December 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Solving the documentation problem. Capturing tacit knowledge. Knowledge reuse.

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

Em 31/12/2009 15:09, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > escreveu: > Stan > My point is not to discourage you. :) Documentation is a state of > mind and a large valuable job. Now we can do the same as you said > (a guy ask and the others try to answer and we write comments that > are pushed into the system). > A first step is > - make a list of the classes that are missing comments: +--------+-------+-------+ | Image | update|missing| | | |comment| +--------+-------+-------+ |1.0-dev | 10502 | 1831 | +--------+-------+-------+ |1.1-core| 11098 | 703 | +--------+-------+-------+ | 1.1-dev| 11098 | 1795 | +--------+-------+-------+ > - pick one aweek and via the mailing-list make it better and after > - we integrate it. > First it would be fun and we would get one class commented at the > end of the week. HTH -- Cesar Rabak

Dec. 31, 2009

[Pharo-project] Fwd: New Year Edition :)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi I uploaded a core-image 11128 https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/shownotes.php?release_id=4734 Stef

Dec. 31, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Solving the documentation problem. Capturing tacit knowledge. Knowledge reuse.

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Stan My point is not to discourage you. :) Documentation is a state of mind and a large valuable job. Now we can do the same as you said (a guy ask and the others try to answer and we write comments that are pushed into the system). A first step is - make a list of the classes that are missing comments: - pick one a week and via the mailing-list make it better and after we integrate it. First it would be fun and we would get one class commented at the end of the week. Stef >> >> Stan >> >> Outsourcing documentation does not work. >> Having tests is one way but comments are crucial. >> You see we open issue to fix and add a single comment. >> >> The way to go is >> - having browsers showing doc all the times >> (like the old browser was showing the class def and the class comment) >> - defining better tools to browse documentation. >> I started (but did not finish) to use the new tree developed by alain to >> provide a package >> |> class >> class comment >> V method >> methodcomment >> method >> methodcomment >> |> class >> class comment >> |> methods >> |> class >> class comment >> |> methods >> >> We need a better version of >> ClassTree new openOn: Collection >> Stef >> >> > > > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >> Outsourcing documentation does not work. >> > > True, in much the same way as: > > >> it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all >> those other forms that have been tried from time to time ...Winston >> Churchill >> > > In my image there are 905981methods without comments. Assuming 99% are > trivial or self documenting, that would mean 9000 comments require > documentation. > > Given that the developers/maintainers have lived this long without > documenting these, what level of confidence would you have that people will > go back and do so once you offer them the perfect documentation tool? Given > a choice of building the next greatest thing, or sitting down to a nice > session of documenting, ... > > On the other hand, you have users ( I think Sophie has been a good example) > who work their way through things, ask the questions, get it straight in > their own minds, then are happy to share what they have learnt. If you have > spent 2 hours or 2 days puzzling something out, then spending another 5 > minutes to capture that information for the sake of others is an obvious > step. Also, the person using a piece of functionality knows what they find > unclear; someone who has been using the software for 4 years would have > remarkable insight to be able to put themselves into the place of the new > user seeing the code for the first time. > > For similar reasons, tests are frequently not good documentation. The test > writer wants the best way to test 50 similar cases with the least code, so > writes some smart code around the tests to do all the setup etc in generic > ways. The person seeking documentation wants a simple piece of code to see a > function operate, without having to strip away levels of indirection, > boilerplate, attractive screen formatting,.... > > What would be the worst case if all users had a quick way to update > documentation? The guardians of a package would review their watchlist once > a week, and revert or edit any incorrect documentation. Just the fact of > someone trying and failing to explain a method could spur the author to > provide a better explanation. > > A useful social contract would grow up, where the developer agrees to answer > questions, and the questioner agrees to make the first cut at documenting > the answer. There could be a change in the culture of doing without > documentation, and (I believe) a rapid improvement in the completeness of > documentation. And imagine if the quality and completeness of the > documentation became a positive selling point for Pharo. > > As Mariano said about the release images, what a shame to build the perfect > system but only a dozen people be able to use it. > > Thanks to all the contributors for your great work. Help us to help you to > finish it to showroom standard. > > ...Stan > > > > > > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Solving-the-documentation-problem-Capturing-tacit-know… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 31, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Beginner question :) search and replace in String

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

This brings to the forum an interesting debate! Clearly Levente's solution is the String redirection for Lukas' solution. Do this method eases programming for newcomers? Or it creates burden as presented in Stan's posting? AK is IIUC very knowledgeable of tools used in Squeak/Pharo and even though, had difficulty to find this particular method!! my 0.019999... -- Cesar Rabak Em 31/12/2009 14:45, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> escreveu: On Thu, 31 Dec 2009, Lukas Renggli wrote: >> Anyway, the +10 bounty for a regex solution is still open! > > 'bar' asRegex copy: 'foobarqux' replacingMatchesWith: 'XYZ' Or: 'foobarqux' copyWithRegex: 'bar' matchesReplacedWith: 'XYZ' Levente > > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 31, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Developer guide ... ?

by Levente Uzonyi

On Thu, 31 Dec 2009, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi levente > > In VW there is the ObjectMemory class and its policy for doing that. Now what were your setup in Squeak. > Passing argument to the vm as parameter or something more elaborated? Just changing vm parameters via SmalltalkImage >> #vmParameterAt:put:. Levente > > On Dec 30, 2009, at 11:45 PM, Levente Uzonyi wrote: > >> Tuning the garbage collector (which one should do when deploying an image) may help here. Btw I didn't experience such problems with seaside (2.8 & 3.0). > > Stef > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Dec. 31, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Can't debug in 1.1

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I took 11106 and press updates.... > Where did you get your image from? If you had an older image and applied > updates the corruption may not be there. > > For me, it reproduces 100% in a downloaded Excellent! > pharo1.1-11112-alphadev09.12.2 image, and it also reproduced it in that > image with all updates applied, and I may have also had this problem in > the latest core download. in 11117-core I could not reproduce it. But in 11112-alphadev it nicely crash! Stef

Dec. 31, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Can't debug in 1.1

by Henrik Sperre Johansen

The MapCache is not registered for finalization, IIRC. The new WeakKeyDictionary does not work reliably without being registered. See also http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1628. I remember wanting to retract some parts of comment #2 after further investigation, but I no longer remember which :) Should give some pointers though. Cheers, Henry On 31.12.2009 17:41, Martin McClure wrote: > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Probably the changes of Martin von Lowis. >> I imagine that when marcus is bad from holidays he can tell us more. >> >> Now I try to reproduce it in 11128. >> >> I put a self halt in a method and execute the method. >> And I got no problem. >> After I tried to select 'self halt' + doit in the debugger itself and it worked too. >> >> Did you have a way reproduce it systematically ? >> > Where did you get your image from? If you had an older image and applied > updates the corruption may not be there. > > For me, it reproduces 100% in a downloaded > pharo1.1-11112-alphadev09.12.2 image, and it also reproduced it in that > image with all updates applied, and I may have also had this problem in > the latest core download. > > Regards, > > -Martin > > > >> On Dec 31, 2009, at 4:17 AM, Martin McClure wrote: >> >> >>> This one's pretty nasty. >>> >>> Symptom: >>> >>> The debugger in recent and current 1.1 images is completely broken. >>> >>> To reproduce (save your image first!): >>> >>> "self halt" doit. It goes into an infinite loop, and if there's a way to >>> get out of that without killing the VM I'd like to know about it. Alt-. >>> works, but just tries to open another debugger, which goes into another >>> infinite loop, etc. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cause: >>> >>> DebuggerMethodMap>MapCache is a WeakIdentityKeyDictionary, but it is >>> corrupt. It has an array of 22 nils, expired is 0, so it contains >>> nothing, but tally=16. >>> >>> This causes MapCache to lie about its size. >>> >>> This drives DebuggerMethodMap class>>cacheDebugMap:forMethod: into an >>> infinite loop, the whileTrue: condition is always true, it keeps trying >>> to remove non-existent elements to get the size to be less than 16 but >>> the size is always 16. >>> >>> I don't see any obvious code paths to get into this state. I suspect it >>> may have been left in this state when weak collections were updated with >>> the new code not too long ago. >>> >>> >>> Cure: >>> >>> In an inspector, set tally=0. Debuggers then work again. >>> >>> Not sure how to package this as a slice, so I'll leave the update to >>> someone else, and get back to hashing, which was hard when every >>> walkback froze my system :-) >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> -Martin >>> > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > >

Dec. 31, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo testers.... WE NEED YOU!!!

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

I'm in CMU Mach Operating System ;) nah, Windows XP (but I swear I've installed the Mach when I was 20, a true nightmare), 32-bit, PharoCore. Cheers, HernÃ n 2009/12/31 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > Ok, you already know the idea. Damien, or the person that build the next > Pharo dev and web images will send those Pharo beta testers a private email > with the link to download the image. No ANN and now update is done yet to > the website. Then the betatesters use that image as much as possible for a > couple of days. Report bugs if necessary and if it is ok, the image is > released. > > Regarding the list of beta testers would be perfect if we cover the > combination of OS (Linux, Mac, Windows) and the browser (OB, O2). But we > cannot pretend too much. Take into account that not all the people can work > with a new image very easily because they have to migrate data > ...etc..Others can just download the project from MC and start to work :) > > So...here is the list, if you offer yourself, it would be cool to know: OS, > VM version, Dev or Web,Â browser you usually work, 32 o 64 bits, > I will then collect this and I will put it in the wiki. > > - Mariano Martinez Peck.Â Mac OS, Squeak 4.2.2beta1U.app,Â Dev, OB, 32 bits > - Stan Shepherd > > > WHO ELSE IS IN THE LIST ?? > > cheers and happy new year!! > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Dec. 31, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Solving the documentation problem. Capturing tacit knowledge. Knowledge reuse.

by Stan Shepherd

StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > Stan > > Outsourcing documentation does not work. > Having tests is one way but comments are crucial. > You see we open issue to fix and add a single comment. > > The way to go is > - having browsers showing doc all the times > (like the old browser was showing the class def and the class comment) > - defining better tools to browse documentation. > I started (but did not finish) to use the new tree developed by alain to > provide a package > |> class > class comment > V method > methodcomment > method > methodcomment > |> class > class comment > |> methods > |> class > class comment > |> methods > > We need a better version of > ClassTree new openOn: Collection > Stef > > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > Outsourcing documentation does not work. > True, in much the same way as: > it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all > those other forms that have been tried from time to time ...Winston > Churchill > In my image there are 905981methods without comments. Assuming 99% are trivial or self documenting, that would mean 9000 comments require documentation. Given that the developers/maintainers have lived this long without documenting these, what level of confidence would you have that people will go back and do so once you offer them the perfect documentation tool? Given a choice of building the next greatest thing, or sitting down to a nice session of documenting, ... On the other hand, you have users ( I think Sophie has been a good example) who work their way through things, ask the questions, get it straight in their own minds, then are happy to share what they have learnt. If you have spent 2 hours or 2 days puzzling something out, then spending another 5 minutes to capture that information for the sake of others is an obvious step. Also, the person using a piece of functionality knows what they find unclear; someone who has been using the software for 4 years would have remarkable insight to be able to put themselves into the place of the new user seeing the code for the first time. For similar reasons, tests are frequently not good documentation. The test writer wants the best way to test 50 similar cases with the least code, so writes some smart code around the tests to do all the setup etc in generic ways. The person seeking documentation wants a simple piece of code to see a function operate, without having to strip away levels of indirection, boilerplate, attractive screen formatting,.... What would be the worst case if all users had a quick way to update documentation? The guardians of a package would review their watchlist once a week, and revert or edit any incorrect documentation. Just the fact of someone trying and failing to explain a method could spur the author to provide a better explanation. A useful social contract would grow up, where the developer agrees to answer questions, and the questioner agrees to make the first cut at documenting the answer. There could be a change in the culture of doing without documentation, and (I believe) a rapid improvement in the completeness of documentation. And imagine if the quality and completeness of the documentation became a positive selling point for Pharo. As Mariano said about the release images, what a shame to build the perfect system but only a dozen people be able to use it. Thanks to all the contributors for your great work. Help us to help you to finish it to showroom standard. ...Stan -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Solving-the-documentation-problem-Capturing-tacit-know… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 31, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Beginner question :) search and replace in String

by Levente Uzonyi

On Thu, 31 Dec 2009, Lukas Renggli wrote: >> Anyway, the +10 bounty for a regex solution is still open! > > 'bar' asRegex copy: 'foobarqux' replacingMatchesWith: 'XYZ' Or: 'foobarqux' copyWithRegex: 'bar' matchesReplacedWith: 'XYZ' Levente > > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Dec. 31, 2009