December 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] File Browser (was: Re: [newbee] How do I save the contents of a Workspace?)

by Levente Uzonyi

Quoting StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > > Can you show what you get? > Sure, I attached it. The screenshot was taken from an 1.1-11105 image. (Note that the mouse pointer is on the first list item, but you can't see it, because it's a windows machine...) Levente

Dec. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Stuff

by keith

On 16 Dec 2009, at 19:37, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> >> The Pharo team never asked for the opportunity to develop the new >> version of squeak if they had submitted a proposal at the time, I >> am sure it would have been considered. > > People were against the roadmap we sent for after 3.9 (you remember > that) then we were idiots because we use MC, did traits and a lot > more kind of shit. > >> However they didn't want to be involved in the politics, and I cant >> say I blame them. >> >>> Anyhow, better package >>> management and code sharing (simpler) would be great :) >> >> Sake/Packages was available a year ago > > I know, I read it and I could not understand. I even tried to write > a book chapter on it > but I failed. I can send the draft to prove it. > Sorry Stef but that sounds ridiculous. to load Installer install: 'Packages'. Packages load: 'Seaside'. how hard can it be? Keith

Dec. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Stuff

by keith

On 16 Dec 2009, at 19:37, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> >> The Pharo team never asked for the opportunity to develop the new >> version of squeak if they had submitted a proposal at the time, I >> am sure it would have been considered. > > People were against the roadmap we sent for after 3.9 (you remember > that) then we were idiots because we use MC, did traits and a lot > more kind of shit. > >> However they didn't want to be involved in the politics, and I cant >> say I blame them. >> >>> Anyhow, better package >>> management and code sharing (simpler) would be great :) >> >> Sake/Packages was available a year ago > > I know, I read it and I could not understand. I even tried to write > a book chapter on it > but I failed. I can send the draft to prove it. Did you read the class comment? Did you see the video on vimeo? Keith

Dec. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] need hunter to kill the double paste bug.

by John M McIntosh

In pre V5.0 Macintosh VMs The timestamp field is the millisecond clock value for when the event record is created. It has nothing to do with when the event occurred. Each of the keydown/stroke/up make a trip to the clock so the fact it rolled over isn't surprising. On 2009-12-16, at 7:11 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > [keyDown '<Cmd-v>'] 15775001 > [keystroke '<Cmd-v>'] 15775002 > [keyUp 'v'] 15775002 For V5.0 VMs again the data is time when the event was processed, not when it occurred. However keydown/stroke use the same clock value, keyup is *usually* another clock time. Technically the behaviour between the the versions (3.x/4.x/5.x) should be the same, if you can show it's not, then it's a bug. In 5.0 we see the keydown and record data, but we don't actually get the character until text services decides what the unicode value is going to be based on the keyboard/language & deadkey support. Some time after the keydown (one or more) Text services calls insertText: on our view that then makes us generate the keydown, keystroke event using the same millisecond clock value. Milliseconds later the key goes up and we generate the key up event using the current clock time. For control keys (ie arrow, page up, home, etc) we directly generate key down/stroke events as per above. Key up is still provided. But a special case is if you use keyboard services and have a keyboard pallet supply the characters In that case we generate the keydown/stroke/up using the same millisecond value for each unicode character when insertText: gives us the character string to record. For 4.0 it may generate key down/up event for dead keys that you won't see in 5.0, please supply an example if anyone feels that is an issue. -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

Dec. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [newbee] How do I save the contents of a Workspace?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I tried to open a zip file and I do not get a proposal to open the archive viewer. When I use decompress file I get a GZIP....error telling me that this is not a zipped stream Funny http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?thanks=1618 http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1619

Dec. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [newbee] How do I save the contents of a Workspace?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks for reporting it. Now I tried to reproduce it and I get that. Can you show what you get? I'm on 1.1-11104 > For example: right click on a text file in the upper right panel, the first 3 menuitems are the same "compress file". > (And I'm missing the zip viewer which was super cool IMO) But I thought that we kept the archiveViewer. We should not lose it since I was good. Stef > > > Levente > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Stuff

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>> > The Pharo team never asked for the opportunity to develop the new version of squeak if they had submitted a proposal at the time, I am sure it would have been considered. People were against the roadmap we sent for after 3.9 (you remember that) then we were idiots because we use MC, did traits and a lot more kind of shit. > However they didn't want to be involved in the politics, and I cant say I blame them. > >> Anyhow, better package >> management and code sharing (simpler) would be great :) > > Sake/Packages was available a year ago I know, I read it and I could not understand. I even tried to write a book chapter on it but I failed. I can send the draft to prove it. Stef

Dec. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Stuff

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Keith, How can you state that the Pharo team did not ask to build a new version of Squeak? Stef was in charge of a release and was left throwing his hands up in frustration at the obstruction and inaction of the Squeak community. Fortunately, he channeled that frustration in a positive way. Ideas such as we see taking shape in Pharo were openly ridiculed on the Squeak mailing lists - look there for any progress differential that you cannot explain. Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of keith Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:11 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Stuff On 16 Dec 2009, at 08:15, GeertClaes wrote: I don't know the entire background and I most definitively don't want to start something here but it looks like politics. The "Pharo Project" team seems to have achieved more in 1 year than Squeak had in a decade - from my point of view :) Yeah but I actually had a plan, and that plan was manifest in lots of technology improvements that are external to the core. The fact that pharo core moved on, did not mean that it was leaving squeak behind, because Pharo still doesn't have have any of those improvements, you are still limping along with only one core group of developers in charge, no test tools, and none of the actual problems I need fixing have been fixed yet. (changes file limits?) We were just putting our emphasis in different places. We wanted tools like atomic loading. (unfortunately Pharo team took the expertise needed to make that happen) People doing actual work can cope with a less than optimal core for a few years. However having package management and testing tools that work is far more useful. We did all that in the squeak community. But due to the squeak board panicing and throwing all of the 4 years of progress away because they didn't understand the extent of it. They too went back to a 3.10 base image and forked, so now it does indeed look like squeak made no progress. My point of view is that squeak has made much more progress on important things than pharo has. When I started using squeak it was unusable because it wasn't possible to load anything due to lack of documentation of dependencies. Now due to politics all of those advances have been binned and so Pharo wins by default. There should not even be a competition. I detest competition, and because everything I have tried to do in collaboration over 4 years has ended up in a competition, this has led me to simply leave the community. In 4 years I have only ever had 2 people offer to work with me on something. I am a bit confused what the idea of Squeak using PharoCore as the base (or core) would be? Is the suggestion to have Squeak become a sub-project of No the idea would be to share common core packages such as Network, Collections, Compiler, building upon usage of common packages such as MC and SUnit, which are needed for loading and testing. Pharo, building on top of PharoCore in a similar way as Pharo (dev/web) does? I wouldn't think the Squeak team is willing to handover the "core" to Pharo, otherwise there would never have been a Pharo project in the first place .... or am I barking up the wrong tree? The Pharo team never asked for the opportunity to develop the new version of squeak if they had submitted a proposal at the time, I am sure it would have been considered. However they didn't want to be involved in the politics, and I cant say I blame them. Anyhow, better package management and code sharing (simpler) would be great :) Sake/Packages was available a year ago. Keith

Dec. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Stuff

by keith

On 16 Dec 2009, at 08:15, GeertClaes wrote: > > I don't know the entire background and I most definitively don't > want to > start something here but it looks like politics. The "Pharo > Project" team > seems to have achieved more in 1 year than Squeak had in a decade - > from my > point of view :) Yeah but I actually had a plan, and that plan was manifest in lots of technology improvements that are external to the core. The fact that pharo core moved on, did not mean that it was leaving squeak behind, because Pharo still doesn't have have any of those improvements, you are still limping along with only one core group of developers in charge, no test tools, and none of the actual problems I need fixing have been fixed yet. (changes file limits?) We were just putting our emphasis in different places. We wanted tools like atomic loading. (unfortunately Pharo team took the expertise needed to make that happen) People doing actual work can cope with a less than optimal core for a few years. However having package management and testing tools that work is far more useful. We did all that in the squeak community. But due to the squeak board panicing and throwing all of the 4 years of progress away because they didn't understand the extent of it. They too went back to a 3.10 base image and forked, so now it does indeed look like squeak made no progress. My point of view is that squeak has made much more progress on important things than pharo has. When I started using squeak it was unusable because it wasn't possible to load anything due to lack of documentation of dependencies. Now due to politics all of those advances have been binned and so Pharo wins by default. There should not even be a competition. I detest competition, and because everything I have tried to do in collaboration over 4 years has ended up in a competition, this has led me to simply leave the community. In 4 years I have only ever had 2 people offer to work with me on something. > I am a bit confused what the idea of Squeak using PharoCore as the > base (or > core) would be? Is the suggestion to have Squeak become a sub- > project of No the idea would be to share common core packages such as Network, Collections, Compiler, building upon usage of common packages such as MC and SUnit, which are needed for loading and testing. > Pharo, building on top of PharoCore in a similar way as Pharo (dev/ > web) > does? I wouldn't think the Squeak team is willing to handover the > "core" to > Pharo, otherwise there would never have been a Pharo project in the > first > place .... or am I barking up the wrong tree? The Pharo team never asked for the opportunity to develop the new version of squeak if they had submitted a proposal at the time, I am sure it would have been considered. However they didn't want to be involved in the politics, and I cant say I blame them. > Anyhow, better package > management and code sharing (simpler) would be great :) Sake/Packages was available a year ago. Keith

Dec. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [BUG] [ :a | ] value: 1

by Lukas Renggli

Ok, I created http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1614 for the block issue. Additionally I created the following reports: About a compiled method that is not equal to itself http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1615 About the violation of the trait flattening property http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1617 Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Dec. 16, 2009