July 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Just a little point

by Benoit St-Jean

Chers amis, dÃ©solÃ© pour l'anglais mais comme je voulais que tous les principaux intÃ©ressÃ©s comprennent mon point de vue, j'ai choisi l'anglais! Okay guys, let's put things in perspective here... Pharo isn't at war with Squeak and vice-versa... Just like any kid, it just wants to "live it's own life" and somehow, somewhat, slowly progress and become a little bit different from its parents, here namely Squeak. If find it weird that 2 Smalltalk implementations/communities, so close to each other like Squeak and Pharo, go to great lengths at flaming each other... Don't you find it weird that such discussions don't happen between VisualWorks and Dolphin, between VisualAge and GNU Smalltalk, etc ? We're from the same family. Okay, we're all a bit different different but, deep inside, we're so the same. I'm a happy Smalltalker who's daily job involves VisualWorks, Dolphin and VisualAge. In my spare time, I'm happy "squeaking" and "pharoing". Can't we just respect each other's goals/ambitions/dreams and try to find some communality and try to stay "not too far from each other and benefit from each other" instead of starting a "cold war" that will only leave us isolated, both in our own camps ? I'm puzzled! What do I do if I like both? Choose my camp or abandon them both ? ----------------- Benoit St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Blog: lamneth.wordpress.com A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero. (Albert Einstein) ________________________________ From: Keith Hodges <keith_hodges(a)yahoo.co.uk> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2009 12:28:09 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Just a little point Keith Hodges wrote: >> so I'm laughing when people suggest that we are predators. >> >> > I am still counting your contributions back to the packages which you > are using, which are public domain, and have public repositories... > > answer zero > > Its not even a technical issue, you have chosen a philosophically predatory stance from the outset. "We will make our own image, without any concern for giving back to those who made it possible" The number of times I have heard, we are changing this that or the other, and if you want the improvement "you can port it if you want to", completely illustrates my point. Those who made the contributions that you are using probably expected that any improvements to their efforts would be fed back to them in a form that they could make use of. It is the main reason for companies to make their code open source, because they anticipate some reciprocation from those who benefit, and thus the benefit is mutual, and might offset the considerable cost of development. And in case you are wondering, the public repository for the community to work towards improving SUnit, ( squeaksource/Testing ) does include #assert:equals: Keith _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.

July 7, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] ESUG early registration dead-line

by Noury Bouraqadi

Note that we have 21 nominations for the Awards, which is the new record! :-) On 7 juil. 09, at 18:10, Noury Bouraqadi wrote: > Dear Smalltalkers, > > The dead-line for ESUG 2009 early registration is 13th of july. > So, hurry up and to join the 75 people that had already registered. > We have a great program with many interesting talks. > See the list http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2009/Current+List+of > +Talks > > The demos are promising too. Check out the list of nominated > software to the ESUG Innovation Technology Awards: > http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2009/Innovation+Technology+Awards/Nominatio… > Dr. Noury Bouraqadi http://vst.ensm-douai.fr/noury/ -------------- -ESUG 17th International Smalltalk Conference - Brest, France, August 31 - September 4, 2009 http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2009 -17Ã¨mes JournÃ©es Francophones sur les SystÃ¨mes Multi-Agents (JFSMAâ09). Lyon, 19-21 Octobre 2009 http://bat710.univ-lyon1.fr/~sycosma/JFSMA09/

July 7, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Just a little point

by Keith Hodges

Keith Hodges wrote: >> so I'm laughing when people suggest that we are predators. >> >> > I am still counting your contributions back to the packages which you > are using, which are public domain, and have public repositories... > > answer zero > > Its not even a technical issue, you have chosen a philosophically predatory stance from the outset. "We will make our own image, without any concern for giving back to those who made it possible" The number of times I have heard, we are changing this that or the other, and if you want the improvement "you can port it if you want to", completely illustrates my point. Those who made the contributions that you are using probably expected that any improvements to their efforts would be fed back to them in a form that they could make use of. It is the main reason for companies to make their code open source, because they anticipate some reciprocation from those who benefit, and thus the benefit is mutual, and might offset the considerable cost of development. And in case you are wondering, the public repository for the community to work towards improving SUnit, ( squeaksource/Testing ) does include #assert:equals: Keith

July 7, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Just a little point

by Keith Hodges

> so I'm laughing when people suggest that we are predators. > I am still counting your contributions back to the packages which you are using, which are public domain, and have public repositories... answer zero Keith

July 7, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Just a little point

by Keith Hodges

StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi guys > > After all the mails in Squeak-dev and all these nice words or explicit > suggestions about us been assholes, destructors... > whatever :) I would like to share with you my mindset to you. > Might I please request that you read english, no such explicit statement was ever made. Keith

July 7, 2009

[Pharo-project] [ANN] ESUG early registration dead-line

by Noury Bouraqadi

Dear Smalltalkers, The dead-line for ESUG 2009 early registration is 13th of july. So, hurry up and to join the 75 people that had already registered. We have a great program with many interesting talks. See the list http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2009/Current+List+of+Talks The demos are promising too. Check out the list of nominated software to the ESUG Innovation Technology Awards: http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2009/Innovation+Technology+Awards/Nominatio… Regards, Noury http://vst.ensm-douai.fr/noury/ -------------- -ESUG 17th International Smalltalk Conference - Brest, France, August 31 - September 4, 2009 http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2009 -17Ã¨mes JournÃ©es Francophones sur les SystÃ¨mes Multi-Agents (JFSMAâ09). Lyon, 19-21 Octobre 2009 http://bat710.univ-lyon1.fr/~sycosma/JFSMA09/

July 7, 2009

[Pharo-project] Just a little point

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guys After all the mails in Squeak-dev and all these nice words or explicit suggestions about us been assholes, destructors... whatever :) I would like to share with you my mindset to you. We do not want a war, nor world domination. :) We are doing pharo because Smalltalk deserves a good and beautiful opensource implementation. Our goal is not to kill Squeak. Our goal is to provide a vehicule on top of which people can invent their future been it - multimedia - seaside - kids - research We need a place to expand beauty. We want that students can get enthusiast about Smalltalk and not turned down by some ugly code. We want an agile system with lot of tests, comments, clean code, driven bit a lot of good software engineering practices. I really thank the people that trust us. Stef PS: I'm one the guy that wrote 3 squeak book, 1 seaside book (coming soon), translated etoys in french, so I'm laughing when people suggest that we are predators.

July 7, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] OB, Completion and class variables (when used on the class side)

by Damien Cassou

Hi Torsten, please open an issue and attach Romain Robbes to it. Thank you On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Torsten Bergmann<astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Hi there, > > try the following in the new pharo-dev: > > - create a package in OBBrowser > - create a class "Foo" and add a class variable "Bar" to it > - start typing a class side method by typing > > Â Â initBar > Â Â Â "a class side method to init the class variable" > Â Â Â Bar > > directly after "Bar" hit space and then press Tab to start > with the completion. Â -> you get a DNU (Undefined object DNU > #classPool) in ECClassVarTypeGuesser>>MethodRefs ... > > Bye > Torsten > > > > -- > Neu: GMX Doppel-FLAT mit Internet-Flatrate + Telefon-Flatrate > fÃ¼r nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02 > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry

July 7, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] A drag n drop example

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jul 7, 2009, at 4:02 PM, FranÃ§ois Tanguy wrote: > Great ! > Did you receive my fax last week for the licence agreement ? I'm travelling (too much) so I do not know. But thanks in advance :) Stef > > Francois > > On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 3:51 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > > wrote: > Yes! > You can publish it in the TaskForces > may be in the future we should have PharoExample :) > > Stef > > On Jul 7, 2009, at 3:29 PM, FranÃ§ois Tanguy wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > I was playing around with the drag&drop stuff in Pharo and I came to > > create a package with four classes as an example to show how to use > > drag&drop features. > > > > Are you interested in that example ? > > Can we integrate that code somewhere ? > > > > Francois > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 7, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] SUnit assert:equals:

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

please go ahead. I thought we got assert:equals: Somebody should also have a look at SUnitExtensions one of these days. On Jul 7, 2009, at 3:58 PM, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > I seem to recall that we added TestCase>>assert:eauals: to SUnit, but > now I cannot find it. > > It would be really useful to get decent error messages from equality > tests (instead of "test failed", we would get "expected X but got Y"). > > Does anyone know what the story is? > > If it exists somewhere, I would like to add it to Pharo. > > If it doesn't exist anywhere, I would like to add it to Pharo. > > - on > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 7, 2009