March 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo a VMs

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Is it fair to say "all _recent_ VMs?" A few months back, I had problems with older w32 vms at least. It was obvious: complete freeze of the GUI on startup. I switched to a VM I got from 3.10 with no problems, and then switched to Bryce's Exupery VMs (win and Linux) more recently. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Alexandre Bergel Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 3:46 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo a VMs All VM on which Squeak run may be safely used with Pharo. This may change in the future with the introduction of closures. Cheers, Alexandre On 20 Mar 2009, at 21:59, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > Hi men! > > I know very little about VMs but I have a very simple question, which > vms are 100% compatibles with Pharo ? > > I know standard vm, cog, exupery and hydra. > > And which of them that are compatible with pharo is the most > "performant" ? > > thanks, > > Mariano > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Mickael system submission Slice merging problem

by Michael Rueger

StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > what will happen with Test (which contains already some tests....) > > SystemChangeNotification-Tests-sd.11.mcz > Tests-sd.46.mcz > Tests-System-Digital Signatures-sd.2.mcz > Tests-System-Object Events-sd.2.mcz > Tests-SystemChangeNotification-sd.2.mcz > > So I think that we should have the contents of Tests as packages and > remove Tests as top package. > I will do that in a second time. > Is is ok for you? Sounds good to me :-) Thanks! Michael

March 21, 2009

[Pharo-project] [ANN] 10257 System Package creation

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

with this version System have now packages So far I learned that merging is quite broken when only moving between packages both merge tools do not work and this is probably a MC problem Pavel I got a conflict wiht the more general beep. I reverted and hope this is ok. What is left to do Dealing with the Tests standalone packages and the three new packages containing tests. SystemChangeNotification-Tests-sd.11.mcz Tests-sd.46.mcz Tests-System-Digital Signatures-sd.2.mcz Tests-System-Object Events-sd.2.mcz Tests-SystemChangeNotification-sd.2.mcz Now leaving, let me know if this is ok. What energy spent for just creating packages. Stef

March 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Mickael system submission Slice merging problem

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Mike I found the problem (besides the merging problem): what I did is to load and revert the conflicts when necessary. I also fixed platform initializtioant invocation. Then I fixed a bug in the scriptLoader that was using space as separator. I will publish soon a new version if I succeed. Then I have the following concern: what will happen with Test (which contains already some tests....) SystemChangeNotification-Tests-sd.11.mcz Tests-sd.46.mcz Tests-System-Digital Signatures-sd.2.mcz Tests-System-Object Events-sd.2.mcz Tests-SystemChangeNotification-sd.2.mcz So I think that we should have the contents of Tests as packages and remove Tests as top package. I will do that in a second time. Is is ok for you? Stef On Mar 21, 2009, at 2:11 PM, Michael Rueger wrote: > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> Hi mike >> >> could you redo you system organization changes? > > I will take a look. > All the slice should do is to exchange packaging, it is not supposed > to > change any code at all. If there have been changes in the meantime, I > simply need to do re-packaging again. > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] {Spam?} Re: I need some advice (was Re: [squeak-dev] Organising and Documenting Micro-Universes in Squeaksource)

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Keith, Interestingly, I could make only minor modifications, and write that same paragraph with Squeak as the stone wall. The Squeak community ignored many wonderful ideas over a period of years of maintenance and incremental development; IMHO, look there to explain the numerous forks. Pharo has a stated objective of breaking what needs to be broken to make progress, and it's not even at a first release yet. You seem to think that the world will be a great place if all the Squeak forks can share code. What about VW, Dolphin, X, etc.? In the spirit of cooperation that you demand from the alpha versions of Pharo, Squeak could have, years ago, done something about its isolation of users of other dialects via its unique handling of underscores. The Pharo team is not being rude; they are focused on a huge task for the good of research, developers, users/customers, and Smalltalk. There is no animosity toward Squeak; there is determination to eliminate incompatibilities and cruft in general. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Keith Hodges Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 5:43 AM [snip] If you wonder why I keep banging on about this, I have over 40 packages that I maintain both publically and as part of my work. I have gone to an extreme amount of effort to try and minimise the pain, and the pharo guys are ignoring the IDEAS and the code, and therefore making unnecessary work for everyone. Keith

March 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] I need some advice (was Re: [squeak-dev] Organising and Documenting Micro-Universes in Squeaksource)

by Keith Hodges

> Keithy, what you proposing is change the development process pattern > which people used to do for a years now, to a new, > not yet clearly evaluated paradigms. > Igor, I don't see any change in development process at all, because there is no existing development process for writing a package that is supported in multiple forks of squeak. > I think you should be aware that forcing people to change their > development style will meet a certain oppression. From your side, as > an evangelist of a new approach, it very important to show how easy & > painless the new process is going comparing to old one. Write > tutorials , show simple 1.2.3. steps etc etc. Blaming the people that > they keep using old development techniques is not the way to go. > I am not forcing people to change their development style, the issue here has nothing to do with development style. The issue here is that I started a dialog, and I made an effort to move what was unmaintained proprietary getting-ever-more-bespoke-per-image code, into loadable packages, not tied to any one image, and into the public arena, owned by the whole community, and maintained on behalf of the whole community. This was in response to the visionary direction expressed by all parties, to work for smaller leaner and meaner kernel images. The pharo team are actively and purposefully working in the opposite direction, that's the problem. I made a lot of effort to make that dialog possible. For SUnit that dialog was initiated three years ago by making the repositories for SUnit available on squeaksource with open access, and providing a dummy SUnit that can be used to make SUnit unloadable from the main image, and by inviting participation. For Monticello it involved a lot of work merging all of the existing forks. My complaint is that the pharo guys are not participating in that dialog at all they have made no commits to that open repository. They have rudely forked a maintained code base, and they are "we have to maintain/take control" of code that is now community owned. The issue has nothing to do with the code quality or otherwise, it has nothing to do with a change in development style. The issue is one of philosophical choices being made by the leadership of the pharo team, as evidenced by daily contributions to the mailing list, which promote and demonstrate an exclusive rather than participatory attitude. Keith

March 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Mickael system submission Slice merging problem

by Michael Rueger

StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi mike > > could you redo you system organization changes? I will take a look. All the slice should do is to exchange packaging, it is not supposed to change any code at all. If there have been changes in the meantime, I simply need to do re-packaging again. Michael

March 21, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Mickael system submission Slice merging problem

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I tried to load one by one the package and revert the conflicts when necessary. It somehow succeeded but now I have problem because the scriptLoader behavior does not work when trying to reload them. I have to investigate that further. I will have a look later. Stef On Mar 21, 2009, at 1:46 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi mike > > could you redo you system organization changes? > I checked with lukas we get a problem with the two merging tools :). > > Else what I can do is to keep track of the conflicts by hand (only a > few) and load then revert. > Because apparently MC does let me merge directly your changes. > > I can try to do the managing of your changes in late afternoon today. > After I really want to work on the closures (but I have some important > administration to do > by tomorrow). > > Stef > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 21, 2009

[Pharo-project] Mickael system submission Slice merging problem

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi mike could you redo you system organization changes? I checked with lukas we get a problem with the two merging tools :). Else what I can do is to keep track of the conflicts by hand (only a few) and load then revert. Because apparently MC does let me merge directly your changes. I can try to do the managing of your changes in late afternoon today. After I really want to work on the closures (but I have some important administration to do by tomorrow). Stef

March 21, 2009

[Pharo-project] if you want to reproduce my merge conflict bug

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

take 10256 merge the inbox slice made by michael press conflict -> DNU Using the old merging tool I cannot keep or reject (buttons not activated) when I press diff/install I get a DNU Stef

March 21, 2009