July 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Where declared global reside... how can they be removed?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Sig, Thanks. I don't see an option, but I am using the standard toolset. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Igor Stasenko Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 11:09 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Where declared global reside... how can they be removed? 2009/7/17 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>: > Sig, > > Is there a way to disable the implicit temps? Â That would be great, because it IS an error waiting to happen. > look for them in the workspace menu. > Bill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Igor > Stasenko > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:07 AM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Where declared global reside... how can they be removed? > > 2009/7/17 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>: >> John, >> >> As Sig already said, globals should be used sparingly. Â You should >> read about workspace variables. Â Personally, I can't stand them, but >> others like them and you might too. Â You can also define temporaries >> in a workspace, something like >> >> | mySquare | >> mySquare := Morph new. >> ... >> >> The problem (or feature, depending on your perspective) is that mySquare will go away as soon as the expressions are evaluated, unless you inspect it or otherwise take steps to keep it around. Â Workspace variables will stick around, which is why they end up irritating me. Â I also do not like the implicit definition of them; it's easy to slip spelling, and instead of getting a syntax error, you get broken code, which is the _real_ reason I do not like them. >> > yeah.. implicit temps - this is what i disabling at first place when using workspaces. > IMO, it is very error prone feature. > >> Welcome to Smalltalk, and to the list. Â Enjoy! >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of >> John Escobedo >> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 7:22 PM >> To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Subject: [Pharo-project] Where declared global reside... how can they be removed? >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> I'm new to both Smalltalk and especially to Pharo (and this mailing list). >> I have a very basic question and would like to be directed to more info or a different mailing list if appropriate. >> >> For most tutorials (I'm using squeak tutorials), one does a lot of work in a workspace. >> >> If I make a new global variable such as: >> >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â MySquare := Morph new >> >> ...once I define "MySquare" as a global variable I know I can send it many messages like: >> >> >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â MySquare openInWorld >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â MySquare color: Color yellow >> >> When I'm done and I close the workspace, save the image and save the image. Â When I open it again it will know what "MySquare" is known in any workspace. >> >> How do I remove "MySquare" and/or the associated object? >> How could I see or find other such global variables? >> >> - John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 17, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Call for testers of a faster MC

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jul 17, 2009, at 6:23 PM, Douglas Brebner wrote: > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> The problem doug is that it is unclear if all the features are needed >> and what is the status of the implementation. I do not know what are >> orphanage, scripts, upgrade upgrade, file....... > > Well, it was my understanding that this version of MC, PackageInfo and > Installer were the ones which were intended to become the portable > versions that all Squeak forks would use. Well yes this is the intention of keith. It was a bold challenge. Now if you look at Installer you get a lot of things you do not need. >> We just did not update to MC1.5 because we are idiot or blind. > > I never claimed you were :( I did not mean you did :) this was a subliminal message to others :) > >> First we were focusing on something else and also when something is >> working for you then it is difficult to try something new and risky >> since it can stall the complete process. I do not even know what LFP >> is doing in our back. > > As I understand it, this approach only upgrades Installer, > PackaageInfo > and Monticello, it doesn't include the rest of LPF. > >> Now the key point is that if somebody in the pharo community stand up >> and take the **huge** and painful job to have a **real** look at >> MC1.5/1.6 and to be here as a fireman then there is a chance that we >> use it. Not just saying yes it works (which is already a challenge as >> I noticed it these days). > > Yes, but my response was only to do with solving the the loading > problem > you had. Not that every MC problem had been solved :) ;) Anyway this is a long way to go but we should go there step by step. Welcome to pharo. > >> >> Stef >> >> >> >>> StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>>> I checked a bit but actualClassIn: in MC1.6 depends on >>>> MCMethodDefinition having theClass as instanceVariable. >>>> >>>> The results of this experience is clearly showing me that merging >>>> between fork is nearly impossible. I already lost some days on >>>> that issues and I think that we will stay with a slow MC for now. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Isn't the version loaded by the following code from my other mail >>> the already merged version of 1.5/1.6? (I believe that 1.6 is just >>> 1.5 with atomic loading enabled) >>> >>> Preferences enable: #allowBlockArgumentAssignment. Preferences >>> disable: #raiseDepreciatedWarnings. Installer upgrade upgrade. >>> Installer install: 'UpgradeMonticelloBootstrap'. > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 17, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Call for testers of a faster MC

by Douglas Brebner

StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > The problem doug is that it is unclear if all the features are needed > and what is the status of the implementation. I do not know what are > orphanage, scripts, upgrade upgrade, file....... Well, it was my understanding that this version of MC, PackageInfo and Installer were the ones which were intended to become the portable versions that all Squeak forks would use. > We just did not update to MC1.5 because we are idiot or blind. I never claimed you were :( > First we were focusing on something else and also when something is > working for you then it is difficult to try something new and risky > since it can stall the complete process. I do not even know what LFP > is doing in our back. As I understand it, this approach only upgrades Installer, PackaageInfo and Monticello, it doesn't include the rest of LPF. > Now the key point is that if somebody in the pharo community stand up > and take the **huge** and painful job to have a **real** look at > MC1.5/1.6 and to be here as a fireman then there is a chance that we > use it. Not just saying yes it works (which is already a challenge as > I noticed it these days). Yes, but my response was only to do with solving the the loading problem you had. Not that every MC problem had been solved :) > > Stef > > > >> StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> I checked a bit but actualClassIn: in MC1.6 depends on >>> MCMethodDefinition having theClass as instanceVariable. >>> >>> The results of this experience is clearly showing me that merging >>> between fork is nearly impossible. I already lost some days on >>> that issues and I think that we will stay with a slow MC for now. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> Isn't the version loaded by the following code from my other mail >> the already merged version of 1.5/1.6? (I believe that 1.6 is just >> 1.5 with atomic loading enabled) >> >> Preferences enable: #allowBlockArgumentAssignment. Preferences >> disable: #raiseDepreciatedWarnings. Installer upgrade upgrade. >> Installer install: 'UpgradeMonticelloBootstrap'.

July 17, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Where declared global reside... how can they be removed?

by Igor Stasenko

2009/7/17 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>: > Sig, > > Is there a way to disable the implicit temps? Â That would be great, because it IS an error waiting to happen. > look for them in the workspace menu. > Bill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Igor Stasenko > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:07 AM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Where declared global reside... how can they be removed? > > 2009/7/17 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>: >> John, >> >> As Sig already said, globals should be used sparingly. Â You should >> read about workspace variables. Â Personally, I can't stand them, but >> others like them and you might too. Â You can also define temporaries >> in a workspace, something like >> >> | mySquare | >> mySquare := Morph new. >> ... >> >> The problem (or feature, depending on your perspective) is that mySquare will go away as soon as the expressions are evaluated, unless you inspect it or otherwise take steps to keep it around. Â Workspace variables will stick around, which is why they end up irritating me. Â I also do not like the implicit definition of them; it's easy to slip spelling, and instead of getting a syntax error, you get broken code, which is the _real_ reason I do not like them. >> > yeah.. implicit temps - this is what i disabling at first place when using workspaces. > IMO, it is very error prone feature. > >> Welcome to Smalltalk, and to the list. Â Enjoy! >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of John >> Escobedo >> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 7:22 PM >> To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Subject: [Pharo-project] Where declared global reside... how can they be removed? >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> I'm new to both Smalltalk and especially to Pharo (and this mailing list). >> I have a very basic question and would like to be directed to more info or a different mailing list if appropriate. >> >> For most tutorials (I'm using squeak tutorials), one does a lot of work in a workspace. >> >> If I make a new global variable such as: >> >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â MySquare := Morph new >> >> ...once I define "MySquare" as a global variable I know I can send it many messages like: >> >> >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â MySquare openInWorld >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â MySquare color: Color yellow >> >> When I'm done and I close the workspace, save the image and save the image. Â When I open it again it will know what "MySquare" is known in any workspace. >> >> How do I remove "MySquare" and/or the associated object? >> How could I see or find other such global variables? >> >> - John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

July 17, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] KnownLands: a Class dependency explorer

by Alexandre Bergel

Hi David, > BTW if you want to experiment with other visualization you also have > mondrian which starts to work well on pharo. > > For some reason it doesn't load in any of my images, but I think > that has more to do more with my images being highly non-standard > for other reasons. I will be interested in knowing what are the problem you're facing in installing Mondrian. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

July 17, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Another Pharo wallpaper

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Wow...excellent news!!! Seems Smalltalks this year will be really greate! On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu>wrote: > Yes!! > > Alexandre > > > On 17 Jul 2009, at 11:05, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > > I plan to come so we can do a nice hacking party at Buenos aires :) > > > >> > >> This would be awesome! I think there will be a lot of people > >> interested in a Pharo sprint here. > >> Do you plan to come to smalltalks this year Alexandre? > >> > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Alexandre > >> > >> > >> On 15 Jul 2009, at 14:54, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > >> > >>> But this is ARGENTINIAN!!!! > >>> > >>> As I am building a tourism website I am collecting pictures. I found > >>> one of a Pharo in a Argentinian province called "Tierra del Fuego". > >>> The pharo is known as "Faro Les Eclaireurs". > >>> > >>> I attach the picture. > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> > >>> Mariano > >>> <Faro Les > >>> Eclaireurs.jpg>_______________________________________________ > >>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >> > >> -- > >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pharo-project mailing list > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pharo-project mailing list > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 17, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Another Pharo wallpaper

by Alexandre Bergel

Yes!! Alexandre On 17 Jul 2009, at 11:05, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > I plan to come so we can do a nice hacking party at Buenos aires :) > >> >> This would be awesome! I think there will be a lot of people >> interested in a Pharo sprint here. >> Do you plan to come to smalltalks this year Alexandre? >> >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> >> >> On 15 Jul 2009, at 14:54, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >> >>> But this is ARGENTINIAN!!!! >>> >>> As I am building a tourism website I am collecting pictures. I found >>> one of a Pharo in a Argentinian province called "Tierra del Fuego". >>> The pharo is known as "Faro Les Eclaireurs". >>> >>> I attach the picture. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Mariano >>> <Faro Les >>> Eclaireurs.jpg>_______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

July 17, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Another Pharo wallpaper

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I plan to come so we can do a nice hacking party at Buenos aires :) > > This would be awesome! I think there will be a lot of people > interested in a Pharo sprint here. > Do you plan to come to smalltalks this year Alexandre? > > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On 15 Jul 2009, at 14:54, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > But this is ARGENTINIAN!!!! > > > > As I am building a tourism website I am collecting pictures. I found > > one of a Pharo in a Argentinian province called "Tierra del Fuego". > > The pharo is known as "Faro Les Eclaireurs". > > > > I attach the picture. > > > > Best, > > > > Mariano > > <Faro Les > > Eclaireurs.jpg>_______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 17, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Call for testers of a faster MC

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

The problem doug is that it is unclear if all the features are needed and what is the status of the implementation. I do not know what are orphanage, scripts, upgrade upgrade, file....... We just did not update to MC1.5 because we are idiot or blind. First we were focusing on something else and also when something is working for you then it is difficult to try something new and risky since it can stall the complete process. I do not even know what LFP is doing in our back. Now the key point is that if somebody in the pharo community stand up and take the **huge** and painful job to have a **real** look at MC1.5/1.6 and to be here as a fireman then there is a chance that we use it. Not just saying yes it works (which is already a challenge as I noticed it these days). Stef > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> I checked a bit but actualClassIn: in MC1.6 depends on >> MCMethodDefinition having theClass as instanceVariable. >> >> The results of this experience is clearly showing me that merging >> between fork is nearly impossible. >> I already lost some days on that issues and I think that we will stay >> with a slow MC for now. >> >> >> > Isn't the version loaded by the following code from my other mail the > already merged version of 1.5/1.6? (I believe that 1.6 is just 1.5 > with > atomic loading enabled) > > Preferences enable: #allowBlockArgumentAssignment. > Preferences disable: #raiseDepreciatedWarnings. > Installer upgrade upgrade. > Installer install: 'UpgradeMonticelloBootstrap'. > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 17, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Call for testers of a faster MC

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

ok >> That's why the only effective way is to use as is, and contribute >> to the > package in an external repository. If you don't then everyone is stuck > with a version that cannot move forward. That's where we were three > years ago. > > The version in squeaksource.com/mc has moved forward, in the same > way as > Pharo has unashamedly moved forward. > Feel free to adopt squeaksource.com/mc as your own if you want to, I > wont be contributing to it for a long long while if ever. > > May I invite someone to feel free to maintain the InstallerScripts for > loadinging mc1.5 into Pharo, it used to work > > Keith > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 17, 2009