March 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Removing more classes from Pharo

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Ffenestri is a possible route to host windows. I am *not* a "native widgets or bust guy" (emulation has its points, performance under scaling being high on the list), but there are reasons to want to use host windows too. I would hesitate to remove this too quickly, unless Pinesoft tells us there is a better way to meet the objective. Compression probably does not need to be in the kernel, but IMHO it does belong in Pharo 1.0. Ditto sounds. Sound is something that people will expect in a well-rounded system. I'm all for cleaning out cruft, but things that are part of the releases are probably more likely to get seen, used, and therefore have bugs detected. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Adrian Lienhard Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 4:21 PM To: Pharo Development Subject: [Pharo-project] Removing more classes from Pharo In quest of modularizing Pharo and reducing its memory footprint, I was wondering whether the following packages should be removed: - TrueType and related classes in Multilingual-Display (are obsolete since we have FreeType, no?) - Services (does not seem to be used, except by a subclass in Polymorph) - Graphics-External-Ffenestri (why is this in the image??) - Compression (I think, does not need to be in the kernel) - Sound (dito) - Traits-LocalSends and Traits-Requires (are not used) - MorphicExtras (I assume at least some of those could extracted) - ...? I would put these in a repository so they can be loaded if needed. The extraction of some of these packages likely needs some work, but would be a first step towards a more modular kernel. What do others think? Adrian ___________________ http://www.adrian-lienhard.ch/ _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 17, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Removing more classes from Pharo

by John M McIntosh

On 16-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > In quest of modularizing Pharo and reducing its memory footprint, I > was wondering whether the following packages should be removed: > > - TrueType and related classes in Multilingual-Display (are obsolete > since we have FreeType, no?) > - Services (does not seem to be used, except by a subclass in > Polymorph) > - Graphics-External-Ffenestri (why is this in the image??) This is part of the multiple window Ffenestri support people wailed for 5 years back, it's part of the EventSensor logic to at least support WindowEventMetricChange := 1. " size or position of window changed - value1-4 are left/top/right/bottom values " WindowEventClose := 2. " window close icon pressed " WindowEventIconise := 3. " window iconised or hidden etc " WindowEventActivated :=4. " window made active - some platforms only - do not rely upon this " WindowEventPaint := 5. " window area (in value1-4) needs updating. Some platforms do not need to send this, do not rely on it in image I believe MOST VMs now support the WindowEventClose via this logic so that people can choose to terminate an image by clicking on the close window button. I'd consider part of the base kernel since it's VM event related. > > - Compression (I think, does not need to be in the kernel) > - Sound (dito) Polymorph-Widgets-Themes uses RestSound, otherwise you could remove all of sound I think, I've done that for an iphone image. You need to alter the Object>beep logic to invoke (somehow) the primtiive beep sound, versus bring up an entire Sound subsystem to beep. > > - Traits-LocalSends and Traits-Requires (are not used) > - MorphicExtras (I assume at least some of those could extracted) > - ...? > > I would put these in a repository so they can be loaded if needed. The > extraction of some of these packages likely needs some work, but would > be a first step towards a more modular kernel. > > What do others think? > > Adrian > > ___________________ > http://www.adrian-lienhard.ch/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================

March 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Removing more classes from Pharo

by Adrian Lienhard

Hi Pavel, Nice to see others interested and working on this too :) If I apply my cleanup script on your image (see ScriptLoader>>cleanUpForRelease) I get an image size of 8.6MB, cool! (A standard Pharo core image is reduced to 9.1MB if you also remove the MC ancestory). I think we should - step by step extract packages and classes from Pharo core that are not used anymore - create a shrink script that allows one to further reduce a Pharo core image (like removing FreeType) Latter would allow us to create minimal Pharo images e.g., for deployment. Could you publish the changes you made so far so we can incorporate them? Cheers, Adrian On Mar 16, 2009, at 22:38 , Pavel Krivanek wrote: > Hi Adrian, > > I've tried to do some steps in this direction so here's a little > cleaned exerimental image without sound, with less unimplemented calls > etc.: http://comtalk.eu/public/pub/pharo/Pharo0.1Core-10248.9.zip > > FreeType package can be removeable, in fact it is easier to remove > that TrueType. > > -- Pavel > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> > wrote: >> In quest of modularizing Pharo and reducing its memory footprint, I >> was wondering whether the following packages should be removed: >> >> - TrueType and related classes in Multilingual-Display (are obsolete >> since we have FreeType, no?) >> - Services (does not seem to be used, except by a subclass in >> Polymorph) >> - Graphics-External-Ffenestri (why is this in the image??) >> - Compression (I think, does not need to be in the kernel) >> - Sound (dito) >> - Traits-LocalSends and Traits-Requires (are not used) >> - MorphicExtras (I assume at least some of those could extracted) >> - ...? >> >> I would put these in a repository so they can be loaded if needed. >> The >> extraction of some of these packages likely needs some work, but >> would >> be a first step towards a more modular kernel. >> >> What do others think? >> >> Adrian >> >> ___________________ >> http://www.adrian-lienhard.ch/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] How to get the package of a class ?

by Adrian Lienhard

Maybe here: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/CodeSnippets. We can also create a new page on the wiki if necessary. Cheers, Adrian On Mar 16, 2009, at 23:21 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > This mail remember me something: it would be nice to have a place > (perhaps > the same of code snippets). Not only thing related to pharo, but to > squeak > in general. For example: > > - The subject of this mail (How to get the package of a class) > - How to copy to clipboard a wallback -> very useful for bug tracking. > - How to put conditional breakpoints (self haltIf:[]) > - How to put a picture as background > > and so on...I really don't know where to put information like this, > but they > can be useful for a lot of people. > > Thanks > > Mariano > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 5:18 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr >> wrote: > >> or mostSpecificPackageOfClass: in Pharo :) >> >> stef >> >> On Mar 16, 2009, at 8:06 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: >> >>> PackageOrganizer default packageOfClass: aClass >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 7:42 PM, Alain Plantec >>> <alain.plantec(a)free.fr> wrote: >>>> thanks >>>> Alain >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Lukas Renggli >>> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] How to get the package of a class ?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

This mail remember me something: it would be nice to have a place (perhaps the same of code snippets). Not only thing related to pharo, but to squeak in general. For example: - The subject of this mail (How to get the package of a class) - How to copy to clipboard a wallback -> very useful for bug tracking. - How to put conditional breakpoints (self haltIf:[]) - How to put a picture as background and so on...I really don't know where to put information like this, but they can be useful for a lot of people. Thanks Mariano On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 5:18 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > or mostSpecificPackageOfClass: in Pharo :) > > stef > > On Mar 16, 2009, at 8:06 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > > > PackageOrganizer default packageOfClass: aClass > > > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 7:42 PM, Alain Plantec > > <alain.plantec(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> thanks > >> Alain > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pharo-project mailing list > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Lukas Renggli > > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Losing click event

by David RÃ¶thlisberger

> Have you tried the following? > TransferMorph allInstances do: [:ea | ea delete] or: Utilities cleanseOtherWorldlySteppers David > from http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2008-December/133369… > HTH, > Adrian > > On Mar 16, 2009, at 17:17 , Hilaire Fernandes wrote: > >> No, there is no hidden morph. There is a variation in the bug, as for >> some time I need to move slighly the mouse to get the clic event >> handled. >> I remove all Morph from screen including taskbar, does not get better. >> I try with different theme >> Nothing special in the process browser, at least no process I can >> kill. >> I saw it is reported in Mantis >> http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7039 >> >> It seems the problem started to occure from a debugging session with >> seaside >> >> >> 2009/3/16 Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com>: >>> Not seen that recently, since I fixed the DockingBar (if you use one) >>> layering and the putting of minimised window (invisible with >>> taskbar) well >>> offscreen. Perhaps you have an inivisble Morph around (World >>> submorphs >>> should verify). >>> >>> Regards, Gary >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Hilaire Fernandes" <hilaire(a)ofset.org> >>> To: "Pharo Development" <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:17 PM >>> Subject: [Pharo-project] Losing click event >>> >>> >>>> I have something strange happening in an image. >>>> >>>> Randomly, mouse click event seems to be lost. I have to click two or >>>> three times to get the event handled. It happens anywhere in the >>>> image. >>>> Is there a way to fix that? >>>> >>>> Hilaire >>>> -- >>>> http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> -- >> http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >

March 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Removing more classes from Pharo

by Pavel Krivanek

Hi Adrian, I've tried to do some steps in this direction so here's a little cleaned exerimental image without sound, with less unimplemented calls etc.: http://comtalk.eu/public/pub/pharo/Pharo0.1Core-10248.9.zip FreeType package can be removeable, in fact it is easier to remove that TrueType. -- Pavel On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> wrote: > In quest of modularizing Pharo and reducing its memory footprint, I > was wondering whether the following packages should be removed: > > - TrueType and related classes in Multilingual-Display (are obsolete > since we have FreeType, no?) > - Services (does not seem to be used, except by a subclass in Polymorph) > - Graphics-External-Ffenestri (why is this in the image??) > - Compression (I think, does not need to be in the kernel) > - Sound (dito) > - Traits-LocalSends and Traits-Requires (are not used) > - MorphicExtras (I assume at least some of those could extracted) > - ...? > > I would put these in a repository so they can be loaded if needed. The > extraction of some of these packages likely needs some work, but would > be a first step towards a more modular kernel. > > What do others think? > > Adrian > > ___________________ > http://www.adrian-lienhard.ch/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Removing more classes from Pharo

by Alexandre Bergel

Never used any of them as well... Cheers, Alexandre On 16 Mar 2009, at 22:21, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > In quest of modularizing Pharo and reducing its memory footprint, I > was wondering whether the following packages should be removed: > > - TrueType and related classes in Multilingual-Display (are obsolete > since we have FreeType, no?) > - Services (does not seem to be used, except by a subclass in > Polymorph) > - Graphics-External-Ffenestri (why is this in the image??) > - Compression (I think, does not need to be in the kernel) > - Sound (dito) > - Traits-LocalSends and Traits-Requires (are not used) > - MorphicExtras (I assume at least some of those could extracted) > - ...? > > I would put these in a repository so they can be loaded if needed. The > extraction of some of these packages likely needs some work, but would > be a first step towards a more modular kernel. > > What do others think? > > Adrian > > ___________________ > http://www.adrian-lienhard.ch/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

March 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Removing more classes from Pharo

by Lukas Renggli

> What do others think? Yeah, it sounds reasonable to remove those classes. Never used any of them. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

March 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Removing more classes from Pharo

by Rob Rothwell

I've only ever worked with Sound, and when I didn't know how to do much with packages and had to make changes to the Sound package I just saved the whole thing loaded it into a new image, so I think it should be relatively straightforward to do as you suggest. However, if the Polymorph "sound" theme became part of the standard Pharo image, you would need sound, but that's the only thing I have heard people talking about. Umm...probably right with TrueType. Morphic, it seems, you just never know what it might interfere with! The rest I don't really know anything about. Then, maybe you could just publish them via any of the standard options (Universes, etc...) with a standard naming convention? Like Pharo-Sound...etc? Take care, Rob On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> wrote: > In quest of modularizing Pharo and reducing its memory footprint, I > was wondering whether the following packages should be removed: > > - TrueType and related classes in Multilingual-Display (are obsolete > since we have FreeType, no?) > - Services (does not seem to be used, except by a subclass in Polymorph) > - Graphics-External-Ffenestri (why is this in the image??) > - Compression (I think, does not need to be in the kernel) > - Sound (dito) > - Traits-LocalSends and Traits-Requires (are not used) > - MorphicExtras (I assume at least some of those could extracted) > - ...? > > I would put these in a repository so they can be loaded if needed. The > extraction of some of these packages likely needs some work, but would > be a first step towards a more modular kernel. > > What do others think? > > Adrian > > ___________________ > http://www.adrian-lienhard.ch/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 16, 2009