April 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Hack to make mac menus work in post pharo0.1-10284dev09.04.4

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Michael Rueger <m.rueger(a)acm.org> wrote: > Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > Should this fix work also for Linux ? I tried it but the copy past still > > doesn't work. > > The fix is not related to Linux. > Do other short cuts work? > No. No shortcut si working. I tried ctrl + b to browse, ctrl + x, ctrl + c, ctrl + v, ctrl + w, select text shift + arrows. Swap mouse preference doesn't work also. I am using pharo0.1-10289dev09.04.5 in Ubuntu 8.10 and last exupery (with closure) vm. Thanks, Mariano > Which distribution are you using? > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

April 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Hack to make mac menus work in post pharo0.1-10284dev09.04.4

by Michael Rueger

Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > Should this fix work also for Linux ? I tried it but the copy past still > doesn't work. The fix is not related to Linux. Do other short cuts work? Which distribution are you using? Michael

April 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: Garbage Avoidance Techniques ... in Squeak?

by John M McIntosh

On 21-Apr-09, at 12:07 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: stepken <stepken(a)web.de> >> Date: April 21, 2009 12:59:15 PM CEDT >> To: pharo-project-owner(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Subject: Garbage Avoidance Techniques ... in Squeak? >> >> Hi! >> >> Just reviewing some old ideas >> >> Frank Lesser (programming the Dolphin NG VM) in our last session >> mentioned "garbage avoidance": >> >> "Garbage not produced hasn't to be garbage collected!" Ah, well that would be slide 80 at http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com/papers/GCPaper/GCTalk%202001.htm That is hard. I recall last century talking in the lobby of the NY Marriot with the late David N Smith and someone came up with an GC issue. Eliot got involved and the issue of the 48MB spike came down to something like 1 to 14000000 do: [:i | fi := foo+fum]. it turned out an intermediate float object was being created for each cycle thru the loop, that would get earlier tenured then bloat OldSpace by 48MB, then finally a full GC would collect all those dead floats. >> >> >> Therefore the Debugger has to be adapted for being able to debug >> garbage. Sounds strange, but could be very informative even for a >> programmer ;-) >> Well you could build a VM that tracks what objects get *removed* when the compacting cycle runs in the GC logic. After the mark trace in the compacting cycle we skip over the non- referenced objects since we know they are dead, no reason you couldn't collect data on what they were. You can't refer to them, later since they are about to be destroyed. Or you subclass your entire domain model (etc) off weak object then collect info at finalization time, very expensive... >> I think, that this - in long term - results tremendous speedups >> over polymorphic inline caching and other "tricks" and ... the >> object model has to be changed for being able just to throw away >> garbage without explicitly collecting. That technically would be reference counting, I refer you to the history books to understand how hard, issues with cycles, the cost. Mind the cost today could be free because desktop CPUs today would erase the cost of the object reference increment/decrement via instruction rescheduling and multicore processing. The hard part & cycles, still is an issue. -- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================

April 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] syntax highlighting - how?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Apr 21, 2009, at 9:20 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > What I really wanted to know, and I still don't know is: > > - which are the available extensions and useful tools for > development. Is there a up to date list ? > - what do each of those things do? For example, what is RoelTyper ? infer the types of your variables iv and methods arg Refactoring Browser. > RFB? > > Perhaps we can put a list of "IDE" or "dev" tools that we know that > works on Pharo and a little description of what they are for. > > Cheers, > > Mariano > > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > Sorry, I wasn't clear. > > I started a Wiki page with my script > <http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ImageBuildScripts>. Maybe other > people can add their scripts to the same page, so that we can exchange > some ideas ;-) > > Lukas > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 5:31 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Yes would be cool! > > > > Stef > > On Apr 21, 2009, at 5:21 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > > > >> What about a collection of scripts that build images? > >> > >> - Damien could put his script for the popular dev images. > >> - I could put mine there with the fancy tweaks to get a strange UI. > >> - ... and I am sure that there are more around. > >> > >> etc. > >> > >> Lukas > >> > >> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 5:18 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > >> <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >>> > >>> On Apr 21, 2009, at 4:43 PM, Cameron Sanders wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> Sorry to ask such a basic question, but how do I enable syntax > >>>> highlighting in Pharo? I updated to the 4.0-closure vm (on a Mac) > >>>> two > >>>> weeks ago. Shout is not in the package list in Monticello, so > do I > >>>> need to add some repository? I have searched the preferences on > >>>> words > >>>> like color, syntax, highlight, and variations, and I struck out. > >>>> > >>>> And when I have a question like this, what is the best place to > look > >>>> for the answer? Many squeak specific notes (historical > postings) do > >>>> not seem to always apply to Pharo. > >>> > >>> Ask here and edit the wiki if necessary to create accurate snippet > >>> and > >>> information > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> 4.0 seems to be working great! > >>>> > >>>> thanks in advance, > >>>> Cam S > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- > project > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Lukas Renggli > >> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pharo-project mailing list > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] syntax highlighting - how?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

What I really wanted to know, and I still don't know is: - which are the available extensions and useful tools for development. Is there a up to date list ? - what do each of those things do? For example, what is RoelTyper ? RFB? Perhaps we can put a list of "IDE" or "dev" tools that we know that works on Pharo and a little description of what they are for. Cheers, Mariano On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Sorry, I wasn't clear. > > I started a Wiki page with my script > <http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ImageBuildScripts>. Maybe other > people can add their scripts to the same page, so that we can exchange > some ideas ;-) > > Lukas > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 5:31 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Yes would be cool! > > > > Stef > > On Apr 21, 2009, at 5:21 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > > > >> What about a collection of scripts that build images? > >> > >> - Damien could put his script for the popular dev images. > >> - I could put mine there with the fancy tweaks to get a strange UI. > >> - ... and I am sure that there are more around. > >> > >> etc. > >> > >> Lukas > >> > >> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 5:18 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > >> <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >>> > >>> On Apr 21, 2009, at 4:43 PM, Cameron Sanders wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> Sorry to ask such a basic question, but how do I enable syntax > >>>> highlighting in Pharo? I updated to the 4.0-closure vm (on a Mac) > >>>> two > >>>> weeks ago. Shout is not in the package list in Monticello, so do I > >>>> need to add some repository? I have searched the preferences on > >>>> words > >>>> like color, syntax, highlight, and variations, and I struck out. > >>>> > >>>> And when I have a question like this, what is the best place to look > >>>> for the answer? Many squeak specific notes (historical postings) do > >>>> not seem to always apply to Pharo. > >>> > >>> Ask here and edit the wiki if necessary to create accurate snippet > >>> and > >>> information > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> 4.0 seems to be working great! > >>>> > >>>> thanks in advance, > >>>> Cam S > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Lukas Renggli > >> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pharo-project mailing list > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

April 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] startup costs

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

may be then it would be better to move it to systemChangeNotifier :) On Apr 21, 2009, at 9:11 PM, John M McIntosh wrote: > SystemChangeNotifier uniqueInstance notify: self > ofAllSystemChangesUsing: #event:.

April 21, 2009

[Pharo-project] Fwd: Garbage Avoidance Techniques ... in Squeak?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Begin forwarded message: > From: stepken <stepken(a)web.de> > Date: April 21, 2009 12:59:15 PM CEDT > To: pharo-project-owner(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Garbage Avoidance Techniques ... in Squeak? > > Hi! > > Just reviewing some old ideas > > Frank Lesser (programming the Dolphin NG VM) in our last session > mentioned "garbage avoidance": > > "Garbage not produced hasn't to be garbage collected!" > > Therefore the Debugger has to be adapted for being able to debug > garbage. Sounds strange, but could be very informative even for a > programmer ;-) > > I think, that this - in long term - results tremendous speedups > over polymorphic inline caching and other "tricks" and ... the > object model has to be changed for being able just to throw away > garbage without explicitly collecting. Memory fragmentation > avoidance should be also considered in this context. > > Whenever i see a VM running and i see "pumping effects" in memory > allocation, I know, the designers of the VM and code are beginners. > > And a second old idea somes into my mind when looking at the squeak > code ... a GOF - Pattern: > > "Composition over Inheritance" - makes code much, much easier > refactorable and results in much faster execution code, IMHO. > > Have fun, Guido Stepken >

April 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Hack to make mac menus work in post pharo0.1-10284dev09.04.4

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I do not know but on mac it saved my day :) Stef On Apr 21, 2009, at 9:04 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > Should this fix work also for Linux ? I tried it but the copy past > still doesn't work. > > Thanks, > > Mariano > > 2009/4/21 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > > Stef > > > On Apr 21, 2009, at 7:59 PM, Michael Rueger wrote: > > John M McIntosh wrote: > Ok Michael asked er, where is it broken this morning. > > So as he is making the official fix I'll supply a hack so that people > don't loose their minds over the issue. > > Thank you!!! > > That would have taken me days to figure out... > > I'll make an official fix latest tomorrow. > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Hack to make mac menus work in post pharo0.1-10284dev09.04.4

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Should this fix work also for Linux ? I tried it but the copy past still doesn't work. Thanks, Mariano 2009/4/21 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > > Stef > > > On Apr 21, 2009, at 7:59 PM, Michael Rueger wrote: > > John M McIntosh wrote: >> >>> Ok Michael asked er, where is it broken this morning. >>> >>> So as he is making the official fix I'll supply a hack so that people >>> don't loose their minds over the issue. >>> >> >> Thank you!!! >> >> That would have taken me days to figure out... >> >> I'll make an official fix latest tomorrow. >> >> Michael >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

April 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] startup costs

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I'm wondering why Utilities is in the startUp list On Apr 21, 2009, at 8:57 PM, John M McIntosh wrote: > Further to the fact that Pharo takes 51,249,233 bytes codes to idle > The breakdown roughly is > > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.581 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] Delay > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.588 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] DisplayScreen > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.628 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] Cursor > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.638 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 32519 > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.643 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] InputEventFetcher > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.649 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 10304 > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.655 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] ProcessorScheduler > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.691 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 14367 > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.693 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] LanguageEnvironment > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.704 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 10523 > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.706 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] FileDirectory > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.746 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 255849 > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.749 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] > NaturalLanguageTranslator > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.768 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 66786 > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.771 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] ShortIntegerArray > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.780 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 10410 > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.786 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] ShortRunArray > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.793 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 9989 > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.799 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] CrLfFileStream > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.805 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 10031 > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.813 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] OSPlatform > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.816 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 11923 > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.827 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] InputSensor > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.851 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 210020 > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.862 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] PasteUpMorph > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.874 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 16403 > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.876 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] ImageSegment > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.885 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 10173 > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.889 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] PowerManagement > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.896 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 10156 > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.903 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] ExternalSettings > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.919 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 65868 > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.927 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] SecurityManager > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.982 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 332367 > 2009-04-21 11:50:40.993 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] FreeTypeFontProvider > 2009-04-21 11:50:42.780 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 16,194,897 > 2009-04-21 11:50:42.783 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] AutoStart > 2009-04-21 11:50:43.754 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 6,252,778 > 2009-04-21 11:50:43.764 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] UUIDGenerator > 2009-04-21 11:50:43.766 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 9959 > 2009-04-21 11:50:43.779 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] ProcessBrowser > 2009-04-21 11:50:43.805 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 10230 > 2009-04-21 11:50:43.808 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] CPUWatcher > 2009-04-21 11:50:43.818 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 10081 > 2009-04-21 11:50:43.824 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] DateAndTime > 2009-04-21 11:50:43.830 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 9817 > 2009-04-21 11:50:43.837 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] SmalltalkImage > 2009-04-21 11:50:43.841 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 9985 > 2009-04-21 11:50:43.850 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] HostSystemMenus > 2009-04-21 11:50:43.965 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 742254 > 2009-04-21 11:50:43.972 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] Utilities > 2009-04-21 11:50:43.977 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 32821 > 2009-04-21 11:50:43.989 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] MenuIcons > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.009 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 87508 > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.011 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] WeakArray > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.341 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 289513 > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.343 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] MultiByteFileStream > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.354 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 10556 > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.356 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] InternetConfiguration > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.391 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 14066 > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.393 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] Locale > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.403 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 9878 > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.405 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] CommandHistory > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.416 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 10862 > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.419 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] HostWindowProxy > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.429 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 12620 > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.437 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] FreeTypeSettings > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.441 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 10230 > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.453 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] UITheme > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.462 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 10158 > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.465 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] Clipboard > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.475 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 10074 > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.479 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] RBSpellChecker > 2009-04-21 11:50:44.520 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 10370 > > and another 3,179,768 bytecodes of processing before things go idle > > 2009-04-21 11:50:45.013 Squeak VM Opt[5310:813] 3179768 > > > -- > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http:// > www.smalltalkconsulting.com > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

April 21, 2009