December 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [BUG] [ :a | ] value: 1

by Martin McClure

GemStone answers nil. -Martin

Dec. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [newbee] How do I save the contents of a Workspace?

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

I suggest simple text files with a known extension (.ws is normally used by some Smalltalks, so we could use it to avoid extension pollution...) Em 16/12/2009 09:51, CÃ©drick BÃ©ler < cdrick65(a)gmail.com > escreveu: I think this is a valuable feature. Should we save in a particular file extension (.wst ? or simply text files ?) so that we can also have load opening from a a list of files of that format. This would be nice for tutorials instead of saving workspace content in a method. CÃ©drick 2009/12/16 alesch <alex(a)schenkman.info> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 11:45, Damien Cassou [via Smalltalk] <[hidden email]> wrote: On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:29 AM, alesch <[hidden email]> wrote: > I remember I used a menu item in Squeak, but I cannot find in Pharo. You can't. Do you misss that feature? Yes I do. View this message in context: Re: [Pharo-project] [newbee] How do I save the contents of a Workspace? Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [newbee] How do I save the contents of a Workspace?

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

I miss, perhaps because I'm used to in other Smalltalks. . . Em 16/12/2009 08:45, Damien Cassou < damien.cassou(a)gmail.com > escreveu: On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:29 AM, alesch wrote: > I remember I used a menu item in Squeak, but I cannot find in Pharo. You can't. Do you misss that feature? -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] MagmaBrowser

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

+1 Em 16/12/2009 08:31, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > escreveu: I would like the same for UML document in packages :) Stef On Dec 16, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > This is an excellent job. Congratulations HernÃ¡n. > > I have a question....how could you draw the photo instead of the array of bytes on the browser? I really hate when developing with seaside and I have some pictures in my filelibrary class and when I browse them I see the array of bits...but I want to see the picture!!! > > Thanks > > Mariano > > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 11:18 AM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand wrote: > Dear all, > I did a new Browser for the Magma object-oriented database, > implemented on top of the OmniBrowser framework. I've uploaded a demo > video in YouTube for the impatient : > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxUaOFRHFPk > > The project Home Page is : http://swikicaicyt.homeip.net/WebOpus/56 > (you may access to other projects using > http://www.caicyt.gov.ar/letodoc/paquetes-publicados) you will find > there pre-built images ready for download for both Pharo and Squeak, > besides installation instructions for installing and testing the > MagmaBrowser in your image. Currently the status is under testing and > bug-fixing, and I know there is a lot of things I should include, but > you may take a look anyway as I browsed local repositories without > problems last times I've used it, so I hope you may find it useful > too. > > Finally, I want to publicly thank to Norberto Manzanos for letting me > doing this, Chris Muller for his nice reviews and the OmniBrowser > developers for mantaining such a great framework. > > HernÃ¡n > _______________________________________________ > Magma mailing list > Magma(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/magma > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Stuff

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

Em 16/12/2009 08:15, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > escreveu: > You are too meta for me :) > What do you suggest in basic terms (yes this is too early for me > but my brain is starting to work again). > Now just a point. The squeak archives is full of our > history. Historians can go there and get the why we are here, what > we did and what was the problem at that point. And I believe that > they will really deeply understand. We only did one fork, some other > did multiple ones but apparently they had the rights to do > so. Newcomers can judge but may be they are wrong too :) > Guys let us continue build a shiny future this is more fun than ego > problems. My goal with pharo is > > - to create a world where people can make a living with an > open-source smalltalk. > - make it credible to the outside world (you know python, ruby, lua, java....) > - make sure that we can adapt to the future changes > - be the substrate of people new inventions > - learn and expand my knowledge > Stef > PS: I should not have forwarded this mail, I was dreaming about a > better world but it does not exist so let us continue Stef, >From time to time have a message like this is not something you should shy away from, but instead send it as a leadership call. Also, as Pharo is now a reality is no longer only a dream but a _vision_. As we're articulating on having funding, etc., it's becoming more than a vision but a _project_! my 0.019999.... -- Cesar Rabak

Dec. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [Vm-dev] Re: squeak VM 5.0

by Laval Jannik

Hi Eliot, hi John, This is what I do: - create a class var in SystemDictionary - accessors (wordSize and wordSize:), the first one can initialize the variable if nil, the second is to modify the value in case of 64bits image. Maybe the second one could be integrated in System-Tracing file. - in CompiledMethod, initialPC use it. Maybe we could integrate it in pharoCore. Cheers, Jannik ======= 'From PharoCore1.1ALPHA of ''19 October 2009'' [Latest update: #11088] on 16 December 2009 at 11:06:21 pm'! IdentityDictionary subclass: #SystemDictionary instanceVariableNames: 'cachedClassNames ' classVariableNames: 'LastImageName LastQuitLogPosition LowSpaceProcess LowSpaceSemaphore MemoryHogs ShutDownList SpecialSelectors StartUpList StartupStamp SystemChanges WordSize ' poolDictionaries: '' category: 'System-Support'! !SystemDictionary class methodsFor: 'initialization' stamp: 'jannik.laval 12/16/2009 22:40'! wordSize WordSize ifNil: [WordSize := [SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 40] on: Error do: [4]]. ^WordSize! ! !SystemDictionary class methodsFor: 'initialization' stamp: 'jannik.laval 12/16/2009 22:40'! wordSize: aNumber WordSize := aNumber! ! IdentityDictionary subclass: #SystemDictionary instanceVariableNames: 'cachedClassNames' classVariableNames: 'LastImageName LastQuitLogPosition LowSpaceProcess LowSpaceSemaphore MemoryHogs ShutDownList SpecialSelectors StartUpList StartupStamp SystemChanges WordSize' poolDictionaries: '' category: 'System-Support'! !CompiledMethod methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'jannik.laval 12/16/2009 22:41'! initialPC "Answer the program counter for the receiver's first bytecode." ^ (self numLiterals + 1) * SystemDictionary wordSize + 1! ! ======= On Dec 16, 2009, at 18:32 , Eliot Miranda wrote: > Um, I'm _quite_ serious on insisting that Smalltalk wordSize be implemented in some way that caches the value in e.g. a class variable (or class inst var for max speed) that is reevaluated on startup. initialPC is evaluated a lot, e.g. once for every method in a "browse inst var refs". This is performance-critical, and going to a slow primitive to access something that can only change at startup is not a good idea. Please arrange that e.g. SystemDictionary gains a class var that caches the word size. > > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:48 AM, John M McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> wrote: > > RIght and it's 12:30 am again, > > So the MAGIC fixes for the tracer to let you build a 64bit Pharo image are below. > No doubt they apply to closure based squeak trunk images. > > Could someone can be kind enough to integrate them into the current System-Tracing.2forPharo.cs ? > Then some people in Europe? can grab the current Pharo/Trunk image and convert it, and run some smoke tests. > BTW you need to use the Squeak.5.0.0.b9.64*64.app.zip to run a 64bit image > > Don't forget to convert you have to use a powerpc, or a squeak VM that is running as powerpc (via get info settings) on your macintel machine. > Still need someone to *fix* the systemtracer so it will run on intel machines. (Hint watch how it writes out integer data). ... > > Changes below: > > "This is the magic change, it's not the conversion of the image that is bad. It's the Smalltalk code assumption of is that 4 or 8 bytes? " > "There likely should be a Pharo/Squeak bug for this since it should be using wordSize not a magic number of 4" > > Eliot notes "Bravo! But Smalltalk wordSize has to be implemented in some way that caches the value in e.g. a class variable (or class inst var for max speed) that is reevaluated on startup." > > So I'll let someone propose/write a clever solution since the Smalltalk wordSize is computational heavy. > > CompiledMethod>>initialPC > "Answer the program counter for the receiver's first bytecode." > > ^ (self numLiterals + 1) * (Smalltalk wordSize) + 1 > > > "This next method isn't used much, should be. But the System-Tracing.2forPharo.cs trashes it with a ancient version. > This is the correct version" > > SystemDictionary>>wordSize > "Answer the size (in bytes) of an object pointer." > "Smalltalk wordSize" > ^[SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 40] on: Error do: [4] > > "Changes to properly fix up BlockClosure in the SystemTracer2" > > SystemTracer2>>object: object allFieldsWithIndex: block collect: sequenceableCollectionClass > "Evaluate block against each of the pointer fields with index, and collect the results in an instance of sequenceableCollectionClass" > > | fixedSize results varSize nilResults blockvalue | > object isCompiledMethod ifTrue: > [results := sequenceableCollectionClass new: 1 + object numLiterals. > 1 to: 1 + object numLiterals do: > [:j | results at: j put: (block value: (object objectAt: j) value: j)]. > ^ results]. > > fixedSize := object class instSize. > varSize := object basicSize. > results := sequenceableCollectionClass new: fixedSize + varSize. > 1 to: fixedSize do: > [:j | results at: j put: (block value: (object instVarAt: j) value: j)]. > 1 to: varSize do: > [:j | > results at: fixedSize + j put: (block value: (object basicAt: j) value: fixedSize + j)]. > > object isContextPart ifTrue: > [(object instVarAt: 2) ifNotNil: > ["May need to adjust PC and startPC if changing wordSize..." > blockvalue := (object instVarAt: 2)+(self pcDeltaForMethod: object method). > results at: 2 put: (block value: blockvalue value: 2)]. > ((object isMemberOf: BlockContext) and: [object home notNil]) ifTrue: > [results at: 5 put: (block value: (object instVarAt: 5)+(self pcDeltaForMethod: object method) value: 5)]. > "Need to fill out the nils beyond the knowable end of stack" > nilResults := sequenceableCollectionClass new: object frameSize - object basicSize. > 1 to: nilResults size do: > [:j | nilResults at: j put: (block value: nil value: j)]. > ^ results , nilResults]. > object class = BlockClosure ifTrue: > ["May need to adjust PC and startPC if changing wordSize..." > blockvalue := (object instVarAt: 2)+(self pcDeltaForMethod: object method). > results at: 2 put: (block value: blockvalue value: 2)]. > ^ results > > > >> Eliot and I spent 30 minutes chatting about what is wrong. The conclusion is we *think* we are doing the right thing, > >> yet the Virtual Machine says the image is busted. So a quick fix is not apparent, and we'll dig more. > > -- > =========================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com > =========================================================================== > > > > >

Dec. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [BUG] [ :a | ] value: 1

by Chris Kassopulo

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 12:44:40 -0500, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Dolphin gets it right (answers nil). st/x also answers nil.

Dec. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Stuff

by Igor Stasenko

2009/12/16 keith <keith_hodges(a)yahoo.co.uk>: > > On 16 Dec 2009, at 08:15, GeertClaes wrote: > > I don't know the entire background and I most definitively don't want to > start something here but it looks like politics. Â The "Pharo Project" team > seems to have achieved more in 1 year than Squeak had in a decade - from my > point of view :) > > Yeah but I actually had a plan, and that plan was manifest in lots of > technology improvements that are external to the core. The fact that pharo > core moved on, did not mean that it was leaving squeak behind, because Pharo > still doesn't have have any of those improvements, you are still limping > along with only one core group of developers in charge, no test tools, and > none of the actual problems I need fixing have been fixed yet. (changes file > limits?)Â We were just putting our emphasis in different places. We wanted > tools like atomic loading. (unfortunately Pharo team took the expertise > needed to make that happen) > People doing actual work can cope with a less than optimal core for a few > years. However having package management and testing tools that work is far > more useful. We did all that in the squeak community. ButÂ due to the squeak > board panicing and throwing all of the 4 years of progress away because they > didn't understand the extent of it. They too went back to a 3.10 base image > and forked, so now it does indeed look like squeak made no progress. My > point of view is that squeak has made much more progress on important things > than pharo has. When I started using squeak it was unusable because it > wasn't possible to load anything due to lack of documentation of > dependencies. NowÂ due to politics all of those advances have been binned and > so Pharo wins by default. > There should not even be a competition. I detest competition, and because > everything I have tried to do in collaboration over 4 years has ended up in > a competition, this has led me to simply leave the community. In 4 years I > have only ever had 2 people offer to work with me on something. > > I am a bit confused what the idea of Squeak using PharoCore as the base (or > core) would be? Â Is the suggestion to have Squeak become a sub-project of > > No the idea would be to share common core packages such as Network, > Collections, Compiler, building upon usage of common packages such as MC and > SUnit, which are needed for loading and testing. > > Pharo, building on top of PharoCore in a similar way as Â Pharo (dev/web) > does? Â I wouldn't think the Squeak team is willing to handover the "core" to > Pharo, otherwise there would never have been a Pharo project in the first > place .... or am I barking up the wrong tree? > > The Pharo team never asked for the opportunity to develop the new version of > squeak if they had submitted a proposal at the time, I am sure it would have > been considered. Â However they didn't want to be involved in the politics, > and I cant say I blame them. > > Â Anyhow, better package > management and code sharing (simpler) would be great :) > > Sake/Packages was available a year ago. > I could commet in a detail on things which i don't agree with you, but i don't want to repeat myself. Words already been said (multiple times) and if you would want to listen, you will hear. But you seem simply not listening or just ignoring. And then don't you think that you not better than others, who not willing to listen, but feel offended that nobody seem wants to listen them? Such attitude makes any compromise impossible & futile. And, Keith, each time you start blaming someone, ask yourself, what makes you better than others and gives you the right to judge people and their decisions, putting a labels on them and finally blame for things what they never did. Listen and be heard(c) > Keith > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Dec. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] File Browser (was: Re: [newbee] How do I save the contents of a Workspace?)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks this is really strange. I do not see why on windows it would be different but good catch. Can you enter a bug entry ? Stef On Dec 16, 2009, at 10:12 PM, Levente Uzonyi wrote: > Quoting StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > >> >> Can you show what you get? >> > > Sure, I attached it. The screenshot was taken from an 1.1-11105 image. (Note that the mouse pointer is on the first list item, but you can't see it, because it's a windows machine...) > > > Levente<pharofilebrowser.png>_______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 16, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Stuff

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> >>>> >>> The Pharo team never asked for the opportunity to develop the new version of squeak if they had submitted a proposal at the time, I am sure it would have been considered. >> >> People were against the roadmap we sent for after 3.9 (you remember that) then we were idiots because we use MC, did traits and a lot more kind of shit. >> >>> However they didn't want to be involved in the politics, and I cant say I blame them. >>> >>>> Anyhow, better package >>>> management and code sharing (simpler) would be great :) >>> >>> Sake/Packages was available a year ago >> >> I know, I read it and I could not understand. I even tried to write a book chapter on it >> but I failed. I can send the draft to prove it. > > Did you read the class comment? > > Did you see the video on vimeo? yes after way after.... I even got your voice :) But I understand your feeling. Stef

Dec. 16, 2009