April 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Hack to make mac menus work in post pharo0.1-10284dev09.04.4

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Michael Rueger wrote: > Nicolas Cellier wrote: >> It is because InputEventFectcher does not take care to stop the >> fetcherProcess. >> I think it should: >> >> InputEventFectcher >>shutDown >> fetcherProcess ifNotNil: [fetcherProcess terminate]. >> inputSemaphore ifNotNil: [Smalltalk unregisterExternalObject: >> inputSemaphore] >> >> At least, it should do it on deinstall... > > I've integrate your suggestions, thanks! Where ;)? > > >> IMO, it has been adopted too soon, and we should better revert >> temporarily with such a hack. > > Well, yes and no. > > Yes, it could have used a bit more testing, but the truth is that very > few people test stuff that is not in the update stream. > > No, we are still in alpha and anybody expecting the bleeding edge > version of Pharo to be stable enough for everyday work after every > single update doesn't know what "alpha" means. > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

April 23, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo windows hanging ...

by Eagle Offshore

I assume c and d will get fixed (since doing animation from worker threads is pretty much the point). b - well of course you can't do UI work from FFI - you're not on the UI thread - unless you call performSelectorOnMainThread:... from there. a - I dunno - it seems like squeak's vm ought to do most work not on the UI thread except for UI things but the runtime models aren't exactly what I'd call fundamentally compatible since Cocoa wants to own the runloop and just call you back now and then via delegates or notifications. I have a Cocoa MIDI/CoreAudio AudioUnits host that makes heavy use of coreaudio (which ends up spawning a few dozen threads) but still animates pictures of keyboards, sound meters, etc.... in near real time and does it all by calling performSelectorOnMainThread:... and it all works like a charm so long as I remember to invoke the graphics update routines via performSelectorOnMainThread:. I would like to try out the new Cocoa bridge on a Mac at some point and see what can be done with it. -Todd Blanchard On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:30 PM, John M McIntosh wrote: > Ok, I have to comment since i'm up to my neck with alligators over > performSelectorOnMainThread: In fact just this evening 4 hours toasted > to document a bug with this call with Apple for tomorrow. > > (a) people don't realize with the carbon os-x vm we run on the Main > Thread and poll for os-x events that then get dispatch to the squeak > vm event handlers. > This leads to the interesting jerky non-responsive feedback you get > with the VM when you accidently kill the morphic polling loop, since > we aren't servicing > the UI event polling fast enough since we are using a fallback 1/2 > second ancient piece of code that in the past looked for the > interrupt key. > > (b) If you use the Unix os-x vm, that spins the squeak thread off as a > background task, now if you do UI related work via FFI then you die. > > (c) performSelectorOnMainThread: has lots of interesting bugs on the > iPhone, especially if you try to do view animation with it. > > (d) the iphone vm runs as a background thread, but deadlocks with > UIWebView between it and the main thread, are interesting, all > solvable, but interesting. Fortunately in the future we can migrate > back to (a) on the iPhone. > > (e) if you run on the Main Thread then you need something to handle > event callbacks from the UI when you call the UI to service a UI > event. Fortunately this has been worked out and is easier than (d) > > Frankly (a), (b), (c) and did I mention (d) are serious complications > I could do without. > > On 22-Apr-09, at 9:17 PM, Eagle Offshore wrote: > >> >> On Apr 22, 2009, at 11:38 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >>> But this is not the only UI framework which hates the concurrency - >>> take a look at "groundbreaking" Mac OS :) >> >> yes, but they have a nice mechanism for dealing with this when a >> worker thread wants to update the UI >> >> - (void)performSelectorOnMainThread:(SEL)aSelector withObject: >> (id)arg waitUntilDone:(BOOL)wait; >> >> Is there a Squeak equivalent for getting something invoked on the >> main UI thread? >> >> -Todd Blanchard >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http:// > www.smalltalkconsulting.com > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 23, 2009

[Pharo-project] Call Graph Optimization in PHARO?

by stepken

Hi! Before that refactoring and traits implementation stuff did you do any Call Graph Optimization? I mean, in Smalltalk, especially Squeak as being a 'reflective' language this should be done first to minimize cross side incompatiblity effects with older squeak packages, which happen to appear all the time. regards, Guido Stepken

April 23, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo windows hanging ...

by Michael Rueger

John M McIntosh wrote: > Ok, I have to comment since i'm up to my neck with alligators over > performSelectorOnMainThread: In fact just this evening 4 hours toasted > to document a bug with this call with Apple for tomorrow. > > (a) people don't realize with the carbon os-x vm we run on the Main > Thread and poll for os-x events that then get dispatch to the squeak > vm event handlers. > This leads to the interesting jerky non-responsive feedback you get > with the VM when you accidently kill the morphic polling loop, since > we aren't servicing > the UI event polling fast enough since we are using a fallback 1/2 > second ancient piece of code that in the past looked for the > interrupt key. This is gone in the new event sensor design. Michael

April 23, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo windows hanging ...

by John M McIntosh

Ok, I have to comment since i'm up to my neck with alligators over performSelectorOnMainThread: In fact just this evening 4 hours toasted to document a bug with this call with Apple for tomorrow. (a) people don't realize with the carbon os-x vm we run on the Main Thread and poll for os-x events that then get dispatch to the squeak vm event handlers. This leads to the interesting jerky non-responsive feedback you get with the VM when you accidently kill the morphic polling loop, since we aren't servicing the UI event polling fast enough since we are using a fallback 1/2 second ancient piece of code that in the past looked for the interrupt key. (b) If you use the Unix os-x vm, that spins the squeak thread off as a background task, now if you do UI related work via FFI then you die. (c) performSelectorOnMainThread: has lots of interesting bugs on the iPhone, especially if you try to do view animation with it. (d) the iphone vm runs as a background thread, but deadlocks with UIWebView between it and the main thread, are interesting, all solvable, but interesting. Fortunately in the future we can migrate back to (a) on the iPhone. (e) if you run on the Main Thread then you need something to handle event callbacks from the UI when you call the UI to service a UI event. Fortunately this has been worked out and is easier than (d) Frankly (a), (b), (c) and did I mention (d) are serious complications I could do without. On 22-Apr-09, at 9:17 PM, Eagle Offshore wrote: > > On Apr 22, 2009, at 11:38 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> But this is not the only UI framework which hates the concurrency - >> take a look at "groundbreaking" Mac OS :) > > yes, but they have a nice mechanism for dealing with this when a > worker thread wants to update the UI > > - (void)performSelectorOnMainThread:(SEL)aSelector withObject: > (id)arg waitUntilDone:(BOOL)wait; > > Is there a Squeak equivalent for getting something invoked on the > main UI thread? > > -Todd Blanchard > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================

April 23, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo windows hanging ...

by David T. Lewis

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 09:17:12PM -0700, Eagle Offshore wrote: > > On Apr 22, 2009, at 11:38 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > >But this is not the only UI framework which hates the concurrency - > >take a look at "groundbreaking" Mac OS :) > > yes, but they have a nice mechanism for dealing with this when a > worker thread wants to update the UI > > - (void)performSelectorOnMainThread:(SEL)aSelector withObject:(id)arg > waitUntilDone:(BOOL)wait; > > Is there a Squeak equivalent for getting something invoked on the main > UI thread? WorldState class>>addDeferredUIMessage:

April 23, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo windows hanging ...

by Eagle Offshore

On Apr 22, 2009, at 11:38 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > But this is not the only UI framework which hates the concurrency - > take a look at "groundbreaking" Mac OS :) yes, but they have a nice mechanism for dealing with this when a worker thread wants to update the UI - (void)performSelectorOnMainThread:(SEL)aSelector withObject:(id)arg waitUntilDone:(BOOL)wait; Is there a Squeak equivalent for getting something invoked on the main UI thread? -Todd Blanchard

April 23, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo windows hanging ...

by Igor Stasenko

2009/4/23 stepken <stepken(a)web.de>: > Hi, Igor! > > I've got a *brand new* design idea for PHARO ;-) > > All events (keyboard, mouse, network etc.) should be read by a separate > process, which i call ... hmmmm ... "event dispatcher". Brilliant name, > isn't it? > :) > That one reads the event from the operating system, puts it into a > per-windowgroup "event-queue", and notifies the "view process" or > "network process" about the arrival of the event. That one sits on a > semaphore, waiting for the arrival. > Unless you going to write own *brand new* UI framework. Because modifying existing one leads to madness & frustration.. - ask Stephane ;) And in fact, things are more or less similar to what you described: there is a separate process which fetching events from VM, and then queuing them to be handled by UI process. > regards, Guido Stepken > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

April 23, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo windows hanging ...

by stepken

Hi, Igor! I've got a *brand new* design idea for PHARO ;-) All events (keyboard, mouse, network etc.) should be read by a separate process, which i call ... hmmmm ... "event dispatcher". Brilliant name, isn't it? That one reads the event from the operating system, puts it into a per-windowgroup "event-queue", and notifies the "view process" or "network process" about the arrival of the event. That one sits on a semaphore, waiting for the arrival. regards, Guido Stepken

April 22, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Going Alpha

by Michael Roberts

http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/BaselineTestResults This is just a first version I have published. Comments welcome. I have some crude code to produce the wiki syntax from the image. Does anyone mind if I add behaviour to TestRunner & TestResult to do this or should I create a separate PharoWikiExporter class and integrate it? Also it would be convenient for a TestCase to be sortable. Any thoughts on that? I have not made TestCase understand <= yet but it seems verbose not to do so. thanks, Mike

April 22, 2009