ANN] Pharo > MITlicenseclean)) > > If that helps, I get 7316ms !! > > Pharo0.1 > Latest update: #10373 > > On Windows XP, SP3 > Dual Core, 3GHz, 2Gb RAM > > Vanilla Pharo image with FFI & ODBC packages loaded. > > > ----------------- > Benoit St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Blog: lamneth.wordpress.com > A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero. > (Albert Einstein) > > > ________________________________ > From: Gary Chambers > <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com<mailto:gazzaguru2@btinternet.com > >> > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2009 1:01:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Re: Usability and > look-and-feel(was Re: The future ofSqueak & Pharo (was Re: [ANN] Pharo > MITlicenseclean)) > > As I mentioned on squeak-dev... > With the StandardToolSet I get 300ms or less... > > Regards, Gary > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Damien Cassou" > <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com<mailto:damien.cassou@gmail.com > >> > To: "Pharo Development" > <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge > .inria.fr > >>; "David > RÃ¶thlisberger" <roethlis(a)iam.unibe.ch<mailto:roethlis@iam.unibe.ch>> > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 5:22 PM > Subject: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Re: Usability and > look-and-feel(was Re: The future ofSqueak & Pharo (was Re: [ANN] Pharo > MITlicenseclean)) > > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Andreas Raab <andreas.raab(a)gmx.de<mailto:andreas.raab@gmx.de>> >> Date: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 5:40 PM >> Subject: [squeak-dev] Re: Usability and look-and-feel (was Re: The >> future ofSqueak & Pharo (was Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Pharo MIT >> licenseclean)) >> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list >> <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org<mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeak >> foundation.org >> >> >> >> >> >> [ToolSet default browse: Behavior selector: nil] timeToRun. >> >> On my box this takes 506 msecs in Squeak 3.10, using Pharo it's at >> 5020 msecs. That's 10x slower. >> >> >> -- >> Damien Cassou >> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >> >> "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them >> popular by not having them." James Iry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge >> .inria.fr >> > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge. > inria.fr > > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > ________________________________ > [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/ca/iotg_search.jpg]Yahoo! > Canada Toolbar : Search from anywhere on the web and bookmark your > favourite sites. Download it now! <http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com/> > > ________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 10, 2009