July 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] Graphical Objects

by Brad Fuller

Hi All, I just looked at Pharo and it's nice and organized. Wow! I was wondering if anyone has ported the graphical objects window from mainline squeak - the selection from the main menu "objects" which creates a morph of a variety of objects to choose for drawing, scripting and displaying (with Rectangles, Book, Image, Text, Multimedia submenu, etc.) -- Brad Fuller +1 (408) 335-0112

July 14, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: Cleanups?

by Benoit St-Jean

Shouldn't some of this stuff be cleaned (cache clearing, nilling instances/singletons, etc) in the #shutDown method ? ----------------- Benoit St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Blog: lamneth.wordpress.com A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero. (Albert Einstein) ________________________________ From: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> To: Pharo Development <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 6:13:00 AM Subject: [Pharo-project] Fwd: Cleanups? Begin forwarded message: From: pharo-project-owner(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >Date: July 14, 2009 12:06:37 PM CEDT >To: stephane.ducasse(a)free.fr >Subject: Cleanups? > >You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has >been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are >being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at >pharo-project-owner(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr. > > > >From: stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)free.fr> > >Date: July 14, 2009 12:06:29 PM CEDT > >To: Pharo Development <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > >Subject: Cleanups? > > >which reminds me that I want to integrate the "cleanUp" freespace methods of keith. > >Stef > > >From: Ken G. Brown <kbrown <at> mac.com> >Subject: Re: image maintenance & cleanup methods >Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general >Date: 2009-07-14 01:02:12 GMT (9 hours and 1 minute ago) >Have any more cleanup methods been added to this list? >I was just adding some things to <http://installer.pbworks.com/FreeSomeSpace> > >Ken G. Brown > >At 4:01 AM -0800 2/12/09, squeak-dev-request <at> lists.squeakfoundation.org apparently wrote: >>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:13:50 -0800 >>From: John M McIntosh <johnmci <at> smalltalkconsulting.com> >>Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] ditching Monticello objects. >>To: Keith Hodges <keith_hodges <at> yahoo.co.uk> >>Cc: The general-purpose Squeak developers list >><squeak-dev <at> lists.squeakfoundation.org> >>Message-ID: >><B07FF75B-07C4-4C3F-ABB9-E6397B70AC73 <at> smalltalkconsulting.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes >> >>Ok, well I did >> >>I've been collecting lists of pruning methods so.. >> >>ScrollBar initializeImagesCache. >>GradientFillStyle initPixelRampCache. >>NaturalLanguageFormTranslator classPool at: #CachedTranslations put: >>nil. >>NaturalLanguageTranslator resetCaches. >>PartsBin clearThumbnailCache. >>PaintBoxMorph classPoolat: #ColorChart put: nil. >>PaintBoxMorph classPool at: #Prototype put: nil. >>ImageMorph classPool at: #DefaultForm put: (Form extent: 1 <at> 1 depth: 1). >>Utilities classPool at: #ScrapsBook put: nil. >>Project allInstancesDo: [ :each | each setThumbnail: nil ]. >>ScriptingSystem stripGraphicsForExternalRelease. >>ProjectHistory currentHistory initialize. >>Utilities zapUpdateDownloader. >>Smalltalk forgetDoIts. >>Behavior flushObsoleteSubclasses. >>CommandHistory allInstancesDo: #initialize. >>ChangeSorter removeChangeSetsNamedSuchThat: [ :each | true ]. >>ChangeSet resetCurrentToNewUnnamedChangeSet. >>MethodChangeRecord allInstancesDo: [ :x | x noteNewMethod: nil ]. >>RequiredSelectors initialize. >>ProvidedSelectors initialize. >>LocalSends initialize. >>SendCaches initializeAllInstances. >>Utilities cleanseOtherworldlySteppers. >>Smalltalk organization removeEmptyCategories. >>Browser initialize. >>SMSqueakMap default purge. >>SystemBrowser removeObsolete. >>TheWorldMenu removeObsolete. >>AppRegistry removeObsolete. >>FileServices removeObsolete. >>MCFileBasedRepository flushAllCaches. >>MCDefinition clearInstances. >>Undeclared removeUnreferencedKeys. >>Smalltalk flushClassNameCache. >>3 timesRepeat: [ Smalltalk garbageCollect. Symbol compactSymbolTable ]. >>Set rehashAllSets. >>Smalltalk garbageCollect. >> >> >> >>I added these ones. >> >>ChangeSorter initializeChangeSetCategories. >>MCWorkingCopy inspect. >>MCRepositoryGroup inspect. >>MCCacheRepository inspect. >> >>and cleaned up the class instance variables & any class vars via the >>inspect. >> >>That removed all the MC packages and MC http repositories from the MC >>Browser >> >>gave me back 4 megabytes of image space. >> >>Well brute force, still 4 mb wonderful to get back this late in the >>project. >> >> >>On 11-Feb-09, at 6:18 PM, Keith Hodges wrote: >> >>> John M McIntosh wrote: >>>> I'm building an image for a limited memory hardware platform. >>>> >>>> At the point here where I want to *deploy* things and I can see that >>>> various parts of Monticello >>>> are consuming well over a megabyte of memory to retain MCVersionInfo >>>> instances, MCMethodDefinition(s), time stamps, uuids, etc etc >>>> >>>> I'm wondering if anyone has some code to strip all that out thus >>>> returning I suspect a couple of MB back for more constructive usage? >>> You may want to look into the cleanUp/freeSomeSpace conventions. MC1.5 >>> has a few implemented. There are many more available from >>> http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7244 >>> >>> Keith >> >>-- >>= >>= >>= >>======================================================================== >>John M. McIntosh <johnmci <at> smalltalkconsulting.com> >>Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com >>= >>= >>= >>======================================================================== > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet ExplorerÂ® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/

July 14, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo Sprint at ESUG

by Mariano Martinez Peck

I updated http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/PharoSprints On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com > wrote: > I don't know if I have the experience and knowledge to fix some bugs, but > as I will be there I would love to have a Pharo sprint and help as much as > possible. > > I think camp is a good place for it. Stef: you wanted to say sunday 30 ? > > Best, > > Mariano > > > > On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:47 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> Hi all >> >> some of us want to organise a pharo sprint at ESUG and I think it >> would be great to kill >> bug entry. The sunday would be cool. >> >> Stef >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > >

July 14, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo-Dev/web Image slowness

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com > wrote: > Hi all, > > 2009/7/14 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > >> Users don't know the details and they don't care. If they open a Pharo > >> image and its slow, then this just gives a bad impression. If people > >> start telling each other "Pharo is slow", we will loose reputation > >> that is very hard to win back. > > > +9999999999999999999999999999 > > +1 to that. > > > I recommend Pharo to a lot of people that was using Squeak and this is > the > > first thing they told me and the first thing that happens. It doesn't > matter > > how many fixes you did, or closures or traits. If you open a browser and > > takes 1 seconds. You close it. You even don't see all of the real > features. > > And as Andrian says, they doesn't know why it is slow, or how to have a > > faster Pharo . They don't know what to remove or whateever. > > > > Please, we are loosing gays for this topic. > > An guys too ;-) hehehehe sorry. You understood me :) > > > >> So I suggest to either disable the features that make the browser slow > >> so that it is snappy again or to replace it with the version Lukas is > >> using until it is fast enough. > > > > As I said, +999999999999999999999 > > +1 > > > Regards, > > -- > Esteban. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 14, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo-Dev/web Image slowness

by Esteban A. Maringolo

Hi all, 2009/7/14 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: >> Users don't know the details and they don't care. If they open a Pharo >> image and its slow, then this just gives a bad impression. If people >> start telling each other "Pharo is slow", we will loose reputation >> that is very hard to win back. > +9999999999999999999999999999 +1 to that. > I recommend Pharo to a lot of people that was using Squeak and this is the > first thing they told me and the first thing that happens. It doesn't matter > how many fixes you did, or closures or traits. If you open a browser and > takes 1 seconds. You close it. You even don't see all of the real features. > And as Andrian says, they doesn't know why it is slow, or how to have a > faster Pharo . They don't know what to remove or whateever. > > Please, we are loosing gays for this topic. An guys too ;-) >> So I suggest to either disable the features that make the browser slow >> so that it is snappy again or to replace it with the version Lukas is >> using until it is fast enough. > > As I said, +999999999999999999999 +1 Regards, -- Esteban.

July 14, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo-Dev/web Image slowness

by Esteban A. Maringolo

Hi Stef, 2009/7/14 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > Hi estaban [SNIP] >> As a side note, I downloaded the latest Cuis image from http://www.jvuletich.org/Cuis/Index.html >> , and its amazingly fast. > As a side note. We do not consider ourselves in competition with Cuis. > We integrated more than 1500 bug fixes and improvements (pragmas, > closure compiler, traits....) and even more if we consider the version > used in Cuis. I know you're not competition, just put the example as a comparison of how fast a minimum image can run on actual hardware. I know Pharo is a superior alternative, with not only speed in mind. And I like its objective. > We support truetype fonts and we are cleaning the system, when the > cruft will be removed we will probably focus on making it faster. I understand, it just surprised me that an alpha release was such slow, as somebody said below its simple dissuasive to "give Pharo a try now it's alpha" and find that. > We are rewriting Package info from scratch. > Now it takes time but feel free to join. I hope to contribute with something, even if it's just a bug report/fix. Regards, -- Esteban.

July 14, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo-Dev/web Image slowness

by Mariano Martinez Peck

. > > Users don't know the details and they don't care. If they open a Pharo > image and its slow, then this just gives a bad impression. If people > start telling each other "Pharo is slow", we will loose reputation > that is very hard to win back. > +9999999999999999999999999999 I recommend Pharo to a lot of people that was using Squeak and this is the first thing they told me and the first thing that happens. It doesn't matter how many fixes you did, or closures or traits. If you open a browser and takes 1 seconds. You close it. You even don't see all of the real features. And as Andrian says, they doesn't know why it is slow, or how to have a faster Pharo . They don't know what to remove or whateever. Please, we are loosing gays for this topic. > > So I suggest to either disable the features that make the browser slow > so that it is snappy again or to replace it with the version Lukas is > using until it is fast enough. As I said, +999999999999999999999 > > > > Cheers, > Adrian > > > On Jul 14, 2009, at 11:49 , Michael Rueger wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 11:47 AM, StÃ©phane > > Ducasse<stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> take the core image. > >> The default tools in web dev are too slow right now. > > > > Maybe we should point that out somewhere as we promote the dev-images > > as being "Pharo"? > > As we can see from some of the discussion on the Squeak list people > > then think Pharo in general is dog slow... > > > > Michael > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 14, 2009

[Pharo-project] default setting for Squeak-dev

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Damien could you bench if the browser is faster when you disable the dynamic protocol? Stef

July 14, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] feedback

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jul 14, 2009, at 1:44 PM, David RÃ¶thlisberger wrote: > >> - I feel the word Group a bit misleading. It does not say much >> actually, especially since I am intended to use it all the time. > > yeah, I agree. > What about 'working set'? 'active set'? 'active pkgs'? not packages for sure working set is good > >> - Going from Group to hierarchy, and hierarchy -> Group does not >> preserve the selection. This is a crucial point in my opinion. > > ok, will fix this. > >> - I feel the browser is a bit slower than before > > hm. Doing what exactly is slower? Working with the package view > should actually be a > bit faster now. > I'm not aware of anything that could have become slower. >

July 14, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo-Dev/web Image slowness

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Yes david is working on that. I removed the package in senders and 'm working on a replacement for Package info (but not for tomorrow), Stef On Jul 14, 2009, at 12:30 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > We really need to change this situation. > > As Lukas pointed out, its not the OmniBrowser implementation that is > slow. There are some extended features of OmniBrowser that use > computation intensive or inefficient parts of the system like > PackageInfo. I really appreciate all these cool new features, but if > they make the browser slow, they defeat the whole purpose. > > Users don't know the details and they don't care. If they open a Pharo > image and its slow, then this just gives a bad impression. If people > start telling each other "Pharo is slow", we will loose reputation > that is very hard to win back. > > So I suggest to either disable the features that make the browser slow > so that it is snappy again or to replace it with the version Lukas is > using until it is fast enough. > > > Cheers, > Adrian > > > On Jul 14, 2009, at 11:49 , Michael Rueger wrote: > >> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 11:47 AM, StÃ©phane >> Ducasse<stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> take the core image. >>> The default tools in web dev are too slow right now. >> >> Maybe we should point that out somewhere as we promote the dev-images >> as being "Pharo"? >> As we can see from some of the discussion on the Squeak list people >> then think Pharo in general is dog slow... >> >> Michael >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 14, 2009