May 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Crypt ... Libraries ...

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Yes I agree. Stef On May 29, 2009, at 12:02 AM, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote: > At Tue, 26 May 2009 10:09:58 -0600, > Brian Brown wrote: >> >>> Do you really think, he really cares about his former code >>> contribution to a system, which from the beginning was free and >>> open? >> >> So anytime you want to, you can just decide what someone else's >> intention for their code contribution was and do what you want? Each >> person owns his own code, and Pharo has to be careful and have actual >> permission to use the code they distribute. > > I have nothing important to add here. and like the idea of having > Pharo 1.0 clean and be careful. But in my humble opinion, yes, > *probably* Richard's intention was to make his code be free and open, > as he released it under the Squeak License, which is fairly liberal, > and he didn't complain when it is distributed in that way for a long > time. > > The sad part is that we as the developers are made to think that > being overly defensive is the right position... > > -- Yoshiki > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 29, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] struggeling along

by Carlos Crosetti

GemTools: pointers? -----Mensaje original----- De: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr]En nombre de Dale Henrichs Enviado el: Jueves, 28 de Mayo de 2009 09:11 p.m. Para: Reg Krock CC: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Asunto: Re: [Pharo-project] struggeling along The 2.3.1 preview one-click is based on the dev image for 10243 and I use 10259 at work, both work fine for GemTools usage. Dale ----- "Reg Krock" <rkrock(a)locksleycreeksoftware.com> wrote: | Which version of Pharo would you recommend? | | Reg | | On 28-May-09, at 5:15 PM, Dale Henrichs wrote: | | > Norbert, | > | > I would recommend using an older version of Pharo for GemTools - the | | > one-click GemTools 2.3.1 preview (based on an earlier version of | > Pharo) is the best option, in my opinion. | > | > I am waiting for the rate of change to slow down a bit, before | > trying GemTools on the latest version of Pharo. | > | > On the other hand if you get GemTools running, let me know and I'll | | > take it for a whirl:) | > | > Dale | > | > ----- "Norbert Hartl" <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: | > | > | Hi, | > | | > | I can't really follow the mailing list so some of these might | > | already known and fixed. I just tried to install a gemtools | > | client from universe. I'm using the latest pharo-dev. | > | | > | Installing FFI brought up an syntax error because there is | > | an attempt writing to a temp. Did this change with the | > | closures? I think this is fixed by the version some can load | > | via the ScriptLoader. | > | | > | Next I encountered a problem with MIMEDocument. I think it | > | is Issue-631. There is an incorrect usage of the MIMEDocument | > | interface. I changed it but wanted to store it in PharoInbox | > | but my image crashes if I try to. | > | | > | It is: | > | | > | Segmentation fault | > | | > | -1178673304 UUID>initialize | > | -1178673420 Behavior>new: | > | -1178673512 >new | > | | > | I updated my vm to exupery-0.15.1 but still has the same | behaviour. | > | | > | I attached a patch for the MIMEDocument issue on Issue-631. | > | | > | Than I met InputSensor. InputSensor default returns an instance | > | of InputEventSensor. This looks just strange to me. Is this | right? | > | | > | Norbert | > | | > | | > | _______________________________________________ | > | Pharo-project mailing list | > | Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | > | | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | > | > _______________________________________________ | > Pharo-project mailing list | > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | > | | Reg Krock | rkrock(a)locksleycreeksoftware.com _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.12.11/2089 - Release Date: 30/04/2009 05:53 p.m.

May 29, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] struggeling along

by Dale Henrichs

The 2.3.1 preview one-click is based on the dev image for 10243 and I use 10259 at work, both work fine for GemTools usage. Dale ----- "Reg Krock" <rkrock(a)locksleycreeksoftware.com> wrote: | Which version of Pharo would you recommend? | | Reg | | On 28-May-09, at 5:15 PM, Dale Henrichs wrote: | | > Norbert, | > | > I would recommend using an older version of Pharo for GemTools - the | | > one-click GemTools 2.3.1 preview (based on an earlier version of | > Pharo) is the best option, in my opinion. | > | > I am waiting for the rate of change to slow down a bit, before | > trying GemTools on the latest version of Pharo. | > | > On the other hand if you get GemTools running, let me know and I'll | | > take it for a whirl:) | > | > Dale | > | > ----- "Norbert Hartl" <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: | > | > | Hi, | > | | > | I can't really follow the mailing list so some of these might | > | already known and fixed. I just tried to install a gemtools | > | client from universe. I'm using the latest pharo-dev. | > | | > | Installing FFI brought up an syntax error because there is | > | an attempt writing to a temp. Did this change with the | > | closures? I think this is fixed by the version some can load | > | via the ScriptLoader. | > | | > | Next I encountered a problem with MIMEDocument. I think it | > | is Issue-631. There is an incorrect usage of the MIMEDocument | > | interface. I changed it but wanted to store it in PharoInbox | > | but my image crashes if I try to. | > | | > | It is: | > | | > | Segmentation fault | > | | > | -1178673304 UUID>initialize | > | -1178673420 Behavior>new: | > | -1178673512 >new | > | | > | I updated my vm to exupery-0.15.1 but still has the same | behaviour. | > | | > | I attached a patch for the MIMEDocument issue on Issue-631. | > | | > | Than I met InputSensor. InputSensor default returns an instance | > | of InputEventSensor. This looks just strange to me. Is this | right? | > | | > | Norbert | > | | > | | > | _______________________________________________ | > | Pharo-project mailing list | > | Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | > | | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | > | > _______________________________________________ | > Pharo-project mailing list | > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | > | | Reg Krock | rkrock(a)locksleycreeksoftware.com

May 29, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] struggeling along

by Reg Krock

Which version of Pharo would you recommend? Reg On 28-May-09, at 5:15 PM, Dale Henrichs wrote: > Norbert, > > I would recommend using an older version of Pharo for GemTools - the > one-click GemTools 2.3.1 preview (based on an earlier version of > Pharo) is the best option, in my opinion. > > I am waiting for the rate of change to slow down a bit, before > trying GemTools on the latest version of Pharo. > > On the other hand if you get GemTools running, let me know and I'll > take it for a whirl:) > > Dale > > ----- "Norbert Hartl" <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > | Hi, > | > | I can't really follow the mailing list so some of these might > | already known and fixed. I just tried to install a gemtools > | client from universe. I'm using the latest pharo-dev. > | > | Installing FFI brought up an syntax error because there is > | an attempt writing to a temp. Did this change with the > | closures? I think this is fixed by the version some can load > | via the ScriptLoader. > | > | Next I encountered a problem with MIMEDocument. I think it > | is Issue-631. There is an incorrect usage of the MIMEDocument > | interface. I changed it but wanted to store it in PharoInbox > | but my image crashes if I try to. > | > | It is: > | > | Segmentation fault > | > | -1178673304 UUID>initialize > | -1178673420 Behavior>new: > | -1178673512 >new > | > | I updated my vm to exupery-0.15.1 but still has the same behaviour. > | > | I attached a patch for the MIMEDocument issue on Issue-631. > | > | Than I met InputSensor. InputSensor default returns an instance > | of InputEventSensor. This looks just strange to me. Is this right? > | > | Norbert > | > | > | _______________________________________________ > | Pharo-project mailing list > | Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > Reg Krock rkrock(a)locksleycreeksoftware.com

May 29, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Crypt ... Libraries ...

by Carlos Crosetti

David, congrats, would you share some screenshots or website? -----Mensaje original----- De: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr]En nombre de Stephane Ducasse Enviado el: Martes, 26 de Mayo de 2009 12:56 p.m. Para: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; david.mitchell(a)gmail.com Asunto: Re: [Pharo-project] Crypt ... Libraries ... On May 26, 2009, at 3:45 PM, David Mitchell wrote: > I use Pharo for commercial work TODAY! This is cool. Can you tell us a bit more :) > Thank you Pharo team! Stef > > > --David Mitchell > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 7:12 AM, stepken <stepken(a)web.de> wrote: >>> Pharo developers are few and limited. They are trying to do all of >>> their >>> best on Pharo. We know this an important package but perhaps they >>> have more >>> important things to do. Pharo is not even in a beta of first >>> milestone. This >>> can be planned in a future milestone. >> >> Hmmm. How many manyears were invested in Squeak? 1000, 2000? >> >> You have removed lots of code due to "license problems". See R.A. >> Harmon code. What a pitty to throw away code ... >> >> Do you really think, he really cares about his former code >> contribution to a system, which from the beginning was free and open? >> >> Don't you think, every jugde would confirm, that such code >> contributions were made in the sense of "giveaways"? >> >> I think you don't have a real understanding of what you have >> destroyed now. >> >> Having rewritten array/colletions/streams code ... a bit shorter >> code now, because of traits. Who really cares? >> >> You want to build a commercial platform to make money. Supported. >> Yes. >> >> Didn't you all Smalltalk Developers notice, that even Dolphin was >> close to give up? They hat to find their new business model. And >> they also have a very sophisticated *free* version. >> >> GNU Smalltalk 3.0 ... fine thing, free, can run seaside, pier, .... >> what do i need more? Free! >> >> Do you really hope to get one cent for supporting a free smalltalk >> platform? >> >> I really appreciate your effords. There are things, that had to be >> done on Squeak. Traits, 5th implemention of closures ... >> >> But ... you haven't included the old code contributors at Viewpoint >> Research Institute, MIT (Scratch), HPI Berlin. >> >> Where are your plans to give back your code changes to squeak/ >> scratch community? No. Very egoistic, IMHO. >> >> Where is the "soft refactoring" without destroying anything ...? At >> the moment ... i see some developments with pleasure, others are >> catastrophic ... >> >> Eliot writing the 10th implementation of a squeak jitter. Fine. >> Every profesional company uses LLVM. Apple e.g. >> >> I wanted to know, how fast a programming language with jitter could >> be done. It took me about 2 weeks ...LL(1) grammar, LLVM ... works >> like a charm on Intel, ARM, PPC ... and really fast! Other >> platforms to be tested. Of cause, lots of things to be done .. >> debugging ... profiling ... no classbrowser ... but i can run older >> squeak code with morphic. 80%/20% problem ;-) Or rather 90/10? >> Dunnow, i stopped the development. Was an experiment. >> >> Will Eliots jitter run on different processor architectures? No! >> 386 machine code only. So - no real portability! Who really cares >> that stuff then? Ever heard of the giant chinese market? They use >> MIPS clone 32+64Bit processors with Linux now. Everywhere. China >> can't officially use Intel, because of too much power consumption. >> I've been there several times. MIPS, everywhere. In China and Japan >> you find lots of people doing squeak stuff. Potential code >> contributors code developers for Pharo, partners! >> >> Morphic code .. from SELF Programming Language development ... then >> ported to squeak, then to Javascript. Fine. ETOYS on TOP. >> >> Where is my loved ETOYS? The only reason to use Squeak or Pharo! >> Education was and is the domain of Squeak. Nothing else. >> >> I asked Frank Lesser for EToys / Morphic on top of his Smalltalk. >> Matured, blindingly fast, Jitter written in Assembler. Now the base >> for DNG. Not a great problem, he meant, he had it once ported for >> testing purposes. >> >> If i really needed a sophisticated smalltalk to start new >> projects ... what do you think, what i would take? Smalltalk for >> educational purposes, e.g.? I have free choice. But no ETOYS, >> anywhere. Children really love EToys. It's a marvelous software >> package for educational purposes. >> >> Many companies are caught in their own jail of huge masses of GUI >> code. They can't go with other smalltalks. Will they ever change to >> a "supported Pharo"? I think: No. >> >> Morphic ... no MVC, no MVP. What has happened to Tweak code? ETOYS >> was ported to that GUI. That code was quite ok. Why haven't the >> code autors spent that code for Squeak/Pharo? >> >> So please ... don't tell me you haven't enough hands at the moment. >> Do the right things, not just some few things right, beautifying >> GUI, implemeting the 5th version of closures and well ... traits. >> >> Do 'crowdsourceing', invite people to contribute, learn community >> organizing first. Give them a reason to contribute. Give them a >> future, a business modell to participate. >> >> Your egoistic path to make a commercial supported free >> smalltalk ... good idea, but you are lightyears far from that. >> >> Leo Penta wrote a nice book about that 'crowdsourceing' stuff, or >> reread "Eric Raymond - Cathedral and the basaar" again and again >> and again. *PARTICIPATION* Bring people to participate your >> business model. >> >> LEARN from the mistakes, many, many good programmers did. See TWEAK >> bad fate. Dead development process. Good sourcecode, lost in >> space ... like many squeak packages. >> >> *Defective development process*. I posted that as issue, it was >> deleted by someone not really understanding, what i meant. >> >> thanx for understanding. >> >> cheers, Guido Stepken >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.12.11/2089 - Release Date: 30/04/2009 05:53 p.m.

May 28, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Crypt ... Libraries ...

by Yoshiki Ohshima

At Tue, 26 May 2009 10:09:58 -0600, Brian Brown wrote: > > > Do you really think, he really cares about his former code > > contribution to a system, which from the beginning was free and open? > > So anytime you want to, you can just decide what someone else's > intention for their code contribution was and do what you want? Each > person owns his own code, and Pharo has to be careful and have actual > permission to use the code they distribute. I have nothing important to add here. and like the idea of having Pharo 1.0 clean and be careful. But in my humble opinion, yes, *probably* Richard's intention was to make his code be free and open, as he released it under the Squeak License, which is fairly liberal, and he didn't complain when it is distributed in that way for a long time. The sad part is that we as the developers are made to think that being overly defensive is the right position... -- Yoshiki

May 28, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Transcript does not handle multiple thread access

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Not this one. ThreadSafeTranscript is on squeaksource same name. Now I just check and I do not know why is shown Argh Stef On May 28, 2009, at 11:27 PM, FranÃ§ois Tanguy wrote: > Name: Nile-Clients-damiencassou.101 > Author: damiencassou > Time: 17 February 2009, 6:29:21 pm > UUID: c84dacab-8c7e-48b4-b9ff-31f712051122 > Ancestors: Nile-Clients-damiencassou.99, Nile-Clients-damiencassou.100 > > FranÃ§ois > > Le 28 mai 09 Ã 23:19, StÃ©phane Ducasse a Ã©crit : > >> Which version of threadSafeTrasncruipt do you have >> >> I have >> >> >> clear >> "Clear all characters and redisplay the view" >> >> self changed: #clearText. >> accessSemaphore >> critical: [ stream reset ] >> >> Stef >> >> >> On May 28, 2009, at 11:06 PM, FranÃ§ois Tanguy wrote: >> >>> Yes I already tried but a DNU showed up when trying to execute >>> "STranscript clear". >>> The method reset does not exist. See the implementation below. >>> >>> clear >>> "Clear all characters and redisplay the view" >>> >>> accessSemaphore critical: >>> [ self changed: #clearText. >>> self reset ] >>> >>> FranÃ§ois >>> >>> Le 28 mai 09 Ã 22:56, StÃ©phane Ducasse a Ã©crit : >>> >>>> francois >>>> >>>> on squeaksource there is a threadsafeTranscript >>>> can you try it? >>>> The idea is to get it to replace the non thread safe (= defult >>>> one). >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> On May 28, 2009, at 10:49 PM, FranÃ§ois Tanguy wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> try this in a workspace (image 10319) : >>>>> >>>>> "First open a Transcript via the world menu" >>>>> Transcript clear. >>>>> 5 timesRepeat: [ [Transcript show: 'Hello'] fork ] >>>>> >>>>> Behavior is bad. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Now, try the following: >>>>> >>>>> Transcript clear. >>>>> Transcript open. >>>>> 5 timesRepeat: [ [Transcript show: 'Hello'] fork ] >>>>> >>>>> It is always working. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Is it a known problem ? Should we open an issue ? >>>>> >>>>> FranÃ§ois >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>> project >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 28, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] SLICE-RelicensingPart1

by Michael Rueger

On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 11:32 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima <yoshiki(a)vpri.org> wrote: > At Thu, 28 May 2009 23:12:23 +0200, > Michael Rueger wrote: >> >> My first and pretty much most embarrassing >> realization when first traveling to Japan. > > Â What happened? When arriving at Kansai (Osaka airport) the trains were shut down due to a storm (don't ask about how the flight went ;-) ). When the girl at the information booth told me that I would need to take the bus (which takes 3h instead of 90min IIRC) I said " I guess i have no other choice". After a while I realized that she had started to look for other choices for me... At last we both realized what happened and had a good laugh ;-) Very humbling experience... Michael

May 28, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] struggeling along

by Adrian Lienhard

On May 28, 2009, at 23:06 , Norbert Hartl wrote: > Hi, > > I can't really follow the mailing list so some of these might > already known and fixed. I just tried to install a gemtools > client from universe. I'm using the latest pharo-dev. > > Installing FFI brought up an syntax error because there is > an attempt writing to a temp. Did this change with the > closures? I think this is fixed by the version some can load > via the ScriptLoader. > > Next I encountered a problem with MIMEDocument. I think it > is Issue-631. There is an incorrect usage of the MIMEDocument > interface. I changed it but wanted to store it in PharoInbox > but my image crashes if I try to. > > It is: > > Segmentation fault > > -1178673304 UUID>initialize > -1178673420 Behavior>new: > -1178673512 >new Thanks for the feedback. The segfault probably is #855 (I just created this issue now. The problem has been discussed on May 19). Cheers, Adrian

May 28, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] License cleaning: 74 methods left

by Gabriel Cotelli

Great!!! I will look at the list tonight and try to start working in some of this!!. On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> wrote: > I did the check again for Pharo #10310 and now we are down at 74 dirty > methods. > > I removed all remaining methods of Richard A. Harmon (RAH) from the > list of dirty methods because, as I figured out just now, they > originate from the SqueakSource package "ANSI Compatibility", which is > released under SqueakL. > > @Gabriel: this means it would be possible to use the old versions of > methods, like #codePoint, you have been working on. > > The up to date list can be found as usual at: > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ResultofRelicensing > > Further help (thanks Gabriel!) is welcome... > > Cheers, > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 28, 2009