February 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Call for UI gripes

by Igor Stasenko

2009/2/8 Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com>: > I'll make the drop shadows themable for system windows. > The default way Morphic does drop shadows is quite inefficient. > Right, i think it would be wise to provide own implementation of drawDropShadowOn: for SystemWindow, to draw simple rectangle (or group of rectangles to avoid excessive fills) since we know that systemwindow is rectangular beforehead. > Regards, Gary > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 7:23 PM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Call for UI gripes > > >> 2009/2/7 Ramon Leon <ramon.leon(a)allresnet.com>: >>>> The biggest concern I have right now is speed. I'm not >>>> saying Pharo is too slow; I'm simply admitting that I do not >>>> know whether it is fast enough for some of the things I want to do. >>> >>> +10 to this. >>> >>> The UI is looking really great lately, but overall the experience is it's >>> just too slow. Cracking open a raw squeak base image reminds me how >>> snappy >>> the UI used to be. Not really complaining, it's totally bearable, but >>> it'd >>> sure be nice if the pretty UI was quick and snappy, and you are asking. >>> >> Sure thing >> MessageTally spyOn:[self fullDrawOn: World assuredCanvas] "where self >> is an OB system window morph" >> >> 16.7% {10ms} BalloonEngine>>copyLoopFaster >> 11.7% {7ms} SimpleBorder>>frameRectangle:on: >> 6.7% {4ms} Array(SequenceableCollection)>>select: >> 5.0% {3ms} ByteString(String)>>= >> 5.0% {3ms} SmallInteger(Number)>>to:by:do: >> 5.0% {3ms} GrafPort(BitBlt)>>primDisplayString:from:to:map:xTable:kern: >> 5.0% {3ms} BorderStyle>>frameRectangle:on: >> 3.3% {2ms} ByteSymbol>>species >> 3.3% {2ms} ByteString class(String class)>>new: >> >> total 61ms. >> >> some hot points crying to be optimized: >> cache the OBMonticelloPackageNode>>classCategories , which get >> rebuilt each time you draw the window. >> this can make following numbers much smaller: >> 5.0% {3ms} ByteString(String)>>= >> 6.7% {4ms} Array(SequenceableCollection)>>select: >> 3.3% {2ms} ByteString class(String class)>>new: >> >> Making SystemWindow>>drawDropShadowOn: to do nothing makes a difference: >> >> [10 timesRepeat: [self fullDrawOn: World assuredCanvas ]] timeToRun >> with shadows: 530 >> without: 473 >> ~ 10% speedup >> >> Changing the theme makes some difference (no shadows/with shadows): >> - Watery 2: 50/60 ms >> - Standard Squeak: 38/43 ms >> - Soft Squeak: 46/55 ms >> - Vistary: 56/62ms >> (keep in mind these numbers are polluted with messageTally) >> >> As to me, the theme variancy is quite acceptable - a most complex >> theme (with transulency) is drawn just 50% slower than most simple >> one. >> >> As for, >> 3.3% {2ms} ByteString class(String class)>>new: >> >> Total count of ByteString>>new: calls during >> GlobalCounter reset. >> self fullDrawOn: World assuredCanvas. >> GlobalCounter counters copy inspect >> >> is 7146, >> which again makes me look suspicious at OB here.. Hey! Are we drawing, >> or processing a text?!?! >> >> >>> Ramon Leon >>> http://onsmalltalk.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Feb. 8, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Call for UI gripes

by Gary Chambers

I'll make the drop shadows themable for system windows. The default way Morphic does drop shadows is quite inefficient. Regards, Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Call for UI gripes > 2009/2/7 Ramon Leon <ramon.leon(a)allresnet.com>: >>> The biggest concern I have right now is speed. I'm not >>> saying Pharo is too slow; I'm simply admitting that I do not >>> know whether it is fast enough for some of the things I want to do. >> >> +10 to this. >> >> The UI is looking really great lately, but overall the experience is it's >> just too slow. Cracking open a raw squeak base image reminds me how >> snappy >> the UI used to be. Not really complaining, it's totally bearable, but >> it'd >> sure be nice if the pretty UI was quick and snappy, and you are asking. >> > Sure thing > MessageTally spyOn:[self fullDrawOn: World assuredCanvas] "where self > is an OB system window morph" > > 16.7% {10ms} BalloonEngine>>copyLoopFaster > 11.7% {7ms} SimpleBorder>>frameRectangle:on: > 6.7% {4ms} Array(SequenceableCollection)>>select: > 5.0% {3ms} ByteString(String)>>= > 5.0% {3ms} SmallInteger(Number)>>to:by:do: > 5.0% {3ms} GrafPort(BitBlt)>>primDisplayString:from:to:map:xTable:kern: > 5.0% {3ms} BorderStyle>>frameRectangle:on: > 3.3% {2ms} ByteSymbol>>species > 3.3% {2ms} ByteString class(String class)>>new: > > total 61ms. > > some hot points crying to be optimized: > cache the OBMonticelloPackageNode>>classCategories , which get > rebuilt each time you draw the window. > this can make following numbers much smaller: > 5.0% {3ms} ByteString(String)>>= > 6.7% {4ms} Array(SequenceableCollection)>>select: > 3.3% {2ms} ByteString class(String class)>>new: > > Making SystemWindow>>drawDropShadowOn: to do nothing makes a difference: > > [10 timesRepeat: [self fullDrawOn: World assuredCanvas ]] timeToRun > with shadows: 530 > without: 473 > ~ 10% speedup > > Changing the theme makes some difference (no shadows/with shadows): > - Watery 2: 50/60 ms > - Standard Squeak: 38/43 ms > - Soft Squeak: 46/55 ms > - Vistary: 56/62ms > (keep in mind these numbers are polluted with messageTally) > > As to me, the theme variancy is quite acceptable - a most complex > theme (with transulency) is drawn just 50% slower than most simple > one. > > As for, > 3.3% {2ms} ByteString class(String class)>>new: > > Total count of ByteString>>new: calls during > GlobalCounter reset. > self fullDrawOn: World assuredCanvas. > GlobalCounter counters copy inspect > > is 7146, > which again makes me look suspicious at OB here.. Hey! Are we drawing, > or processing a text?!?! > > >> Ramon Leon >> http://onsmalltalk.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 8, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Call for UI gripes

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

tx igor On Feb 8, 2009, at 12:49 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > Some measures: > > i turning off drawing a specific pane (panexx setProperty: > #errorOnDraw toValue: true) in OB browser window, and then do > [self fullDrawOn: World assuredCanvas] timeToRun > to determine which pane takes most time to draw: > > - everything on (Watery 2 theme) > 50ms > > - turning off drawing a package pane (1st one) > 37ms ( - 13 ms) > > - turning off drawing a class list pane (2nd one) > 30ms ( -7 ms) > > - turning off drawing a category list pane (3rd one) > 26ms (-4 ms) > > - turning off drawing a method list pane (4th one) > 20ms (-6 ms) > > - turning off drawing an enchanced button pane (a row of buttons in > the middle of window) > 10ms (-10 ms) > > - turning off drawing a method source pane > 8ms (-2 ms) -- ATM there was 4 lines of text > > at this stage there are a little left to turn off - a window is > covered by an areas filled with red color. Let us assume that 8ms is > our sacrifice to draw a window :) > The numbers speak for themselves, and indicating which areas need > attention to improve rendering speed. > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Feb. 8, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Website width problematic on small beamers

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

What you were doing illegal promotion :) Stef On Feb 8, 2009, at 12:33 PM, Damien Pollet wrote: > Hi, > > I just shamelessly plugged the pharo homepage (during a not completely > unrelated talk at FOSDEM), but when the browser window is really small > (constrained to a 800x600 beamer), the logo and menu stick halfway > under the window border on the left, and scrolling does not reveal > them or is not possible at all. > > -- > Damien Pollet > type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Feb. 8, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] About the download page

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

yes the google site is not for beginner On Feb 8, 2009, at 12:12 PM, Michael Rueger wrote: > wouldn't most of the problems fixed by pointing beginners to the one > click version of Pharo? > > Michael > > On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 8:14 AM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand > <hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Let's suppose I'm a first visitor reading this page: >> >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Downloads?tm=2 >> >> " ... A link is given below to get the image ... " >> There are various links below, specifically what is that link? >> (Suggestion: >> anchor the link word) >> >> " ... You can either upgrade your image ... " >> Any hint or link explaining how? >> >> " ... The virtual machine may be downloaded from ... " >> Suggestion: >> " ... The virtual machine [for the X Operating System] may be >> downloaded >> from ... " and then >> "The virtual machine [for the Y Operating System] may be downloaded >> from ... >> " >> >> " ... The lastest VM available ... " >> " ... The latest VM available ... " (typo) >> >> " Pharo files are still hosted at the Pharo INRIA project site. " >> From an user point of view I don't know why that would be relevant. >> >> " Please head over to http://gforge.inria.fr/frs/?group_id=1299 " >> To get the image ? the image and VM ? to choose downloading options ? >> (what I mean is that isn't clear the "image" reference at the >> beggining of >> page refers to this link or the "specific files" link below). >> >> " Here are some links to specific files: >> Pharo Core: Pharo0.1Core-10204.zip " >> Suggestion: >> " If you want to do/have/use X, you can download Pharo Core... " >> " If you want to do/have/use Y, you can download Pharo Developer... " >> etc. >> >> Final notes: >> -There is no "Installation instructions" guidelines or link, this >> commonly >> is: "When download is completed, uncompress.... get a >> mysterious .sources >> file, and then copy the .exe there......" >> -Still remain assumptions for a first visitor, like he already >> knows what is >> an image, a virtual machine. Many first visitors are outsiders and >> they >> download first, read later (show me don't tell me). My suggestion >> is to >> provide a link/page in key words "image", "virtual machine", I >> guess there >> are many sites where this is explained easily; and a reference >> link, to the >> SqueakByExample book for example, for people who wants to read more. >> Just a couple of suggestions. >> >> Cheers >> >> HernÃ¡n >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Feb. 8, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Call for UI gripes

by Igor Stasenko

Some measures: i turning off drawing a specific pane (panexx setProperty: #errorOnDraw toValue: true) in OB browser window, and then do [self fullDrawOn: World assuredCanvas] timeToRun to determine which pane takes most time to draw: - everything on (Watery 2 theme) 50ms - turning off drawing a package pane (1st one) 37ms ( - 13 ms) - turning off drawing a class list pane (2nd one) 30ms ( -7 ms) - turning off drawing a category list pane (3rd one) 26ms (-4 ms) - turning off drawing a method list pane (4th one) 20ms (-6 ms) - turning off drawing an enchanced button pane (a row of buttons in the middle of window) 10ms (-10 ms) - turning off drawing a method source pane 8ms (-2 ms) -- ATM there was 4 lines of text at this stage there are a little left to turn off - a window is covered by an areas filled with red color. Let us assume that 8ms is our sacrifice to draw a window :) The numbers speak for themselves, and indicating which areas need attention to improve rendering speed. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Feb. 8, 2009

[Pharo-project] Website width problematic on small beamers

by Damien Pollet

Hi, I just shamelessly plugged the pharo homepage (during a not completely unrelated talk at FOSDEM), but when the browser window is really small (constrained to a 800x600 beamer), the logo and menu stick halfway under the window border on the left, and scrolling does not reveal them or is not possible at all. -- Damien Pollet type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet

Feb. 8, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] About the download page

by Michael Rueger

wouldn't most of the problems fixed by pointing beginners to the one click version of Pharo? Michael On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 8:14 AM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand <hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Let's suppose I'm a first visitor reading this page: > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Downloads?tm=2 > > " ... A link is given below to get the image ... " > There are various links below, specifically what is that link? (Suggestion: > anchor the link word) > > " ... You can either upgrade your image ... " > Any hint or link explaining how? > > " ... The virtual machine may be downloaded from ... " > Suggestion: > " ... The virtual machine [for the X Operating System] may be downloaded > from ... " and then > "The virtual machine [for the Y Operating System] may be downloaded from ... > " > > " ... The lastest VM available ... " > " ... The latest VM available ... " (typo) > > " Pharo files are still hosted at the Pharo INRIA project site. " > From an user point of view I don't know why that would be relevant. > > " Please head over to http://gforge.inria.fr/frs/?group_id=1299 " > To get the image ? the image and VM ? to choose downloading options ? > (what I mean is that isn't clear the "image" reference at the beggining of > page refers to this link or the "specific files" link below). > > " Here are some links to specific files: > Pharo Core: Pharo0.1Core-10204.zip " > Suggestion: > " If you want to do/have/use X, you can download Pharo Core... " > " If you want to do/have/use Y, you can download Pharo Developer... " > etc. > > Final notes: > -There is no "Installation instructions" guidelines or link, this commonly > is: "When download is completed, uncompress.... get a mysterious .sources > file, and then copy the .exe there......" > -Still remain assumptions for a first visitor, like he already knows what is > an image, a virtual machine. Many first visitors are outsiders and they > download first, read later (show me don't tell me). My suggestion is to > provide a link/page in key words "image", "virtual machine", I guess there > are many sites where this is explained easily; and a reference link, to the > SqueakByExample book for example, for people who wants to read more. > Just a couple of suggestions. > > Cheers > > HernÃ¡n > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Feb. 8, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Call for UI gripes

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Yes I imagine OB is a bit complex :) On Feb 8, 2009, at 10:27 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > 2009/2/7 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> When I here that I'm like puzzled. >> We never said that we will not integrate code that speed up pharo. >> We started with marcus to clean morphic and there are certainly a >> large place for >> possible improvement. >> Now if you wait that we do it. May be it will happen or may be not. >> Because we have also quite busy agenda. >> > > OB is quite complex thing, and its hard to understand what it does for > outsider :) > > I just identified a few points, which can improve rendering speed by a > certain amount: > > a test code: > MessageTally spyOn:[self fullDrawOn: World assuredCanvas]. > > where 'self' is a mid-sized browser window displayed on screen, > non-obstructed with another morphs (Watery 2 theme). > > - default. > 60 ms > > - with override in SystemWindow>>drawDropShadowOn: aCanvas to do > nothing: > 51 ms > > - with override in OBMonticelloPackageNode>>classCategories to return > cached collection > 45 ms > > so, here we won 15 ms, which is 1/4 of total rendering time by > changing just two methods. > Of course, numbers may vary for different browser sizes (more time > spent on fills), and different data viewed (more lists traversal etc). > > I'm attached the changeset with patched method, but i'm not sure about > cache - it should be updated when user adds new category, and i don't > know how to hook to such events to flush the cache. I think that > people who know OB better could do that with ease. > > >> Stef >> >> >> On Feb 7, 2009, at 6:31 PM, Ramon Leon wrote: >> >>>> The biggest concern I have right now is speed. I'm not >>>> saying Pharo is too slow; I'm simply admitting that I do not >>>> know whether it is fast enough for some of the things I want to do. >>> >>> +10 to this. >>> >>> The UI is looking really great lately, but overall the experience is >>> it's >>> just too slow. Cracking open a raw squeak base image reminds me how >>> snappy >>> the UI used to be. Not really complaining, it's totally bearable, >>> but it'd >>> sure be nice if the pretty UI was quick and snappy, and you are >>> asking. >>> >>> Ramon Leon >>> http://onsmalltalk.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > <OB-render-speedup. > 1.cs>_______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 8, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Call for UI gripes

by Igor Stasenko

2009/2/7 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > When I here that I'm like puzzled. > We never said that we will not integrate code that speed up pharo. > We started with marcus to clean morphic and there are certainly a > large place for > possible improvement. > Now if you wait that we do it. May be it will happen or may be not. > Because we have also quite busy agenda. > OB is quite complex thing, and its hard to understand what it does for outsider :) I just identified a few points, which can improve rendering speed by a certain amount: a test code: MessageTally spyOn:[self fullDrawOn: World assuredCanvas]. where 'self' is a mid-sized browser window displayed on screen, non-obstructed with another morphs (Watery 2 theme). - default. 60 ms - with override in SystemWindow>>drawDropShadowOn: aCanvas to do nothing: 51 ms - with override in OBMonticelloPackageNode>>classCategories to return cached collection 45 ms so, here we won 15 ms, which is 1/4 of total rendering time by changing just two methods. Of course, numbers may vary for different browser sizes (more time spent on fills), and different data viewed (more lists traversal etc). I'm attached the changeset with patched method, but i'm not sure about cache - it should be updated when user adds new category, and i don't know how to hook to such events to flush the cache. I think that people who know OB better could do that with ease. > Stef > > > On Feb 7, 2009, at 6:31 PM, Ramon Leon wrote: > >>> The biggest concern I have right now is speed. I'm not >>> saying Pharo is too slow; I'm simply admitting that I do not >>> know whether it is fast enough for some of the things I want to do. >> >> +10 to this. >> >> The UI is looking really great lately, but overall the experience is >> it's >> just too slow. Cracking open a raw squeak base image reminds me how >> snappy >> the UI used to be. Not really complaining, it's totally bearable, >> but it'd >> sure be nice if the pretty UI was quick and snappy, and you are >> asking. >> >> Ramon Leon >> http://onsmalltalk.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Feb. 8, 2009