March 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] {Spam?} Re: Which Squeak problem do you try to solve

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Markus, I hesitate to think I could say it any better than Stef did. I can, however, say it differently. The answer to your question is "All of them." Obviously, that will not happen in one release, as witnessed by the milestones on the wiki. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 4:47 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: {Spam?} Re: [Pharo-project] Which Squeak problem do you try to solve Markus We loved Squeak: I'm amongst the guy with marcus that did so much etoy and squeak presentations... We translated etoy books in french, german.... We wrote SqueakByExample, we gave lecture all around europe.... We produced a robust release (3.9) We pushed unit tests in squeak. But but but we got burnt to the point of being sick of smalltalk because of code rot and lack of consciousness. Squeak nearly killed our fun and before turning to ruby or python we gave a try to do pharo. Did you look at the code of squeak Project Etoy PasteUpMorph Morph classes? if not I suggest you do it :) This is striking. Take for example Project>>enter: returningFlag revert: revertFlag saveForRevert: saveForRevert Pharo is not an exploratory project. We want to have a good open source smalltalk. Eventually with a scripting syntax, closure, modules, new mop, new files library, unicode support, clean compiler, ..... better IDE, refactoring, better Lint rules, smaller memory footprint. We want to make sure that people can invent good/excellent sotfware system with pharo and at the same time we want to reinvent/rethink smalltalk. So this will be difficult because users will complain but they will get a better system: more tests, more documentation, better design.... Even rebuild etoy on top of it. But only on top not everywhere inside. So we free to join. Now pharo is not a democracy there is no voting board process (because we were with goran the guys that started the squeakfoundation): we will let the community discuss, propose, argue, **send code** and at the end if there is a conflict we will decide (adrian, marcus, mickael, and me) Normally this will be a rare case. We can decide to ask somebody to join the board but this is our decision. We will be transparent, all our decisions are public. Now as a contributor you can really get an impact: alain/gary are a clear examples of that -- we value their code action -- alain removed MVC and isMorphic. So we will always consider your contributions and tell you why we do not integrate them, we will always consider code that improve the system. Stef > After reading your interesting project website, I'm still not quite > sure which (Squeak) problem do you try to solve with Pharo? Or is it > more an exploratory project? > > Thanks in advance for any reply > > Markus Boehm > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Plugins overview

by Michael Rueger

Torsten Bergmann wrote: > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> If you want that I try it tell me where I can find it. >> Then another question is >> what is the fallback if people do not have the plugin (I mean >> something else than getting a primitive failed). > > > Dear Santa, > > it would be nice to have a page on the pharo-project website > with an overview and downloadable precompiled versions of all the > plugins available. Dear Torsten, is on its way. Santa (aka Michael who was supposed to start this two weeks ago)

March 26, 2009

[Pharo-project] Plugins overview

by Torsten Bergmann

StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > If you want that I try it tell me where I can find it. > Then another question is > what is the fallback if people do not have the plugin (I mean > something else than getting a primitive failed). Dear Santa, it would be nice to have a page on the pharo-project website with an overview and downloadable precompiled versions of all the plugins available. Name ! Win32 ! Mac ! Linux ! ------------------------------------------------------- OSProcess ! OSProcessPlugin.dll ! ... ! ... ! SqueakFFIPrims ! SqueakFFIPrims.dll ! ! ! ... I know that in Squeakland everybody works on a dev-machine with the latest compiler and vmmaker tool chain installed - but in the pharo land things should be more accessible (from a website). Thanks T. -- Neu: GMX FreeDSL Komplettanschluss mit DSL 6.000 Flatrate + Telefonanschluss fÃ¼r nur 17,95 Euro/mtl.!* http://dsl.gmx.de/?ac=OM.AD.PD003K11308T4569a

March 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Settings + Menu

by Alain Plantec

Hi Henrik Henrik Johansen a Ã©crit : > Nice! > Haven't had time to delve deep in the code, but installing went fine. > One thing I feel would be useful is some more class-comments, > yes, I have to document more, this is the next step. > for example in the core-package explaining each setting type, when to > use it over another (FixedSetting vs Setting), etc. > so far use examples implemented in SettingSandBox[12] > One thing I was wondering after reading the declaration parts in > previous mails was how to add an item to an existing setting's list (alÃ¡ > SettingSandBox1>> themeSetting) in a separate package (and remove it if > package is unloaded), the pragmas make this doable I guess? > You only need to declare your settings in your package. try it: ------------------ - Open the setting tree with "SystemSettingTree new open" - load SettingSandBox1 package you are now able to browse all settings of SettingSandBox1 - then unload SettingSandBox1 package you see that all settings declared in SettingSandBox1 are not viewed anymore ----------------- this is the magic of pragmas (see PragmaCollector class) if you implement a package named 'XXXX', then in XXX, you can have a class named XXXSettings which holds settings declarations (implemented as methods in XXXSettings class). When you load your package, the settings are here and you can use them. Thanks to pragma, the SystemSettingTree browser is able to discover currently installed settings on the fly. Nothing else is needed. This will be exactly the same with the world menu. Imagine you want an entry in the world menu for your application named XXXBrowser. then, in class XXXSettings class, implements the following menu settings: in order to have a submenu: wmXXX <worldMenu> ^ (SettingManager newMenu: 'XXX...') order: 2.1; "just after the second menu item but before the third one" line: true "I want a menu line after my item". and your XXXBrowser open item in your submenu wmXXXBrowserOpen <worldMenu> ^ (SettingManager newMenu: 'Browser' translated) target: XXXBrowser; parent: wmXXX; selector: #open "I guess XXXBrowser class understands #open" or wmXXXBrowserOpen <worldMenu> ^ (SettingManager newMenu: 'Browser' translated) parent: wmXXX; target: [XXXBrowser new window]; selector: #openInWorld and for another XXX related tool wmXXXConfigurationOpen <worldMenu> ^ (SettingManager newMenu: 'Configuration' translated) parent: wmXXX; target: XXXConfig; order: 2; "after wmXXXBrowserOpen" selector: #open "I guess XXXConfig class understands #open" or, all together in a single method: wmXXX <worldMenu> ^ (SettingManager newMenuSiblings: 'XXX...' translated) order: 2.1; menus: { (SettingManager newMenu: 'Browser' translated) target: XXXBrowser; selector: #open. (SettingManager newMenu: 'Configuration' translated) target: XXXConfig; selector: #open } If you unload your package XXX, then XXXSettings and XXX menus are unloaded, that all. If you want to test it, take the new version I have attached to this mail. Hope it is clearer now Thanks for your remarks Cheers Alain > Cheers, > Henry > > Alain Plantec wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Here my last setting package version >> with a test package (Tests-System-Settings) :) >> >> I've also added a Menu part which allows the using of >> pragma for menu discovering and assembling on the fly. >> This addon fully reuse what is done for settings. >> The idea is the same: use pragma within particular methods >> which are defining menu items (thanks to Lukas again for the idea ;-) ) >> The menu assembler is able to collect them and to popup the menu >> dynamically. >> >> The consequences are >> - no need for TheWorldMenu class and >> - this would be the end of #registerOpenCommand: and >> #unregisterOpenCommand:. >> >> As for settings, the main benefit is that menu items are brought by >> packages. >> An application specific menu can be added anywhere in the world menu. >> One could also use this feature in order to allow user-defined menu >> entries. >> >> As an example, I've re-defined a part of the world menu. >> it is implemented in MenuSettings class (package SettingSandBox1). >> Such a menu is dynamically assembled and is popup very quickly. >> So I think that there would be no more need for a world menu instance >> kept alive in the system. >> >> you can try it with: >> >> WorldMenuAssembler new doPopUpMenu >> >> You can also use >> >> SystemMenuTree new open >> >> in order to browse all menu entries. >> It is only a very simple version. >> Maybe it could be used in order to implement a 'menu editor' tool: >> define your menus and generate corresponding code. >> >> >> Here are two examples of methods with menu pragma from MenuSettings >> class. >> >> - the Save item : a simple item with one target and one selector >> wmSave >> <worldMenu> >> ^ (SettingManager newMenu: 'Save') target: SmalltalkImage current; >> selector: #saveSession; >> previous: #wmSystemSettings; >> description: 'save the current version of the image on disk' >> >> - the ToolsSet item set : a multi node with a collection of menu items >> wmToolSet >> <worldMenu> >> ^ (SettingManager newMenuSiblings name: 'Toolset') >> line: true; >> menus: (ToolSet default mainMenuItems >> collect: [:item | (SettingManager newMenu: item first) >> target: ToolSet default; >> selector: item second]) >> >> Cheers >> >> alain >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > >

March 26, 2009

[Pharo-project] call for mcm support in Squeaksource

by Torsten Bergmann

MCM = monticello configuration maps (you can open a Monticello Configurations browser from the world menu) But the more interesting question is who is Santa and will he find the time to update squeaksource? ;) Torsten >What are mcm files ? > >Alexandre >On 26 Mar 2009, at 13:55, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Dear wonderful great (no super great) maintainers of the great (no >> really great) >> gorgeous squeaksource.... >> Ok dear Santa >> It would be great to have mcm support on squeaksource because >> right now I cannot move mcm files between project nor move their >> dependent files. >> >> Stef >> -- Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehÃ¶rt? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger01

March 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Unicode merge

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I tried and the french copy and paste seems to work I copied some text for the wikipedia page. search Â· suchen Â· rechercher Â· szukaj Â· æ¤ç´¢ Â· ricerca Â· zoeken Â· busca Â· buscar Â· Ð¿Ð¾Ð¸ÑÐº Â· sÃ¶k Â· æç´¢ Â· sÃ¸k Â· haku Â· cerca Â· Ð¿Ð¾ÑÑÐº Â· ara Â· cÄutare Â· hledÃ¡nÃ Â· keresÃ©s Â· suk Â· serÄu Â· hÄ¾adaÅ¥ Â· sÃ¸g Â· FranÃ§ais LâencyclopÃ©die libre 774 000+ articles CatalÃ Â· Äesky Â· Dansk Â· Deutsch Â· English Â· EspaÃ±ol Â· Esperanto Â· FranÃ§ais Â· Bahasa Indonesia Â· Italiano Â· Magyar Â· Nederlands Â· æ¥æ¬èª Â· Norsk (bokmÃ¥l) Â· Polski Â· PortuguÃªs Â· Ð ÑÑÑÐºÐ¸Ð¹ Â· RomÃ¢nÄ Â· SlovenÄina Â· Suomi Â· Svenska Â· TÃ¼rkÃ§e Â· Ð£ÐºÑÐ°ÑÐ½ÑÑÐºÐ° Â· VolapÃ¼k Â· ä¸æ So I imagine that I will certainly do a couple of release in parallel to the closure code. Stef On Mar 26, 2009, at 2:26 PM, Michael Rueger wrote: > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> Ok I will try >> now in the goal of minimal core. how that will work? > > Depends on how minimal ;-) > > In the long (or even mid) term with the plugin the clipboard primtives > could be removed from the VM allowing to ship a version completely > without clipboard support. > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Unicode merge

by Michael Rueger

StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Ok I will try > now in the goal of minimal core. how that will work? Depends on how minimal ;-) In the long (or even mid) term with the plugin the clipboard primtives could be removed from the VM allowing to ship a version completely without clipboard support. Michael

March 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Unicode merge

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Ok I will try now in the goal of minimal core. how that will work? Stef On Mar 26, 2009, at 2:12 PM, Michael Rueger wrote: > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> If you want that I try it tell me where I can find it. >> Then another question is >> what is the fallback if people do not have the plugin (I mean >> something else than getting a primitive failed). > > You need the plugin as you would need the freetype one. It is > mandatory. > > http://impara.de/michael/ClipboardExtendedPlugin.bundle.zip > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Unicode merge

by Michael Rueger

StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > If you want that I try it tell me where I can find it. > Then another question is > what is the fallback if people do not have the plugin (I mean > something else than getting a primitive failed). You need the plugin as you would need the freetype one. It is mandatory. http://impara.de/michael/ClipboardExtendedPlugin.bundle.zip Michael

March 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] call for mcm support in Squeaksource

by Alexandre Bergel

What are mcm files ? Alexandre On 26 Mar 2009, at 13:55, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Dear wonderful great (no super great) maintainers of the great (no > really great) > gorgeous squeaksource.... > Ok dear Santa > It would be great to have mcm support on squeaksource because > right now I cannot move mcm files between project nor move their > dependent files. > > Stef > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

March 26, 2009