May 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] Crypt ... Libraries ...

by stepken

> Pharo developers are few and limited. They are trying to do all of their > best on Pharo. We know this an important package but perhaps they have more > important things to do. Pharo is not even in a beta of first milestone. This > can be planned in a future milestone. Hmmm. How many manyears were invested in Squeak? 1000, 2000? You have removed lots of code due to "license problems". See R.A. Harmon code. What a pitty to throw away code ... Do you really think, he really cares about his former code contribution to a system, which from the beginning was free and open? Don't you think, every jugde would confirm, that such code contributions were made in the sense of "giveaways"? I think you don't have a real understanding of what you have destroyed now. Having rewritten array/colletions/streams code ... a bit shorter code now, because of traits. Who really cares? You want to build a commercial platform to make money. Supported. Yes. Didn't you all Smalltalk Developers notice, that even Dolphin was close to give up? They hat to find their new business model. And they also have a very sophisticated *free* version. GNU Smalltalk 3.0 ... fine thing, free, can run seaside, pier, .... what do i need more? Free! Do you really hope to get one cent for supporting a free smalltalk platform? I really appreciate your effords. There are things, that had to be done on Squeak. Traits, 5th implemention of closures ... But ... you haven't included the old code contributors at Viewpoint Research Institute, MIT (Scratch), HPI Berlin. Where are your plans to give back your code changes to squeak/scratch community? No. Very egoistic, IMHO. Where is the "soft refactoring" without destroying anything ...? At the moment ... i see some developments with pleasure, others are catastrophic ... Eliot writing the 10th implementation of a squeak jitter. Fine. Every profesional company uses LLVM. Apple e.g. I wanted to know, how fast a programming language with jitter could be done. It took me about 2 weeks ...LL(1) grammar, LLVM ... works like a charm on Intel, ARM, PPC ... and really fast! Other platforms to be tested. Of cause, lots of things to be done .. debugging ... profiling ... no classbrowser ... but i can run older squeak code with morphic. 80%/20% problem ;-) Or rather 90/10? Dunnow, i stopped the development. Was an experiment. Will Eliots jitter run on different processor architectures? No! 386 machine code only. So - no real portability! Who really cares that stuff then? Ever heard of the giant chinese market? They use MIPS clone 32+64Bit processors with Linux now. Everywhere. China can't officially use Intel, because of too much power consumption. I've been there several times. MIPS, everywhere. In China and Japan you find lots of people doing squeak stuff. Potential code contributors code developers for Pharo, partners! Morphic code .. from SELF Programming Language development ... then ported to squeak, then to Javascript. Fine. ETOYS on TOP. Where is my loved ETOYS? The only reason to use Squeak or Pharo! Education was and is the domain of Squeak. Nothing else. I asked Frank Lesser for EToys / Morphic on top of his Smalltalk. Matured, blindingly fast, Jitter written in Assembler. Now the base for DNG. Not a great problem, he meant, he had it once ported for testing purposes. If i really needed a sophisticated smalltalk to start new projects ... what do you think, what i would take? Smalltalk for educational purposes, e.g.? I have free choice. But no ETOYS, anywhere. Children really love EToys. It's a marvelous software package for educational purposes. Many companies are caught in their own jail of huge masses of GUI code. They can't go with other smalltalks. Will they ever change to a "supported Pharo"? I think: No. Morphic ... no MVC, no MVP. What has happened to Tweak code? ETOYS was ported to that GUI. That code was quite ok. Why haven't the code autors spent that code for Squeak/Pharo? So please ... don't tell me you haven't enough hands at the moment. Do the right things, not just some few things right, beautifying GUI, implemeting the 5th version of closures and well ... traits. Do 'crowdsourceing', invite people to contribute, learn community organizing first. Give them a reason to contribute. Give them a future, a business modell to participate. Your egoistic path to make a commercial supported free smalltalk ... good idea, but you are lightyears far from that. Leo Penta wrote a nice book about that 'crowdsourceing' stuff, or reread "Eric Raymond - Cathedral and the basaar" again and again and again. *PARTICIPATION* Bring people to participate your business model. LEARN from the mistakes, many, many good programmers did. See TWEAK bad fate. Dead development process. Good sourcecode, lost in space ... like many squeak packages. *Defective development process*. I posted that as issue, it was deleted by someone not really understanding, what i meant. thanx for understanding. cheers, Guido Stepken

May 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo FFI 3.9.1

by Mariano Martinez Peck

There were some bugs introduced and fixed related with MIMEType. You should test load FFI with latests images (it works for me). cheers, mariano 2009/5/26 clarence.westberg <clarence.westberg(a)gmail.com> > In looking at different versions I see FFI 3.9.1 loads in image pharo0.1-10243dev09.02.3.image > just fine. However if I start with pharo0.1-10259dev09.03.3.image I have the > problem. > > On May 25, 2009, at 5:46 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > You can install it just evaluating this: > > ScriptLoader loadFFI. > > This is also here: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/CodeSnippets > > Cheers, > > Mariano > > On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 7:40 PM, clarence.westberg < > clarence.westberg(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> What is the secret to getting FFI 3.9.1 to install from the Universe >> Browser in Pharo? I always get a MessageNotUnderstood: >> MIMEType>>indexOf: error >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] 4.1.1beta2u redraw issue

by Sean Allen

On May 26, 2009, at 3:57 AM, Damien Cassou wrote: > On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Sean Allen <sean(a)monkeysnatchbanana.com > > wrote: >> If I resize a window with the Mac 4.1.1beta2u vm, it takes a really >> long time to redraw, sometimes up to 2 minutes or so in time. >> >> horizontally, it does it immediately. this only impact on a resize >> that adds/removes space vertically. > > Have you tried with a previous VM? Have you tried with a previous > image? > yes but not in a scientific fashion. my previous pharo stuff was rather dated by this point. where can i download more recent images and vms? i could probably pinpoint when it became an issue.

May 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo FFI 3.9.1

by clarence.westberg

In looking at different versions I see FFI 3.9.1 loads in image pharo0.1-10243dev09.02.3.image just fine. However if I start with pharo0.1-10259dev09.03.3.image I have the problem. On May 25, 2009, at 5:46 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > You can install it just evaluating this: > > ScriptLoader loadFFI. > > This is also here: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/CodeSnippets > > Cheers, > > Mariano > > On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 7:40 PM, clarence.westberg <clarence.westberg(a)gmail.com > > wrote: > What is the secret to getting FFI 3.9.1 to install from the Universe > Browser in Pharo? I always get a MessageNotUnderstood: > MIMEType>>indexOf: error > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Categorizing methods

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Damien, I have classes in Alexandria-BibTeX and Alexandria-Seaside. One class in the BibTeX world is BibTeXDatabase. It has Magritte #description methods that I would like to classify as part of Alexandria-Seaside, and I cannot figure out how to do it. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Damien Cassou Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 2:59 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Categorizing methods 2009/5/25 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>: > I am not sure what you mean. Â I found no way to set a method category. Â There is Move to extend class, but it gave me a walkback. Â I might have fixed that; see attached. Â If it is correct, we can discuss style and get it put where it can be harvested. Could you please rephrase your problem completely? I don't understand. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 26, 2009

[Pharo-project] [ANN] new core image on the server

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/?group_id=1299 STef

May 26, 2009

[Pharo-project] [ANN] Some updates

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

10314 - Bookmorph more cleaning 10315 - fixing utf-8 characters in a couple of methods. - Issue 830: invalid utf8 in change log but we should really check http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=5996 to see if it solves the root of the problem. 10316 - reciprocal rewrite to get more license clean code 10317 - sensor fixes 10318 - Issue 803 Fix for http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail? id=803 Mantis http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6797 - Some tests from Gabriel for the relicensing Stef

May 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Crypt ... Libraries ...

by GÃ¶ran Krampe

Hi! stepken wrote: > https, md5, DES, AES .... i really wonder, why you can't decide to > plugin libcrypt ....? > In C programming language we have all, we can imagine. So why reinvent > the wheel by rewriting complex code in smalltalk? It is all about "open source itches". The crypto guys wanted to implement crypto techniques, not typically because they wanted to *use* them but probably because they wanted to *implement* them. > Why not including a small webserver in C language as plugin? Code is there. In that particular case I would rather favor say SimpleCGI: http://map.squeak.org/packagebyname/blackfoot It already works but of course would need a little bit of love for industrial strength integration with Seaside. It all comes down to *time*. Do you have time to spare? :) > Same with pdf libs - why not using Display PDF in C code with e.g. > PANGO, like Apple did with Mac OS X? More and more external libs are hooked up to Squeak, generally speaking. At the same time - Squeak runs bit identical in a magnitude of platforms and each time you depend on an external lib you end up depending on *its* portability. > No, instead of doing so, MORPHIC is still there, based on C-LANG blitter > code. Morphic is what it is. But it works and it serves a UI base that all Squeaks can share. It is not easily replaced over night with something else. There is an insight here that it can take years to gain: The Squeak environment (tools, Morphic etc) that we "live in" or work in or whatever - it needs to be comfortable enough to suit a large percentage of Squeakers. If it is not - people don't "live there" and if they don't live there noone will help out improving it. Thus, it is very hard to replace Morphic because you need something that works almost equally well (=comfortable enough) in order to gain a population in your new UI. If you do not gain a population - you do not get any help in evolving it, and you fail because it takes lots of man power. This effect has been seen over and over, and over. :) > Dear Squeak, Smalltalk, Pharo - developers - Do you still have the > overview or are you lost in Smalltalk details? Good question of course, we all try our best. Also, note that we all have different goals. regards, GÃ¶ran

May 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Categorizing methods

by Damien Cassou

2009/5/25 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>: > I am not sure what you mean. Â I found no way to set a method category. Â There is Move to extend class, but it gave me a walkback. Â I might have fixed that; see attached. Â If it is correct, we can discuss style and get it put where it can be harvested. Could you please rephrase your problem completely? I don't understand. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry

May 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] 4.1.1beta2u redraw issue

by Damien Cassou

On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Sean Allen <sean(a)monkeysnatchbanana.com> wrote: > If I resize a window with the Mac 4.1.1beta2u vm, it takes a really > long time to redraw, sometimes up to 2 minutes or so in time. > > horizontally, it does it immediately. this only impact on a resize > that adds/removes space vertically. Have you tried with a previous VM? Have you tried with a previous image? -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry

May 26, 2009