December 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Point name Point class name are not both symbol

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>> The need to have class names comes from using the global namespace: > > (Smalltalk at: ConsistentClass name) == ConsistentClass > > metaclasses is not part of global namespace and therefore don't > required to have some constraints in > while answering #name message. > > Actually, it could answer 'ClassName metaclass' , or just 'a Metaclass' > any form is acceptable. No what you are saying is dogmatic. So far the metamodel of smalltalk is simple just class, packages does not even exist but as soons as you want to have a way to manipulate classes, you can manipulate metaclass and I do not know you but me I like when I want a class extension on a metaclass that it does not end up on the instance side. > I'd rather punish those, who in own code expecting that metaclasses > should answer something which can be parsed for detecting a class > name! > > >>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 25, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Point name Point class name are not both symbol

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>> >> I do not think so and be consistent would be good > > I don't think that the name of a metaclass is used at all, and I can't > think of a situation where the metaclass name would be useful (other > than in the inspector). RB, OB and MC all do "aBehavior > theNonMetaclass name". Also the metaclass name is quite inefficient > for lookups, because it is a derived value. I have a simple scenario aPackage addClassNamed: vs aPackage addClassNamed: meta: aBoolean of course may be I trying to provide a too large interface and I should only focus on aPackage addClass: because there I always get a class and I can ask its name. but I think that people may want to reorganize package may be without having the class loaded. So even if we cannot/should not too much with metaclass, having a symbol instead of a string would be good.

Dec. 25, 2009

[Pharo-project] Issue 1690: New method trailer format for Pharo

by Igor Stasenko

I reviewed the trailers changesets and adopted them for Pharo.. Please, tell me how it goes. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Dec. 25, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Point name Point class name are not both symbol

by Igor Stasenko

2009/12/25 Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com>: > 2009/12/25 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> >> On Dec 25, 2009, at 3:39 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >>> 2009/12/25 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> I was wondering if it would make sense to have >>>> Â Â Â Â Point name >>>> Â Â Â Â Point class name >>>> Â Â Â Â both returning a symbol and not in one case a symbol and the other a string. >>>> >>> >>> To my understanding, there's only classes which obliged to be >>> identified by name. >>> Metaclasses don't need to have one, and actually free to answer >>> anything they want. >> >> I do not think so and be consistent would be good > > The need to have class names comes from using the global namespace: > > (Smalltalk at: ConsistentClass name) == ConsistentClass > > metaclasses is not part of global namespace and therefore don't > required to have some constraints in > while answering #name message. > > Actually, it could answer 'ClassName metaclass' , or just 'a Metaclass' > any form is acceptable. > I'd rather punish those, who in own code expecting that metaclasses > should answer something which can be parsed for detecting a class > name! > Because the right form of accessing the name of class is: classOrMetaClass theClassSide name and right form of testing if behavior is metaclass is object isBehavior and: [ object isMeta ] but not: object name endsWith:'class' :) > >>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Dec. 25, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Point name Point class name are not both symbol

by Igor Stasenko

2009/12/25 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > > On Dec 25, 2009, at 3:39 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> 2009/12/25 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>> Hi >>> >>> I was wondering if it would make sense to have >>> Â Â Â Â Point name >>> Â Â Â Â Point class name >>> Â Â Â Â both returning a symbol and not in one case a symbol and the other a string. >>> >> >> To my understanding, there's only classes which obliged to be >> identified by name. >> Metaclasses don't need to have one, and actually free to answer >> anything they want. > > I do not think so and be consistent would be good The need to have class names comes from using the global namespace: (Smalltalk at: ConsistentClass name) == ConsistentClass metaclasses is not part of global namespace and therefore don't required to have some constraints in while answering #name message. Actually, it could answer 'ClassName metaclass' , or just 'a Metaclass' any form is acceptable. I'd rather punish those, who in own code expecting that metaclasses should answer something which can be parsed for detecting a class name! >> >>> Stef >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Dec. 25, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Point name Point class name are not both symbol

by Lukas Renggli

I On Friday, December 25, 2009, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Dec 25, 2009, at 3:39 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> 2009/12/25 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>> Hi >>> >>> I was wondering if it would make sense to have >>> Â Â Â Â Point name >>> Â Â Â Â Point class name >>> Â Â Â Â both returning a symbol and not in one case a symbol and the other a string. >>> >> >> To my understanding, there's only classes which obliged to be >> identified by name. >> Metaclasses don't need to have one, and actually free to answer >> anything they want. > > I do not think so and be consistent would be good I don't think that the name of a metaclass is used at all, and I can't think of a situation where the metaclass name would be useful (other than in the inspector). RB, OB and MC all do "aBehavior theNonMetaclass name". Also the metaclass name is quite inefficient for lookups, because it is a derived value. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Dec. 25, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Point name Point class name are not both symbol

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Dec 25, 2009, at 3:39 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > 2009/12/25 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> Hi >> >> I was wondering if it would make sense to have >> Point name >> Point class name >> both returning a symbol and not in one case a symbol and the other a string. >> > > To my understanding, there's only classes which obliged to be > identified by name. > Metaclasses don't need to have one, and actually free to answer > anything they want. I do not think so and be consistent would be good > >> Stef >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 25, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] SUnit forked, gofer it

by Lukas Renggli

> Can I commit it there? what can be the problem ? I copied it there. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Dec. 25, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Point name Point class name are not both symbol

by Igor Stasenko

2009/12/25 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > Hi > > I was wondering if it would make sense to have > Â Â Â Â Point name > Â Â Â Â Point class name > Â Â Â Â both returning a symbol and not in one case a symbol and the other a string. > To my understanding, there's only classes which obliged to be identified by name. Metaclasses don't need to have one, and actually free to answer anything they want. > Stef > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Dec. 25, 2009

[Pharo-project] Point name Point class name are not both symbol

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi I was wondering if it would make sense to have Point name Point class name both returning a symbol and not in one case a symbol and the other a string. Stef

Dec. 25, 2009