March 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Better documenting and consistency

by Robert Peters

I agree with this sentiment. I have been trying to learn Smalltalk with the help of 'Squeak by Example', but while it is a good read, it is almost useless as a reference. When I have a Python issue, I type (for example), "initialize multi-dimensional array Python" into Google and get 14,000 responses. Replace 'Python' with 'Smalltalk' and I get 2,000, most of which aren't about Smalltalk, and I still haven't found a code example. There are a number of books on-line, but some don't even have tables of contents or indexes, and they're all in .pdf, which makes them extremely cumbersome to use as references. I, of course, only speak for myself, but I am officially closing my current foray into Smalltalk. It's too hard to learn. There's not adequate reference material. There are very few code examples. If, at some point in the future, Smalltalk becomes easier to learn, I will try again. Until then, I'm going back to Python. I mentioned on the Pharo IRC channel that I was a Django developer, and would consider building a site to assist with getting the material inside these books onto the web, and I will continue to think about that. If there's any interest, please let me know. Kind regards, Robert Peters Having better comment than buildWith: aBuilder ^self subclassResponsibility is needed if we want to continue to bash Java people. So what do we do? Stef -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Better-documenting-and-consistency-tp2542850p2545717.h… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

March 27, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Filing in lost changes is broken?

by Oscar Nierstrasz

OK, I tried now with the latest version. I evaluate "Demo new hello" in a workspace, implement the class and the method form the debugger, then quit the image. When I try to recover the lost changes, the methods are there, but the doit to create the class is missing. It seems that creating classes is not always logged in the changes file ... - on On Mar 27, 2009, at 13:55, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi oscar > > did you use the last version? > > I noticed that running the tests (probably one by one) polluted the > cs. > > stef > >> I tried to recover changes after a crash yesterday and could not. >> >> I just experimented to verify this: >> >> - open a fresh image and rename it >> - create a class with a hello world method >> - quit without saving >> - restart the image >> - Tools > Recover lost changes will show you the changes >> - Select and file in does not work >> >> Is this an issue, or am I doing something wrong? >> >> - on >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 27, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Better documenting and consistency

by Damien Cassou

On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Keith Hodges <keith_hodges(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > I think it should return the window, and the window should respond to > #model. If we cant decide upon a convention for #open, then perhaps > adding #openInWindow, or #openWindow, which does return the window. I like the convention of #open because it makes things clear and simple. It's easy to access both the model and the window and only one method is required. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

March 27, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Filing in lost changes is broken?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi oscar did you use the last version? I noticed that running the tests (probably one by one) polluted the cs. stef > I tried to recover changes after a crash yesterday and could not. > > I just experimented to verify this: > > - open a fresh image and rename it > - create a class with a hello world method > - quit without saving > - restart the image > - Tools > Recover lost changes will show you the changes > - Select and file in does not work > > Is this an issue, or am I doing something wrong? > > - on > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 27, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Namespaces for Squeak

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 6:17 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > Thanks > see http://www.squeaksource.com/Namespace.html we did that some years > ago > But we have to change its design because we separated trait/class/ > global binding and it was not good. > > I think that we need namespaces but not a la VW. So names seems good > (but I can be wrong) > > About Names... > - import: '*' is not a so good design decision (we see it daily with > Java) but it is probably necessary. > - One namespace per category wow! Probably for a start. :) but > clearly if we want one per package (which I hope > we want). > - The export clause is nice to have (even if I'm not sure about > export: from: since export from itself self can be > more important than from another namespace). > > All in all even if I can often argue with andreas I like his design > (may be I'm wrong). > I like the fact that there is no nesting. I prefer that design if I > understand it correctly > over macro like expansion as proned by goran (even if his solution > was backward compatible). > It is close to what we did with > http://www.squeaksource.com/Namespace.html > ( we did not have an export > close if I remember correctly but were thinking about adding one). > Now I would like to see where we defined them. Ideally I would put > them on Package. > There is also this: http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces

March 27, 2009

[Pharo-project] Filing in lost changes is broken?

by Oscar Nierstrasz

I tried to recover changes after a crash yesterday and could not. I just experimented to verify this: - open a fresh image and rename it - create a class with a hello world method - quit without saving - restart the image - Tools > Recover lost changes will show you the changes - Select and file in does not work Is this an issue, or am I doing something wrong? - on

March 27, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Better documenting and consistency

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

yes something like that would be better. Stef On Mar 27, 2009, at 1:26 PM, Keith Hodges wrote: > >> >> is needed if we want to continue to bash Java people. >> So what do we do? >> Stef >> >> > I wrote Scripter for scripting UI elements. The inconsistencies in > what > #open returns is a problem. > > I think it should return the window, and the window should respond to > #model. If we cant decide upon a convention for #open, then perhaps > adding #openInWindow, or #openWindow, which does return the window. > > Keith > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 27, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Better documenting and consistency

by Keith Hodges

> > is needed if we want to continue to bash Java people. > So what do we do? > Stef > > I wrote Scripter for scripting UI elements. The inconsistencies in what #open returns is a problem. I think it should return the window, and the window should respond to #model. If we cant decide upon a convention for #open, then perhaps adding #openInWindow, or #openWindow, which does return the window. Keith

March 27, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Namespaces for Squeak

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks see http://www.squeaksource.com/Namespace.html we did that some years ago But we have to change its design because we separated trait/class/ global binding and it was not good. I think that we need namespaces but not a la VW. So names seems good (but I can be wrong) About Names... - import: '*' is not a so good design decision (we see it daily with Java) but it is probably necessary. - One namespace per category wow! Probably for a start. :) but clearly if we want one per package (which I hope we want). - The export clause is nice to have (even if I'm not sure about export: from: since export from itself self can be more important than from another namespace). All in all even if I can often argue with andreas I like his design (may be I'm wrong). I like the fact that there is no nesting. I prefer that design if I understand it correctly over macro like expansion as proned by goran (even if his solution was backward compatible). It is close to what we did with http://www.squeaksource.com/Namespace.html ( we did not have an export close if I remember correctly but were thinking about adding one). Now I would like to see where we defined them. Ideally I would put them on Package. Stef On Mar 27, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > FYI: see http://www.squeaksource.com/Names.html > > MIT License > -- > Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehÃ¶rt? Der kann`s mit > allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger01 > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 27, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] why can't I file out a package?

by Oscar Nierstrasz

Oh, I think there is a misunderstanding. I mean the OB system browser does not let me file out a package. Of course I can go through MC to get at the fileout by saving the package and opening the mcz. - on On 26 Mar 2009, at 23:36, Keith Hodges wrote: > Michael Rueger wrote: >> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Oscar Nierstrasz <oscar(a)iam.unibe.ch >> > wrote: >> >>> I can file out a class, but not a package it seems. Should this be >>> an >>> issue, or am I missing something? >>> >> >> In general there seems to be the notion in MC that there is no easy >> way to file out things. What I would have liked to have while working >> on the unicode release is the ability to file out changes between >> packages. >> >> Santa? ;-) >> >> Michael >> >> > If you mean like a diff package.... repository menu in the MC browser > has an option. If you want this as a source you will have to open the > ..mcd file > > Keith > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 27, 2009