February 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] smalltalk as an interactive shell language (was Pharo scripting -- reborn as "Coral")

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

:) soa is relative to the context :) Stef PS: I like the energy we are creating here. >> David Lewis mentioned ExternalCommandShell as an example. Is that >> the >> state-of-the-art? > > Well, I wrote it so you may be sure that it is not state-of-the-art ;) > > Dave

Feb. 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] smalltalk as an interactive shell language (was Pharo scripting -- reborn as "Coral")

by David T. Lewis

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 12:03:43PM +0100, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote: > > David Lewis mentioned ExternalCommandShell as an example. Is that the > state-of-the-art? Well, I wrote it so you may be sure that it is not state-of-the-art ;) Dave

Feb. 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Announcements for Pharo?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Feb 26, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Lautaro FernÃ¡ndez wrote: > This may be a stupid question, but here it goes: > Does exist the Announcement implementation of Lukas in the actual > image of Pharo? We will include it. Stef > > > In some time we will publish a new framework for Comet (called > Meteoroid) which goes on top of Seaside and Swazoo and we are > thinking to port it into Squeak/Pharo, but an implementation of > announcements is required. It would be nice to see how much are > similar the Lukas's announcements with Cincom's announcements. > > Bye, > Lautaro FernÃ¡ndez > > > 2009/2/25 Tudor Girba <girba(a)iam.unibe.ch> > That would be cool, actually. I have used the implementation of Lukas > and it works just fine. > > Lukas pointed out that the VW Announcements code is under Cincom > copyright. The nice thing about his implementation is that he did not > look at the code. He only implemented the idea as he read it from the > blog :). > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On 26 Feb 2009, at 01:28, Michael Rueger wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > should we add Announcements as part of the core image? > > And if so, which of the existing implementations? > > > > Michael > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Presenting is storytelling." > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > -- > Luke LAut SkyFernadezWalker > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Announcements for Pharo?

by Lautaro FernÃ¡ndez

This may be a stupid question, but here it goes: Does exist the Announcement implementation of Lukas in the actual image of Pharo? In some time we will publish a new framework for Comet (called Meteoroid) which goes on top of Seaside and Swazoo and we are thinking to port it into Squeak/Pharo, but an implementation of announcements is required. It would be nice to see how much are similar the Lukas's announcements with Cincom's announcements. Bye, Lautaro FernÃ¡ndez 2009/2/25 Tudor Girba <girba(a)iam.unibe.ch> > That would be cool, actually. I have used the implementation of Lukas > and it works just fine. > > Lukas pointed out that the VW Announcements code is under Cincom > copyright. The nice thing about his implementation is that he did not > look at the code. He only implemented the idea as he read it from the > blog :). > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On 26 Feb 2009, at 01:28, Michael Rueger wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > should we add Announcements as part of the core image? > > And if so, which of the existing implementations? > > > > Michael > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Presenting is storytelling." > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Luke LAut SkyFernadezWalker

Feb. 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] On the toaster again

by Hilaire Fernandes

I added myself the missing method as an extension in my package. This will do it for now. Hilaire 2009/2/26 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > marcus > > to help hilaire what woul dbe the fall back > and deprecated version so that magma works? > > Stef > On Feb 26, 2009, at 10:54 AM, Marcus Denker wrote: > >> >> On 26.02.2009, at 10:37, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: >> >>> It looks like Association>>isSpecialWriteBinding is gone in Pharo. >>> Can >>> someone confirm it? >>> >>> It hurt because it is used by Magma.. >>> >> >> Yes. cleanup of un-used code. >> >> The story was that: In the SystemDictionary ("Smalltalk") there are >> the >> classes. Technically, Dictionaries are collections of Associations. >> >> Now, "Smalltalk" has globals *and* classes. Which means, we can do >> >> Object := nil. >> >> And everthing is dead. >> >> This is especially a problem in an ende-user scripting systems (e.g. >> something >> more powerful than etoys, but targeted at non-programmers). >> >> Sometime in the last century, someone started to work on making Squeak >> more stable (or >> secure for some meaning of secure). >> >> Now, one can fix the assignment problem in two places: >> >> A) name analysis of the compiler. The place where all the other >> warning are generated. >> B) replacing the association in the Smalltalk dictionary by one that >> can not be changed. >> Â Â (here "value:" raises an exception). >> >> The isSpecialWriteBinding was the test to check if the binging was >> read=only or read/write. >> Some classes where referenced using a read-only binging (those that >> where very old), but >> all new classes where referenced using a normal association. >> >> There was no code in the image that would create >> ReadOnlyVariableBindings. It was never used >> in this century. And: is that really at the right level, that change? >> For controlling assignments, >> the compiler's checking phase is much better. >> >> If one wants to make the structure of the sytem (the "structural >> model" in the sense of structural >> reflection) read-only, this does not help at all. Remember, this hack >> just touches *one* place in the >> object graph that starts with "Smalltalk". It does not, for example, >> secure the method-dictonary. Nor >> changes to the inhertance hierarchy. >> >> This is actually a very cool topic of research... and we are >> incidentally actually working just now >> on a paper that shows one cool direction of providing "read only" >> views on shared object graphs like >> the one that represents the structure of the system. >> >> Â Â Â Marcus >> >> >> -- >> Marcus Denker Â -- Â denker(a)acm.org >> http://www.marcusdenker.de >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire

Feb. 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo scripting -- reborn as "Coral"

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

sounds fun. For the syntax, if we could keep the one of Smalltalk this would be great because find . *.tex -print name -exec {} looks like something you want to avoid. else bash is good enough for me right now I want to code in pharo the lib to be able to write little scripts to script them. :) On Feb 25, 2009, at 10:48 PM, Nicolas Cellier wrote: > Marcus Denker <denker@...> writes: > >> >> >> On 25.02.2009, at 22:27, Matthew Fulmer wrote: >> >>>> >>>> Each command will then be a message sent to the object referenced >>>> by >>>> the variable 'shell'. >>>> >>>> entering 'ls' will then invoke 'shell.ls'... >> >> I would say that a command like "ls" is not a method. It's an object >> (instance of a sublass of "Script" or "Command"). >> >> You want, for example, inherit things like command line parsing, >> standard options >> (e.g. --help) and things liket that. A command like ls is far too >> complex to be >> just one method. >> >> Marcus >> >> -- >> Marcus Denker -- denker@... >> http://www.marcusdenker.de >> > > I would say ls is a message, and Shell ls answer with a LSCommand > which is > kindOf: Command. > A Command use lazy evaluation: it does not evaluate until a end of > line or pipe > message triggers evaluation (i mean send the message #value). > > Before being evaluated, Command behaviour can be modified by sending > all sort of > message, like -l --help etc... > Of course, apart options which are messages sent to the command > (eventually with > arguments), a list of arguments can be passed to the Command itself > (Command > valueWithArguments: aList). > > Just have to invent the syntax now... > > Nicolas > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Feb. 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo scripting -- reborn as "Coral"

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

sound interesting thanks for the pointer On Feb 25, 2009, at 10:09 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote: > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Alexandre Bergel > <alexandre(a)bergel.eu> wrote: > > please > > try it out and let me know what you would expect from a real > Smalltalk > > scripting environment. > > > Something that would really push me in using Coral is an intelligent > prompt. A list of the things the prompt should do: > - crawling into the history of typed commands using up and > down key > arrow > - tab completion (classes and method name) > - colored output > - Ctl-D to quit > - Keybinds: > * Ctlr-A beginning of the line > * Ctrl-E end of the line > * Alt- -> / Alt- <- to jump words > > > I modified REPLServer to do all of the above except for CTRL-d, > colour and Alt-word skipping. I originally made it so that I could > do stuff that breaks Morphic then still be able to use and recover > the image. > > REPLServer uses telnet but can be modified to use other input/output > mechanisms such as stdin/stdout or Display/EventSensor. > > REPLServer is loadable in Squeak 3.9, 3.10 using the Packages > Universe, or http://www.squeaksource.com/SecureSqueak (I should > really put it in its own project at some stage). Its documentation > is available as "online help" from the CLI. > > Gulik. > > -- > http://gulik.pbwiki.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo scripting -- reborn as "Coral"

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

because you change the way the file is looked up this way we can now use vm -headless -file ljkljljkl without been forced to provide the full path but may I'm wrong since I\m doing too much stuff On Feb 25, 2009, at 5:19 PM, John M McIntosh wrote: > > On 25-Feb-09, at 4:55 AM, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote: > >> This will load everything that is required and pop up a few Workspace >> windows with further instructions. (You will need John McIntosh's >> latest VM to get this to work -- all is described in the image.) > > Well I'm curious why won't older VM's work? > > -- > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http:// > www.smalltalkconsulting.com > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Feb. 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] On the toaster again

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

marcus to help hilaire what woul dbe the fall back and deprecated version so that magma works? Stef On Feb 26, 2009, at 10:54 AM, Marcus Denker wrote: > > On 26.02.2009, at 10:37, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: > >> It looks like Association>>isSpecialWriteBinding is gone in Pharo. >> Can >> someone confirm it? >> >> It hurt because it is used by Magma.. >> > > Yes. cleanup of un-used code. > > The story was that: In the SystemDictionary ("Smalltalk") there are > the > classes. Technically, Dictionaries are collections of Associations. > > Now, "Smalltalk" has globals *and* classes. Which means, we can do > > Object := nil. > > And everthing is dead. > > This is especially a problem in an ende-user scripting systems (e.g. > something > more powerful than etoys, but targeted at non-programmers). > > Sometime in the last century, someone started to work on making Squeak > more stable (or > secure for some meaning of secure). > > Now, one can fix the assignment problem in two places: > > A) name analysis of the compiler. The place where all the other > warning are generated. > B) replacing the association in the Smalltalk dictionary by one that > can not be changed. > (here "value:" raises an exception). > > The isSpecialWriteBinding was the test to check if the binging was > read=only or read/write. > Some classes where referenced using a read-only binging (those that > where very old), but > all new classes where referenced using a normal association. > > There was no code in the image that would create > ReadOnlyVariableBindings. It was never used > in this century. And: is that really at the right level, that change? > For controlling assignments, > the compiler's checking phase is much better. > > If one wants to make the structure of the sytem (the "structural > model" in the sense of structural > reflection) read-only, this does not help at all. Remember, this hack > just touches *one* place in the > object graph that starts with "Smalltalk". It does not, for example, > secure the method-dictonary. Nor > changes to the inhertance hierarchy. > > This is actually a very cool topic of research... and we are > incidentally actually working just now > on a paper that shows one cool direction of providing "read only" > views on shared object graphs like > the one that represents the structure of the system. > > Marcus > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- denker(a)acm.org > http://www.marcusdenker.de > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Feb. 26, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Have you guys got the refactoring of saveAs:

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I have to check On Feb 26, 2009, at 7:11 AM, Keith Hodges wrote: > Installer mantis fixBug: '5851 Refactor SmalltalkImage saveAs'. > > I need to know for InstallerScripts-#LevelPlayingFieldPreamblePharo > > Keith > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Feb. 26, 2009