March 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] Fwd: [vwnc] Would you start a new Smalltalk project today?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi all I found this email really interesting. Especially the concurrent aspects. Clearly some nice research projects in perspective. Also the immutability bit supports would be great. Stef Begin forwarded message: > From: Antony Blakey <antony.blakey(a)internode.on.net> > Date: March 18, 2009 2:50:47 AM CEST > To: dfinlayson(a)usgs.gov, VWNC NC <vwnc(a)cs.uiuc.edu> > Subject: Re: [vwnc] Would you start a new Smalltalk project today? > > I am a commercial user of VW. > > I've recently replaced my VW/GLORP/Postgresql app with one built in > Ruby/CouchDB. I moved to Ruby because the documentation/learning > material is superior to VW, because of the number of third party > components, which is partly an issue of VW not being Open Source, > because of tools such as Rails, Sinatra and Merb (which I still prefer > over Seaside), and because I needed to focus on sustainable technology > transfer into a market that won't accept VW. Tangentially I wanted to > (subjectively) quantify the productivity improvement due to Smalltalk > relative to another dynamic language (as opposed to Java in Eclipse). > > My experience with Ruby is that the language itself is just too much > of a hack, and this was especially brought home to me when I started > doing Scala and Clojure, and that emphasized for me the beauty of > Smalltalk and Lisp/Scheme. > > I'm going back to Smalltak for new commercial development, partly > because of this, but also because a) the Squeak community is getting a > real injection of energy with Cog and Pharo (which itself pushes > Squeak) and b) I'm getting a good feeling about the way the Cincom > team is changing VW - not only what they're doing, but there seems to > be a much clearer vision and approach that when I first encountered > it. > > I'm also building a commercial application in Scala and Clojure. Both > are great languages, especially for highly concurrent apps, and the > library support is huge because they seamlessly use Java. If this were > the "good old days"(TM) I'm sure someone would be working on decent > concurrency support for Smalltalk. Using multiple images is one > approach, but not one that I like - it seems (IMHO) to be a reaction > to the lack of resources to do something better. Most of the Erlang/ > Scala/Clojure goodness could be layered into Smalltalk if someone had > the will to do so, but I think Cincom would have to do that for it to > get the wide support it would need to have a dependable future. > > One benefit that a JVM language has, as opposed to Smalltalk, is that > both the underlying performance improves, and the available libraries > increase and improve independently of the language. Clojure and Scala > don't need effort per se to improve. Oh for a Smalltalk running on the > JVM in a high performance manner, with JVM object model integration. I > think there is no other way to solve this problem for Smalltalk. > > I really miss programming in an image despite the pain of the Object/ > Subject problem. I don't think it's *always* more productive than > Scala or Clojure (esp for concurrency) but it's more *consistently* > productive. > > Smalltalk's decline has not been terminal, implementations are > improving albeit more slowly than one would like, and as long as it's > the right tool for the job then you should use it. > > On 18/03/2009, at 8:03 AM, David Finlayson wrote: > >> Clojure has some great ideas but you need to know Lisp and Emacs. > > Both Scala and Clojure have good and improving support in (to varying > degrees) IntelliJ, Eclipse, and NetBeans - no Emacs/Slime/VIM > required. I use Clojure and Scala in IntelliJ, and I've done so in > Eclipse as well. > >> 2. No Smalltalk I've used has a decent GUI. Squeak is an >> abomination, down the road Pharo may be good, but not today and VW >> looks like it hasn't been updated since the NT days. Although >> everyone hates Java cross-platform desktop apps, it is interesting >> to compare a VW app (say Bottom Feeder) to a Java app of similar >> design (http://www.rssowl.org/overview) In my opinion the Java >> version fits in a lot better than the VW version (particularly on >> the Mac). > > For VW, my LinkuisticsUI bundle in the public Store improves the > situation somewhat on OSX for VW 7.6. Cincom are also making > improvements to the OSX UI for 7.7. > > Closure and Scala have Swing integration. Scala has very good SWT > bindings. All three IDEs have GUI builders. > > Maybe you should consider a Web UI - checkout tools such as Capuccino > and efforts like bespin. > > Antony Blakey > ------------- > CTO, Linkuistics Pty Ltd > Ph: 0438 840 787 > > A reasonable man adapts himself to suit his environment. An > unreasonable man persists in attempting to adapt his environment to > suit himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. > -- George Bernard Shaw > > > _______________________________________________ > vwnc mailing list > vwnc(a)cs.uiuc.edu > http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc >

March 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Condense Changes error

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

can you try with the latest image since the condenseChanges got fixed. Stef On Mar 17, 2009, at 10:00 PM, John Toohey wrote: > The name of my image file is Pharo0.1Core-10225.image. Smalltalk > version gives me 'Pharo0.1' > > > > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 16:47, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> Hi john >> >> can you tell us your image update exactly since the latest I'm aware >> of is 10252. >> >> Thanks >> >> On Mar 17, 2009, at 9:07 PM, John Toohey wrote: >> >>> When I run condenseChange on my Phao image (10255), it stops after >>> about 95% with a 'syntax error' message. Closing the message does >>> nothing and the process seems stopped. If I delete the changes file, >>> the image is okay, but the parameter names of all my methods has >>> been >>> changes to t1, eg, renderContentOn: html becomes renderContentOn: t1 >>> etc. >>> >>> I can't make any more changes, and need to know how to repair the >>> changes file, or just get rid of it without it changes my source >>> code. >>> -- >>> -JT >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > -JT > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [Vm-dev] newDelta >0 failed in sqUnixMemory -- Was Re: Incompatibility between Pharo and Seasidehosting

by John M McIntosh

If you are using the core audio unix drivers on os-x powerpc. Then you should look at the mac os carbon sqUnixSoundMacOSX.c there are a number of fixes, at least four come to mind, one being getting the endien correct for powerpc. On 17-Mar-09, at 2:35 PM, <bryce(a)kampjes.demon.co.uk> <bryce(a)kampjes.demon.co.uk > wrote: > Bruce O'Neel writes: >> Hi, >> >> Thanks, I've finally gotten back to this and tested it. >> >> It works fine except for sound, which is broken in the same way >> that the 3-10.4 ones are broken (on at least ppc). They sound >> very bad. >> >> Does sound work on x86? If true, then it's probably a byte >> swapping problem and I can track that down. If no, then >> I have no idea. >> >> I did spend some time on it and wasn't successful. The >> 3.7-7 vm worked fine for sound. > > I haven't tested sound in a few years, it's not something I > use. Last time I did test it, I needed to make sure my kernel > had the right sound interface installed. > > Bryce > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================

March 17, 2009

[Pharo-project] Pharo Custom Menus

by Rob Rothwell

One of the things I like about the standard Squeak World menu is the "do..." menu--particularly when paired with "edit this list." What do you think about having some core functionality for creating your own menu entries in Pharo? Unless, of course, it's already there and I just can't find it! Rob

March 17, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [Vm-dev] newDelta >0 failed in sqUnixMemory -- Was Re: Incompatibility between Pharo and Seasidehosting

by bryce＠kampjes.demon.co.uk

Bruce O'Neel writes: > Hi, > > Thanks, I've finally gotten back to this and tested it. > > It works fine except for sound, which is broken in the same way > that the 3-10.4 ones are broken (on at least ppc). They sound > very bad. > > Does sound work on x86? If true, then it's probably a byte > swapping problem and I can track that down. If no, then > I have no idea. > > I did spend some time on it and wasn't successful. The > 3.7-7 vm worked fine for sound. I haven't tested sound in a few years, it's not something I use. Last time I did test it, I needed to make sure my kernel had the right sound interface installed. Bryce

March 17, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Condense Changes error

by John Toohey

The name of my image file is Pharo0.1Core-10225.image. Smalltalk version gives me 'Pharo0.1' On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 16:47, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi john > > can you tell us your image update exactly since the latest I'm aware > of is 10252. > > Thanks > > On Mar 17, 2009, at 9:07 PM, John Toohey wrote: > >> When I run condenseChange on my Phao image (10255), it stops after >> about 95% with a 'syntax error' message. Closing the message does >> nothing and the process seems stopped. If I delete the changes file, >> the image is okay, but the parameter names of all my methods has been >> changes to t1, eg, renderContentOn: html becomes renderContentOn: t1 >> etc. >> >> I can't make any more changes, and need to know how to repair the >> changes file, or just get rid of it without it changes my source code. >> -- >> -JT >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- -JT

March 17, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Condense Changes error

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi john can you tell us your image update exactly since the latest I'm aware of is 10252. Thanks On Mar 17, 2009, at 9:07 PM, John Toohey wrote: > When I run condenseChange on my Phao image (10255), it stops after > about 95% with a 'syntax error' message. Closing the message does > nothing and the process seems stopped. If I delete the changes file, > the image is okay, but the parameter names of all my methods has been > changes to t1, eg, renderContentOn: html becomes renderContentOn: t1 > etc. > > I can't make any more changes, and need to know how to repair the > changes file, or just get rid of it without it changes my source code. > -- > -JT > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 17, 2009

[Pharo-project] Condense Changes error

by John Toohey

When I run condenseChange on my Phao image (10255), it stops after about 95% with a 'syntax error' message. Closing the message does nothing and the process seems stopped. If I delete the changes file, the image is okay, but the parameter names of all my methods has been changes to t1, eg, renderContentOn: html becomes renderContentOn: t1 etc. I can't make any more changes, and need to know how to repair the changes file, or just get rid of it without it changes my source code. -- -JT

March 17, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] about closures integration

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Yes! I will try this evening to produce everything without hords of kids running around. Stef On Mar 17, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Michael Roberts wrote: > I've been offline for a bit but my thoughts would be to go for it and > to do it with the current single stream. After all pharo is in > progress. Unless someone counters I'm not sure there is time to do > this in parallel. If you agree then I would also suggest keeping the > milestone page in sync. > Cheers > Mike > On 3/16/09, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> ok I will try this evening. >> >> Stef >> >> On Mar 16, 2009, at 10:16 AM, Damien Cassou wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 10:32 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse >>> <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> what is the case for the linux and windows one? >>> >>> Give me an image or the steps to make one and I will tell you if it >>> works. The Exupery VM works fine and I use it everyday. >>> >>> -- >>> Damien Cassou >>> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 17, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] World Graphics and Halos

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I need anything that improves the system. I was planning to integrate the changes gary just sent and after try to do a closure release. Stef On Mar 17, 2009, at 3:26 PM, Rob Rothwell wrote: > Well...it worked! > > Steph...do you need any/all of the changes that have been put out > packaged up? I am thinking of the SketchMorphRepainting, and the > HaloMorphRefactoring... > > There was also a PluggableTextMorph-scrollSelectionIntoView from a > week or more ago that scrolls the editor when you try to highlight > beyond the size of the window... > > Take care, > > Rob > > 2009/3/17 Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com> > Bitter experience! > > Regards, Gary > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rob Rothwell > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 11:49 AM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] World Graphics and Halos > > How do you guys KNOW this stuff???! > > Rob > > 2009/3/17 Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com> > Try this one ;-) > > > Regards, Gary > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > > > To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:19 AM > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] World Graphics and Halos > > > do you have a nice little cs :) > > Stef > > On Mar 17, 2009, at 11:09 AM, Gary Chambers wrote: > > If we are going to use the optimised general case in Morph (a valid > thing to do given the default drawOn: implementation) then I guess > we need to check all implementors of drawOn: to do a proper > areasRemainingToFill: if they are not standard and have non-opaque > regions. > > Changing HaloMorph>>defaultColor to answer Color transparent fixes > this one... In fact, for HaloMorph, #borderWidth should be overriden > with the showBoundsInHalo/World logic and #defaultBorderColor to > return Preferences menuSelectionColor. #drawOn: can then be removed. > > Regards, Gary > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rob Rothwell > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:39 PM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] World Graphics and Halos > > Yes... > > Preferences resetHaloSpecifications "works," but notice that when > selecting a "plain old" Morph (like Morph new), it is overwritten by > the background color... > > Rob > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 3:20 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > > wrote: > Ok I got it and I opened an issue. > > Stef > > On Mar 16, 2009, at 11:52 AM, Gary Chambers wrote: > > > Not one of mine... > > The halo item in question is the addPaintBgdHandle which is still > > present in > > the images but removed. > > Preferences resetHaloSpecifications needs to be invoked. > > > > Regards, Gary > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:12 AM > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] World Graphics and Halos > > > > > >> Once you arrive to a fix point > >> let me know what I should integrate. > >> Stef > >> > >> On Mar 15, 2009, at 12:24 PM, Gary Chambers wrote: > >> > >>> I noticed the halo problem in the dev image too. Resetting the > halo > >>> specs is needed since one has been removed... > >>> > >>> Regards, Gary > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: Rob Rothwell > >>> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:35 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] World Graphics and Halos > >>> > >>> Yep...that seemed to fix it! > >>> > >>> Now if I could just figure out how to remove a Morph from the > World > >>> without Halos! > >>> > >>> If I do System->About it is so big now that it won't all fit on my > >>> screen, so I can't reach the ok button to close it and I am stuck > >>> with it! > >>> > >>> Rob > >>> > >>> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 7:11 PM, Henrik Sperre Johansen > >>> <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no > >>>> wrote: > >>> Attached a .cs to the issue with a fix, also including the > solution > >>> Gary suggested for the taskbar-issue that was reported. > >>> (I don't know how to remove methods in .cs files, and haven't yet > >>> gotten around to learn how to make slices, so > >>> BorderedMorph>>areasRemainingToFill: would have to be removed by > >>> hand..) > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Henry > >>> > >>> On 14.03.2009 22:04, Rob Rothwell wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Done. > >>>> > >>>> Issues 655 > >>>> > >>>> On Mar 14, 2009, at 8:14 PM, Rob Rothwell wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi all, > >>>>> > >>>>> Open up a 10250 dev image and click anywhere within the bounds > of > >>>>> the "Pharo" graphic. > >>>>> > >>>>> The world menu pops up and leaves part of itself behind when you > >>>>> click somewhere else on the screen. > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- > project > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project________… > >>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- > project > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pharo-project mailing list > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project________… > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 17, 2009