February 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Guys please sign the license agreement so that

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

thanks! put a nice stamp :) Stef On Feb 27, 2009, at 2:54 AM, Rob Rothwell wrote: > Ok...it may take a while to get there from the United States! > > Rob > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 6:19 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > > wrote: > we do not have problem in the future... > > http://pharo.gforge.inria.fr/licenseDocuments/ > > Thanks > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 27, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] MIMEdatabase fix?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I have problems to understand why this would be not reasonable that people load a give kom version for seaside on squeak and one for seaside on pharo. If you put too much constraints then do not cry after that squeak code is shitty because it is. On Feb 27, 2009, at 7:39 AM, Philippe Marschall wrote: > Michael Rueger wrote: >> Philippe Marschall wrote: >> >>>> There is actually on more method (attached) that we need to add to >>>> either Kom or Seaside to make Pharo and Squeak compatible on the >>>> API level. >>> Sorry but no, see previous posts. Have a look at Seaside2.8a1-pmm. >>> 583 >>> for what I would find acceptable. >> >> OK, can you explain how I should make Seaside work on both Pharo and >> Squeak? I spent two days figuring out a minimal set of changes that >> would not require doing some ugly hack testing for which underlying >> platform you are dealing with and you say that is not acceptable? You >> *want* ugly hacks? I don't understand... > > - Monkey patching either Seaside or Kom is not acceptable. We have > this > issue partially because Kom is monkey patching Squeak. > - Forking Seaside for Pharo is not acceptable. > - Relying on a forked Kom is not acceptable, we need to have a > consistent interface for Kom in both Squeak an Pharo. > > That kinda limits our options. > > Second the fix is not that ugly. It just sends #asString to > something it > expects to be a String. This is not a that uncommon idiom. And we > already have to do something way uglier for ensuring author initials. > > That's what happens if you break the API. You brake a lot of code and > cause a lot of pain for a lot of people. > > Cheers > Philippe > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Feb. 27, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] MIMEdatabase fix?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi philppe If seaside people does not help then you should not complain that Squeak sucks and that nothing is fixed. So what is important it to find what is reasonable to do. So either help and we will arrive to a fix point or don't complain for the next 5 years. Stef > Michael Rueger wrote: >> Michael Rueger wrote: >>> OK, here we go... >>> in the Pharo inbox there is a new version of Network-MIME and >>> KomHTTPServer. The Kom package should also work on Squeak. >> >> ok, one more thing ;-) >> Newer version of MIME package plus the attached change for Seaside >> makes >> at least the tests pass. > > -1 > > I don't have any interest at all to have a version of Seaside 2.8 for > Squeak and one for Pharo. > > If you absolutely have to you can make some unholy, brittle hacks like > we currently do for author initials to figure out if we're Squeak or > Pharo. Maybe even an #isPharo method. > > Cheers > Philippe > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Feb. 27, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] lisencing

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi esteban two questions: - what is the license of algernon? MIT I hope - then to sign the agreement this is easy you print the page and sign it. http://pharo.gforge.inria.fr/licenseDocuments/ Stef On Feb 26, 2009, at 7:42 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > Hi, > I just saw the list of pending packages for pharo-dev and I noted that > there is a package made by me (OB-Algernon), it is a little package > with few changes to algernon... but I have not signed the agreement > (because I thought that none of my codes was included in pharo) > So I ask: I have to sign the agreement? how? > (In any case, I want to sign the agreement "just in case" -that will > allow me to contribute to pharo, if I find the time-... is that > possible?) > > Cheers, > Esteban > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Feb. 27, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Aaah, the pain or ParagraphEditor refactoring ; -)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

do you think that this is a matter of running a profiler or that there is something consuming too much messages (double dispatch or something like that?) Do you know if its author would like to continue in a SummerTalk or related? Stef On Feb 26, 2009, at 8:33 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: >> Is there anything to look at though, just curious from a Sophie >> point of >> view how you approached the problem. > > Documentation: > > http://vst.ensm-douai.fr/Esug2008Media/uploads/1/safara-EsugAwards2008.pdf > > Implementation (a lot of work will be required): > > http://www.squeaksource.com/Safara.html > > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Feb. 27, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] lisencing

by Damien Cassou

Hi Esteban, On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 7:42 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I just saw the list of pending packages for pharo-dev and I noted that > there is a package made by me (OB-Algernon), it is a little package > with few changes to algernon... but I have not signed the agreement > (because I thought that none of my codes was included in pharo) > So I ask: I have to sign the agreement? how? > (In any case, I want to sign the agreement "just in case" -that will > allow me to contribute to pharo, if I find the time-... is that > possible?) http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/LicenseAgreement -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

Feb. 27, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Text editing (was: Re: Aaah, the pain or ParagraphEditor refactoring)

by Lukas Renggli

> Can you explain where the performance problems are in your approach? > And how do you define "too slow"? Also see my other mail. As I said, we didn't optimize yet, we wanted to first get the model right. AFAIK it always redraws the complete editor even when only the cursor position changes. Text is drawn character by character, to be able to have sophisticated graphical annotations. It is usable for small methods, but noticeably slower than ParagraphEditor. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Feb. 27, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Some issues with Pharo-dev build #10243

by Damien Cassou

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 10:07 PM, David RÃ¶thlisberger <squeak(a)webcitas.ch> wrote: > Just curious: Did you load this versions by hand? Because those versions of OB are > still alpha, so we have to expect dev-dev behavior in those. ;) pharo-dev is now based on #loadOBAlpha. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

Feb. 27, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Aaah, the pain or ParagraphEditor refactoring ; -)

by Lukas Renggli

> Lukas, can you make a more detailed overview,please, at what stage it > is, and why it too slow. > I wasn't aware it even exists! SafarÃ was one of the Google Summer of Code 2008 projects. Luigi Panzeri is the author of SafarÃ , I was mentoring him. I have it running in a 3.9 image together with OmniBrowser. 1. Load OB-Morphic-lr.45, OmniBrowser-lr.407 and OB-Standard-lr.323 from http://source.wiresong.ca/ob/. 2. Load RoelTyper-rw.60, Shout-lr.2, ECompletion-lr.93 and ECompletionOmniBrowser-dc.4 from http://source.lukas-renggli.ch/unsorted. 3. Load Safara-Core.LPM.16, Safara-Morphic-LPM.16 and Safara-Extensions-LPM.11 from http://www.squeaksource.com/Safara. 4. Execute SAMorphicPlatform install to use SafarÃ instead of the default ParagraphEditor. For small code snippets basic editing works reasonably well. For larger texts (more than a screen) redrawing is extremely slow (due to the fact that formatting is stored in ordered collections). Our goal was to first make it work, before optimizing. The code itself is solid and there are a couple of test cases. Some parts certainly require some refactoring to make them more extensible and easier to use. As you can see in the demo, the basic functionality such as text editing, text selection, syntax highlighting and contextual menus are there. Luigi was one of the best students I ever worked with. He worked very hard on SafarÃ and I am impressed by the result, especially given that he was relatively new to Smalltalk and Squeak when the project started. He has a strong background in Lisp and Emacs and therefore has good knowledge on the workings of an editor. I heard that he is interested to continue working on SafarÃ this summer. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Feb. 27, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] MIMEdatabase fix?

by Philippe Marschall

Michael Rueger wrote: > Philippe Marschall wrote: > >>> There is actually on more method (attached) that we need to add to >>> either Kom or Seaside to make Pharo and Squeak compatible on the API level. >> Sorry but no, see previous posts. Have a look at Seaside2.8a1-pmm.583 >> for what I would find acceptable. > > OK, can you explain how I should make Seaside work on both Pharo and > Squeak? I spent two days figuring out a minimal set of changes that > would not require doing some ugly hack testing for which underlying > platform you are dealing with and you say that is not acceptable? You > *want* ugly hacks? I don't understand... - Monkey patching either Seaside or Kom is not acceptable. We have this issue partially because Kom is monkey patching Squeak. - Forking Seaside for Pharo is not acceptable. - Relying on a forked Kom is not acceptable, we need to have a consistent interface for Kom in both Squeak an Pharo. That kinda limits our options. Second the fix is not that ugly. It just sends #asString to something it expects to be a String. This is not a that uncommon idiom. And we already have to do something way uglier for ensuring author initials. That's what happens if you break the API. You brake a lot of code and cause a lot of pain for a lot of people. Cheers Philippe

Feb. 27, 2009