February 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Question about Universes

by Keith Hodges

Ramon Leon wrote: > > I don't think it is fair to use code critics as an argument. > > I think it's perfectly fair, be it code critic or lint, if it finds > bad code then it finds bad code. It's not like you don't know about > code critics and Lint is already in Squeak, No it is not. I have seen one passing comment about something called SwaLint, on the mailing list that is about all. > so it's your choice if you choose not to avail yourself of tools that > point out badly written code. He writes about the tools he's working > on at his blog http://www.lukas-renggli.ch/blog which is easily > subscribed to. Thanks, I didnt know > There's no reason anyone can say they're unaware of what he's doing > unless they're choosing to be unaware. Well clearly that is not true. Keith

Feb. 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Question about Universes

by Lukas Renggli

> It doesn't depend upon that compiler hack. That hack provides the > ability to put textual data in as an appendix to a method. It is an > entirely independent facility that could be perhaps better included as a > trait for those that want it. The version I found in the latest Pharo-Dev images has the compiler hack loaded and depends on it (or the package definitions). > I don't think it is fair to use code critics as an argument. You can't deny that references to variables and classes that do not exist in the system are not a serious bug. > To me it > appears that you have developed all of these tools for your own use. Code Critics is part of the refactoring browser by Don Roberts and John Brant. The refactoring browser is one of the most amazing pieces of Smalltalk code I have ever seen. I am maintaining the code-base in Pharo (and previously in Squeak), because it makes me much more productive in my daily work. Code critics provides a huge set of high quality tests for free that can quickly point out flaws in code. It is not always correct, but it is usually very good to find the problematic parts of a system. >> not implemented anywhere. Of course there is not a single test. > What are you talking about: Sake-Tests. I am sorry. I was not aware of that package. I should have checked online. Cheers, Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Feb. 19, 2009

[Pharo-project] Fwd: [Seaside] Re: VNC Problem on Gentoo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> > > > would be nice to have that fied inheadless mode. > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Andreas Raab <andreas.raab(a)gmx.de> >> Date: February 19, 2009 5:15:40 PM CEST >> To: Seaside - general discussion >> <seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org>, cdshaffer(a)acm.org >> Subject: [Seaside] Re: VNC Problem on Gentoo >> Reply-To: Seaside - general discussion <seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >> > >> >> C. David Shaffer wrote: >>> Yes, copy through VNC kills the squeak VM (not just the VNC >>> session). This has been the case for as long as I can >>> remember...just never had >>> the time to try to correct it. >> >> The problem is that when you run headless the clipboard primitives >> die. The easiest way to fix this is to just comment out the >> primitive 141 in both primitiveClipboardText/primitiveClipboardText: >> >> Cheers, >> - Andreas >> _______________________________________________ >> seaside mailing list >> seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside >> > > > >

Feb. 19, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Question about Universes

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi keith I will let lukas answers your questions. And I like this discussion because at the end we should all get a better understanding. I like the idea of an integration build server we all need that. Lukas can from time to time build too complex software :) (I know he will smile) but he showed with Seaside that he has a sense of code responsibility. So continue to discuss not argue :) Stef On Feb 19, 2009, at 6:11 PM, Keith Hodges wrote: > Lukas Renggli wrote: >>> You are wrong about Sake I think. >>> >> >> I know Sake. I've written a generator for builder.seaside.st. The >> result (or a modified version of it) is included with the Sake >> distribution as Seaside29Builder. >> >> >>> Sake can declare a universe of >>> known-to-work-together packages. Just take a class, declare the sake >>> tasks you know work together in the image you target and things will >>> be as in universe. >>> >> >> Sure, you can use Sake to build something very similar to a Universe. >> However tasks are not declarative, but instead use a script to >> perform >> some actions. In most cases they call Installer to find and load an >> appropriate version (what is already scary in itself). >> > Why? > > They are "mostly" declarative, following feedback from Andreas. If > the > default script is used it simply analyses the url data given, which is > the case for 99% of packages. >> I understand that Package Universe is too restrictive for some cases, >> however I wouldn't dare to replace it with Sake. Sake depends on a >> stack of hacks, it even uses its own compiler to allow uppercase >> method names. > No it doesnt. > > It doesn't depend upon that compiler hack. That hack provides the > ability to put textual data in as an appendix to a method. It is an > entirely independent facility that could be perhaps better included > as a > trait for those that want it. > > I use it when I want to use methods to be a mini database, in the > Mantis > package, and for Bob to be able to manages build scripts in the image > without having to enclose in quotes and escape quotes. >> In the small codebase Code Critics finds 14 serious bugs >> like non existing inst-variable references and message sents that are >> > I don't think it is fair to use code critics as an argument. To me it > appears that you have developed all of these tools for your own use. I > have never even seen you announce their existence to squeak-dev. > Where > is the documentation? >> not implemented anywhere. Of course there is not a single test. > What are you talking about: Sake-Tests. >> The >> way Sake calculates dependencies is totally strange, I am not sure if >> it is even correct. >> > Again, what do you mean? There are two algorithms in use. The first is > lifted directly from rake. The second is stolen directly from > universes. > > Keith > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Feb. 19, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Question about Universes

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> It doesn't depend upon that compiler hack. That hack provides the > ability to put textual data in as an appendix to a method. It is an > entirely independent facility that could be perhaps better included > as a > trait for those that want it. I do not get that? I use it when I want to use methods to be a mini database, in the Mantis > > package, and for Bob to be able to manages build scripts in the image > without having to enclose in quotes and escape quotes. > >> In the small codebase Code Critics finds 14 serious bugs >> like non existing inst-variable references and message sents that are >> > I don't think it is fair to use code critics as an argument. To me it > appears that you have developed all of these tools for your own use. I > have never even seen you announce their existence to squeak-dev. > Where > is the documentation? >> not implemented anywhere. Of course there is not a single test. > What are you talking about: Sake-Tests. >> The >> way Sake calculates dependencies is totally strange, I am not sure if >> it is even correct. >> > Again, what do you mean? There are two algorithms in use. The first is > lifted directly from rake. The second is stolen directly from > universes. > > Keith > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Feb. 19, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Question about Universes

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

and the spelling rules is definitively colo :) On Feb 19, 2009, at 8:22 PM, Ramon Leon wrote: > > I don't think it is fair to use code critics as an argument. > > I think it's perfectly fair, be it code critic or lint, if it finds > bad code then it finds bad code. It's not like you don't know about > code critics and Lint is already in Squeak, so it's your choice if > you choose not to avail yourself of tools that point out badly > written code. He writes about the tools he's working on at his blog http://www.lukas-renggli.ch/blog > which is easily subscribed to. There's no reason anyone can say > they're unaware of what he's doing unless they're choosing to be > unaware. > > Ramon Leon > http://onsmalltalk.com > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 19, 2009

[Pharo-project] [update] #10238

by Marcus Denker

#10238 --------------------------------------- Issue 425: TransferMorph eats events (Mantis #7251) Issue 585: Add floatAt:bigEndian: in order to read IEEE 32 bits single precision float in byte arrays Issue 515: lowSpaceWatcher causes DNU interruptName:preemptedProcess: Kernel-AlexandreBergel.260: the menu in pluggabletext editor has been extended with tallyIt ScriptLoader-david_roethlisberger.761: fixed #loadOBAlpha and #loadSuperOB in ScriptLoader System-david_roethlisberger.221 Tools-david_roethlisberger.141: extended SystemNavigation and ToolSet to browse implementors and senders in dedicated browsers instead of showing them in a generic message list browser Traits-damiencassou.261: Implements TraitBehavior>>poolDictionaryNames for polymorphic use with classes -- Marcus Denker -- denker(a)acm.org http://www.marcusdenker.de

Feb. 19, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Question about Universes

by Ramon Leon

> I don't think it is fair to use code critics as an argument. I think it's perfectly fair, be it code critic or lint, if it finds bad code then it finds bad code. It's not like you don't know about code critics and Lint is already in Squeak, so it's your choice if you choose not to avail yourself of tools that point out badly written code. He writes about the tools he's working on at his blog http://www.lukas-renggli.ch/blog which is easily subscribed to. There's no reason anyone can say they're unaware of what he's doing unless they're choosing to be unaware. Ramon Leon http://onsmalltalk.com

Feb. 19, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Incompatibility between Pharo and Seasidehosting

by John M McIntosh

look in the archive and on the vm-dev list I think people agree this is a gcc 4.3 issue. On 19-Feb-09, at 4:15 AM, Bruce O'Neel wrote: > Hi, > > Is it possible this error? > > sqUnixMemory.c:172: uxGrowMemoryBy: Assertion `newDelta >= 0` failed. > Aborted > > I get this following the procedure below on a Debian Lenny PPC > system with Squeak 3.10-4. > Gcc is 4.3.2. I do not get this on a Ubuntu hardy ppc system with > the same version of squeak. > Gcc is slightly older at 4.2.3. > > I've worked around this, for the moment, by adding -memory 200m to > the squeak > command line. > > I spent some weekend debugging this, but, I didn't find where the > problem it is comes > from. > > cheers > > bruce -- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================

Feb. 19, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Question about Universes

by Keith Hodges

Lukas Renggli wrote: >> You are wrong about Sake I think. >> > > I know Sake. I've written a generator for builder.seaside.st. The > result (or a modified version of it) is included with the Sake > distribution as Seaside29Builder. > > >> Sake can declare a universe of >> known-to-work-together packages. Just take a class, declare the sake >> tasks you know work together in the image you target and things will >> be as in universe. >> > > Sure, you can use Sake to build something very similar to a Universe. > However tasks are not declarative, but instead use a script to perform > some actions. In most cases they call Installer to find and load an > appropriate version (what is already scary in itself). > Why? They are "mostly" declarative, following feedback from Andreas. If the default script is used it simply analyses the url data given, which is the case for 99% of packages. > I understand that Package Universe is too restrictive for some cases, > however I wouldn't dare to replace it with Sake. Sake depends on a > stack of hacks, it even uses its own compiler to allow uppercase > method names. No it doesnt. It doesn't depend upon that compiler hack. That hack provides the ability to put textual data in as an appendix to a method. It is an entirely independent facility that could be perhaps better included as a trait for those that want it. I use it when I want to use methods to be a mini database, in the Mantis package, and for Bob to be able to manages build scripts in the image without having to enclose in quotes and escape quotes. > In the small codebase Code Critics finds 14 serious bugs > like non existing inst-variable references and message sents that are > I don't think it is fair to use code critics as an argument. To me it appears that you have developed all of these tools for your own use. I have never even seen you announce their existence to squeak-dev. Where is the documentation? > not implemented anywhere. Of course there is not a single test. What are you talking about: Sake-Tests. > The > way Sake calculates dependencies is totally strange, I am not sure if > it is even correct. > Again, what do you mean? There are two algorithms in use. The first is lifted directly from rake. The second is stolen directly from universes. Keith

Feb. 19, 2009