June 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] multiple native windows

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

thanks john stef On Jun 11, 2009, at 8:40 PM, John M McIntosh wrote: > I'll note the Ffenestri.zip has both the Ffenestri and the HostMenu > os- > x logic in it. > You'll need to be careful and only integrate the Ffenestri logic since > the HostMenu logic > already was integrated into Pharo and was updated for the new sensor > logic so likely loading > the "HostMenus-Base.2.cs" for example will break your image. > > On 11-Jun-09, at 11:35 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> <Ffenestri.zip> > > -- > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: > squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http:// > www.smalltalkconsulting.com > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

June 11, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] multiple native windows

by John M McIntosh

I'll note the Ffenestri.zip has both the Ffenestri and the HostMenu os- x logic in it. You'll need to be careful and only integrate the Ffenestri logic since the HostMenu logic already was integrated into Pharo and was updated for the new sensor logic so likely loading the "HostMenus-Base.2.cs" for example will break your image. On 11-Jun-09, at 11:35 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > <Ffenestri.zip> -- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================

June 11, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] multiple native windows

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jun 11, 2009, at 8:27 PM, Steve Wirts wrote: > I thought it was someone's name at first :) > > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3862 > > This looks right to me, thanks for the heads up stef. I don't see > where there is any code available however. A concrete starting > point might be with vm primitives for creating and controlling > native windows; once these are in place, it is a matter of creating > a small pharo codebase to manage the OS resources(ffenestria), and > drawing to them through primitives via the GraphicsContext > (bitblitting of course). I would think that most everything in > morphic would continue to work as is. > > does this make sense? > > If the primitives existed, I could help out, but not being a c/c++ > programmer I am at a disadvantage here. > > > 2009/6/11 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> > what is ffenestria? links? > > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 3:45 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > > wrote: > > > > Would it be ok if this was configurable via a user preference, > > meaning pharo supported both? > > sure. > > > A VisualWorks multiple-native-window capability would open up the > > possibility of creating a different class of applications. Alot of > > my work revolves around integration with legacy systems. Having a > > smalltalk with multiple native windows would allow me to more > > seamlessly introduce it into the world of tools at my company. > > I really think that if somebody would work on ffenestria we would > integrate it. > > > > > > > thanks > > sw > > > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu > > > wrote: > > > > I used Visualworks and Squeak, and frankly, I prefer to have > embedded > > morphic windows in a unique native window, as it is now in Pharo. > > Application switching is easier in my opinion and I do not feel a > need > > to have an email clients between two code browsers. > > As the discussion on save and quit testified, people have radically > > different habits when programming. Even for simple things. > > Interesting. > > > > Cheers, > > Alexandre > > > > > > On 11 Jun 2009, at 10:58, Steve Wirts wrote: > > > > > If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to > > > create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to > > > take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/ > > > elegantly with multiple windows. > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com > > > > wrote: > > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger(a)acm.org> > > > wrote: > > > > Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I > > > > think?). > > > > > > Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the > > > wishes of the user. > > > > > > -- > > > Damien Cassou > > > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > > > > > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them > > > popular by not having them." James Iry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pharo-project mailing list > > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- > project > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pharo-project mailing list > > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- > project > > > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

June 11, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] multiple native windows

by Steve Wirts

I thought it was someone's name at first :) http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3862 This looks right to me, thanks for the heads up stef. I don't see where there is any code available however. A concrete starting point might be with vm primitives for creating and controlling native windows; once these are in place, it is a matter of creating a small pharo codebase to manage the OS resources(ffenestria), and drawing to them through primitives via the GraphicsContext (bitblitting of course). I would think that most everything in morphic would continue to work as is. does this make sense? If the primitives existed, I could help out, but not being a c/c++ programmer I am at a disadvantage here. 2009/6/11 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> > what is ffenestria? links? > > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 3:45 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> >> >> > Would it be ok if this was configurable via a user preference, >> > meaning pharo supported both? >> >> sure. >> >> > A VisualWorks multiple-native-window capability would open up the >> > possibility of creating a different class of applications. Alot of >> > my work revolves around integration with legacy systems. Having a >> > smalltalk with multiple native windows would allow me to more >> > seamlessly introduce it into the world of tools at my company. >> >> I really think that if somebody would work on ffenestria we would >> integrate it. >> >> > >> > >> > thanks >> > sw >> > >> > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu >> > > wrote: >> > >> > I used Visualworks and Squeak, and frankly, I prefer to have embedded >> > morphic windows in a unique native window, as it is now in Pharo. >> > Application switching is easier in my opinion and I do not feel a need >> > to have an email clients between two code browsers. >> > As the discussion on save and quit testified, people have radically >> > different habits when programming. Even for simple things. >> > Interesting. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Alexandre >> > >> > >> > On 11 Jun 2009, at 10:58, Steve Wirts wrote: >> > >> > > If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to >> > > create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to >> > > take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/ >> > > elegantly with multiple windows. >> > > >> > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou < >> damien.cassou(a)gmail.com >> > > > wrote: >> > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger(a)acm.org> >> > > wrote: >> > > > Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I >> > > > think?). >> > > >> > > Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the >> > > wishes of the user. >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Damien Cassou >> > > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >> > > >> > > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them >> > > popular by not having them." James Iry >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Pharo-project mailing list >> > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Pharo-project mailing list >> > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > >> > -- >> > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pharo-project mailing list >> > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pharo-project mailing list >> > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

June 11, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] multiple native windows

by Mariano Martinez Peck

what is ffenestria? links? On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 3:45 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > > > > Would it be ok if this was configurable via a user preference, > > meaning pharo supported both? > > sure. > > > A VisualWorks multiple-native-window capability would open up the > > possibility of creating a different class of applications. Alot of > > my work revolves around integration with legacy systems. Having a > > smalltalk with multiple native windows would allow me to more > > seamlessly introduce it into the world of tools at my company. > > I really think that if somebody would work on ffenestria we would > integrate it. > > > > > > > thanks > > sw > > > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu > > > wrote: > > > > I used Visualworks and Squeak, and frankly, I prefer to have embedded > > morphic windows in a unique native window, as it is now in Pharo. > > Application switching is easier in my opinion and I do not feel a need > > to have an email clients between two code browsers. > > As the discussion on save and quit testified, people have radically > > different habits when programming. Even for simple things. > > Interesting. > > > > Cheers, > > Alexandre > > > > > > On 11 Jun 2009, at 10:58, Steve Wirts wrote: > > > > > If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to > > > create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to > > > take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/ > > > elegantly with multiple windows. > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou < > damien.cassou(a)gmail.com > > > > wrote: > > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger(a)acm.org> > > > wrote: > > > > Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I > > > > think?). > > > > > > Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the > > > wishes of the user. > > > > > > -- > > > Damien Cassou > > > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > > > > > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them > > > popular by not having them." James Iry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pharo-project mailing list > > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pharo-project mailing list > > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

June 11, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] multiple native windows

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> Would it be ok if this was configurable via a user preference, > meaning pharo supported both? sure. > A VisualWorks multiple-native-window capability would open up the > possibility of creating a different class of applications. Alot of > my work revolves around integration with legacy systems. Having a > smalltalk with multiple native windows would allow me to more > seamlessly introduce it into the world of tools at my company. I really think that if somebody would work on ffenestria we would integrate it. > > > thanks > sw > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu > > wrote: > > I used Visualworks and Squeak, and frankly, I prefer to have embedded > morphic windows in a unique native window, as it is now in Pharo. > Application switching is easier in my opinion and I do not feel a need > to have an email clients between two code browsers. > As the discussion on save and quit testified, people have radically > different habits when programming. Even for simple things. > Interesting. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On 11 Jun 2009, at 10:58, Steve Wirts wrote: > > > If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to > > create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to > > take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/ > > elegantly with multiple windows. > > > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com > > > wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger(a)acm.org> > > wrote: > > > Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I > > > think?). > > > > Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the > > wishes of the user. > > > > -- > > Damien Cassou > > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > > > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them > > popular by not having them." James Iry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

June 11, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] a plea for "save and quit"

by Ramon Leon

> OK, here again the proposal of Lukas that I think is the best so far. > > --------- > "Save" > "Save as..." > "Save and quit" > "Quit" > --------- > > The behavior of "Save as..." would be modified to automatically pick > the next version number (but still lets you edit the file name). Like > this, "Save as next version" is not needed anymore. > > Adrian +1 I use save and quit more than any of the others, it was just the wrong one to remove. -- Ramon Leon http://onsmalltalk.com

June 11, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] multiple native windows

by Alexandre Bergel

In Newspeak, a dedicated icon enable to switch mode. Quite convenient. Cheers, Alexandre On 11 Jun 2009, at 12:02, Steve Wirts wrote: > Would it be ok if this was configurable via a user preference, > meaning pharo supported both? > A VisualWorks multiple-native-window capability would open up the > possibility of creating a different class of applications. Alot of > my work revolves around integration with legacy systems. Having a > smalltalk with multiple native windows would allow me to more > seamlessly introduce it into the world of tools at my company. > > thanks > sw > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu > > wrote: > > I used Visualworks and Squeak, and frankly, I prefer to have embedded > morphic windows in a unique native window, as it is now in Pharo. > Application switching is easier in my opinion and I do not feel a need > to have an email clients between two code browsers. > As the discussion on save and quit testified, people have radically > different habits when programming. Even for simple things. > Interesting. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On 11 Jun 2009, at 10:58, Steve Wirts wrote: > > > If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to > > create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to > > take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/ > > elegantly with multiple windows. > > > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com > > > wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger(a)acm.org> > > wrote: > > > Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I > > > think?). > > > > Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the > > wishes of the user. > > > > -- > > Damien Cassou > > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > > > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them > > popular by not having them." James Iry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

June 11, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] multiple native windows

by Steve Wirts

Would it be ok if this was configurable via a user preference, meaning pharo supported both? A VisualWorks multiple-native-window capability would open up the possibility of creating a different class of applications. Alot of my work revolves around integration with legacy systems. Having a smalltalk with multiple native windows would allow me to more seamlessly introduce it into the world of tools at my company. thanks sw On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu>wrote: > > I used Visualworks and Squeak, and frankly, I prefer to have embedded > morphic windows in a unique native window, as it is now in Pharo. > Application switching is easier in my opinion and I do not feel a need > to have an email clients between two code browsers. > As the discussion on save and quit testified, people have radically > different habits when programming. Even for simple things. > Interesting. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On 11 Jun 2009, at 10:58, Steve Wirts wrote: > > > If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to > > create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to > > take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/ > > elegantly with multiple windows. > > > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com > > > wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger(a)acm.org> > > wrote: > > > Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I > > > think?). > > > > Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the > > wishes of the user. > > > > -- > > Damien Cassou > > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > > > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them > > popular by not having them." James Iry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

June 11, 2009

[Pharo-project] [update] #10334

by Marcus Denker

#10334 ====== Issue 877: Collection>>isZero use deprecatedDescrition: instead of deprecated Issue 686: Remove dice methods in Random Issue 631: API Consistency on MIMEDocument -- Marcus Denker - http://marcusdenker.de PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

June 11, 2009