June 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] space analysis

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> "SpaceTally new printSpaceAnalysis: 1 on: 'space.txt'".

June 11, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: First try of Pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

tx torsten could you come up with a little text that we could put on the pharo-project web site to explain to people how to get the news without been flooded by emails :)? Stef > > > BTW: If you are afraid of the traffic on the mailinglist just > subscribe > but set option to not get emails. Then you can browse the archive > to read but still post questions. See [3] > > > [1] http://pharo-project.org/download > [2] https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/22410/setup_pharo_0.0.0.3.exe > [3] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2009-June/009617.html > -- > GMX FreeDSL Komplettanschluss mit DSL 6.000 Flatrate und > Telefonanschluss > fÃ¼r nur 17,95 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02 > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

June 11, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] a plea for "save and quit"

by Tudor Girba

Hi, I like very much the idea of Save as to provide the new version name by default. But, I have there is a usability problem with "Save and quit" being spatially close to "Quit". The difference between is quite large, and you want to use them for very different scenarios: - I want to use "Quit" and not save when I perform experiment changes on objects that I do not want to keep with me (for example when I have some expensive computation and then want to play with some variation at the end). - You would want to use "Save and quit" typically when you work on code and want to keep it The problem is that because they are close, it will be easy to click on the other one by mistake (it happens all the time with long menu and small fonts). So, if you really want to reintroduce "Save and quit" it should at least not be close to "Quit". A minimal defense would be a separator between "Save and quit" and "Quit": "Save" "Save as..." "Save and quit" ----- "Quit" But, here is another idea. In VisualWorks we introduced a small add-on that prompts you to save the image after publishing in the repository, and when closing the image. Like this we instill the good practice of publishing and saving the code so that even if the image crashes, you are in sync with the repository. So, as a result you can always quit without saving. Would it not be better to prompt for saving the image after you save something in a Monticello repository? Cheers, Doru On 11 Jun 2009, at 09:46, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > OK, here again the proposal of Lukas that I think is the best so far. > > --------- > "Save" > "Save as..." > "Save and quit" > "Quit" > --------- > > The behavior of "Save as..." would be modified to automatically pick > the next version number (but still lets you edit the file name). Like > this, "Save as next version" is not needed anymore. > > Adrian > > > On Jun 11, 2009, at 09:25 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> No preference. Preferences are for the weak :) >> We want to have design decision no absence of decision by preference >> plague. >> So guys come up with a good solution and we will use it but no >> preference. >> >> So I could not understand the proposals except this one: >> >> >> >> -'Save' >> -'Save ...' -> 'Save as', 'Save as new version', 'Save and Quit' >> -'Quit' >> >> >> So could you use this pattern to explain what you think/want? >> >> Stef >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- www.tudorgirba.com "The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal."

June 11, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] a plea for "save and quit"

by Adrian Lienhard

OK, here again the proposal of Lukas that I think is the best so far. --------- "Save" "Save as..." "Save and quit" "Quit" --------- The behavior of "Save as..." would be modified to automatically pick the next version number (but still lets you edit the file name). Like this, "Save as next version" is not needed anymore. Adrian On Jun 11, 2009, at 09:25 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > No preference. Preferences are for the weak :) > We want to have design decision no absence of decision by preference > plague. > So guys come up with a good solution and we will use it but no > preference. > > So I could not understand the proposals except this one: > > > > -'Save' > -'Save ...' -> 'Save as', 'Save as new version', 'Save and Quit' > -'Quit' > > > So could you use this pattern to explain what you think/want? > > Stef > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

June 11, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] a plea for "save and quit"

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

which could also be from what I understand > -'Save and Quit' > -'Save ...' -> 'Save', 'Save as ', 'Save as new version' > -'Quit' On Jun 11, 2009, at 9:25 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > No preference. Preferences are for the weak :) > We want to have design decision no absence of decision by preference > plague. > So guys come up with a good solution and we will use it but no > preference. > > So I could not understand the proposals except this one: > > > > -'Save' > -'Save ...' -> 'Save as', 'Save as new version', 'Save and Quit' > -'Quit' > > > So could you use this pattern to explain what you think/want? > > Stef > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

June 11, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] a plea for "save and quit"

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

No preference. Preferences are for the weak :) We want to have design decision no absence of decision by preference plague. So guys come up with a good solution and we will use it but no preference. So I could not understand the proposals except this one: -'Save' -'Save ...' -> 'Save as', 'Save as new version', 'Save and Quit' -'Quit' So could you use this pattern to explain what you think/want? Stef

June 11, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] a plea for "save and quit"

by Adrian Lienhard

Why not Lukas' proposal? Other mails argued that we should not add "save and quit" because it increases the menu size. But with Lukas' suggestion the number of menu items stay the same, hence this argument does not hold. Mike argued he needs "save as new version" at least once a day. This is not lost as "Save as" does the trick. Adrian On Jun 11, 2009, at 02:28 , Nicolas Cellier wrote: > How to customize the menus? > Customization == Preference, OK these are synonyms. > > Among the propositions so far: > 1) override a method > 2) some specific hard-wired Preferences > 3) automatic > > some drawbacks: > 1) require maintenance at each update > 2) why a Preference for an item and not another ? > 3) changing menus are painful (MS lacks some inertia for sure...) > > So far, I agree on 4) keep a simple static menu > ...unless customization be accessible right from the menu (halos?) > rather than from an obscure path. > And easily undo-able (for example, items could be there but just > undisplayed...) > > Nicolas > > > 2009/6/11 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: >> what about having a preference to enable/disable "save and quite" >> from menu? >> >> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Brian Brown >> <brian(a)ablelinktech.com> wrote: >>> >>> On Jun 10, 2009, at 2:56 PM, Michael Rueger wrote: >>> >>>> Nicolas Cellier wrote: >>>>> What about auto-adaptative menus learning your habits. >>>>> >>>>> X most used items on top. >>>>> Y often used items following. >>>>> Every other less used items in submenus. >>>> >>>> you mean the most horrible idea MS ever had, changing menus? >>>> >>>> -10^age of the universe ;-) >>>> >>> >>> Hah! I agree wholeheartedly. Changing menus are not fun. >>> >>> I use Save and Quit all the time... this is starting to smell like a >>> preference. If you want super short menus, then turn it off, if you >>> want the convenience, then have it on... >>> >>> what say? >>> >>> - Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

June 11, 2009

[Pharo-project] [FIX] Issues 686+877

by Serge Stinckwich

To integrate in Pharo : http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=686 http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=877 -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)] http://doesnotunderstand.org/

June 11, 2009

[Pharo-project] [update] #10333

by Marcus Denker

#10333 Issue 138: check #isResumable Issue 848: TextMorph>>xeqLinkText:withParameter: Issue 667: obsolete methods in TheWorldMenu Issue 651: remove DoCommandOnceMorph Issue 636: Undeclared ScriptEditorMorph Issue 635: Undeclared nonEmptyDict Issue 792: [ ] newProcessWith: is missing in closure image Issue 698: InvalidDirectoryError should not implement defaultAction Issue 683: Cleaning TheWorldMainMenuDockingBar -- Marcus Denker - http://marcusdenker.de PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

June 11, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] a plea for "save and quit"

by Nicolas Cellier

How to customize the menus? Customization == Preference, OK these are synonyms. Among the propositions so far: 1) override a method 2) some specific hard-wired Preferences 3) automatic some drawbacks: 1) require maintenance at each update 2) why a Preference for an item and not another ? 3) changing menus are painful (MS lacks some inertia for sure...) So far, I agree on 4) keep a simple static menu ...unless customization be accessible right from the menu (halos?) rather than from an obscure path. And easily undo-able (for example, items could be there but just undisplayed...) Nicolas 2009/6/11 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > what about having a preference to enable/disable "save and quite" from menu? > > On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Brian Brown <brian(a)ablelinktech.com> wrote: >> >> On Jun 10, 2009, at 2:56 PM, Michael Rueger wrote: >> >> > Nicolas Cellier wrote: >> >> What about auto-adaptative menus learning your habits. >> >> >> >> X most used items on top. >> >> Y often used items following. >> >> Every other less used items in submenus. >> > >> > you mean the most horrible idea MS ever had, changing menus? >> > >> > -10^age of the universe ;-) >> > >> >> Hah! I agree wholeheartedly. Changing menus are not fun. >> >> I use Save and Quit all the time... this is starting to smell like a >> preference. If you want super short menus, then turn it off, if you >> want the convenience, then have it on... >> >> what say? >> >> - Brian >> >> >> >> >> > Michael >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pharo-project mailing list >> > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

June 11, 2009