December 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Developer guide ... ?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

You're twisting what I said; I did not put CORBA at the top, I simply acknowledged that it has some value. SSL is useful to the point that I find NO excuse for its not having been wrapped long ago by Sqeuak. The cryptography team _insisted_ on building their own stack vs. using OpenSSL. They managed it; then they burned out. If I have the facts wrong and am missing code, please tell me. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:16 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Developer guide ... ? On Wed, 30 Dec 2009, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Levente, > > I'll give you a pass on RPC, on SOAP for sure, and _almost_ on CORBA :) However, a culture of dismissing important things as crap lead us to a point approaching 15 years into Squeak's existence where it does not have ready access to SSL. I know about stunnel, but that is more cheat than fix. Pharo needs to embrace the worthy or we will still be on the fringe 15 years from now, and that would be tragic. There's an SSL implementation in the Cryptography package, though I don't know if it works or not. If CORBA is so important then why doesn't exist a free smalltalk implementation after 18 years? Levente > > Bill > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of > Levente Uzonyi > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:14 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Developer guide ... ? > > On Wed, 30 Dec 2009, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> Levente, >> >> I have to call you out on something: SSL is **definitely** not crap, and we should have a clean interface to it, probably via OpenSSL. I will eventually create same if not beaten to it. > > That's true, I was thinking about the rpc stuff. > >> >> CORBA is also not crap. To be blunt, none of the listed technologies are crap if one has an externally defined problem (aka something that pay$ the bill$) that requires communicating with something that uses them. I will grant you that most of them have a pretty high crap coefficient, and I would not go out of my way to use them unless "forced" to do so. >> > > Crap may not be the best word (but fits really well IMO), so overcomplicated bloatware. > > > Levente > >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of >> Levente Uzonyi >> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:45 PM >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Developer guide ... ? >> >> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009, Guido Stepken wrote: >> >> [snip] >> >> As others pointed out, these are implemented with blocks. What would you do if, say you wanted to know how to do threading in java? Reading a book or googling is helpful: >> - http://www.google.com/search?q=squeak+threads >> (I guess a chapter on processes would be useful in PBE/SBE.) >> >>> 5. Standards: XML-RPC, SOAP, RMI, CORBA, .... encryption (SSL) ... >>> Without having a precise idea, where to find working examples to >>> exchance data with other systems, i would hesitate to begin to do projects with Pharo/Squeak... >> >> Some of this crap is available at squeaksource/squeakmap. >> >> Levente >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 31, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Developer guide ... ?

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

Bill, I think you nailed it precisely! Although all 'systems' working in Pharo will not be enough if we cannot connect and integrate with the leading technologies that we cannot afford to displace/emulate/write in Pharo smalltalk. -- Cesar Rabak Em 30/12/2009 22:54, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> escreveu: Levente, I'll give you a pass on RPC, on SOAP for sure, and _almost_ on CORBA :) However, a culture of dismissing important things as crap lead us to a point approaching 15 years into Squeak's existence where it does not have ready access to SSL. I know about stunnel, but that is more cheat than fix. Pharo needs to embrace the worthy or we will still be on the fringe 15 years from now, and that would be tragic. Bill

Dec. 31, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Developer guide ... ?

by John M McIntosh

On 2009-12-30, at 4:54 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Levente, > > I'll give you a pass on RPC, on SOAP for sure, and _almost_ on CORBA :) However, a culture of dismissing important things as crap lead us to a point approaching 15 years into Squeak's existence where it does not have ready access to SSL. I know about stunnel, but that is more cheat than fix. Pharo needs to embrace the worthy or we will still be on the fringe 15 years from now, and that would be tragic. > > Bill Well someone needs to sit for a week(s) (an oversimplification?) and write the OpenSSL FFI interface. You have funding for that? -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

Dec. 31, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] We need to do something, seriously!!!! [WAS] Fwd: Issue 1721: Refactoring appears to be broken in web dev image. . .

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

Em 30/12/2009 17:50, Bart Gauquie < bart.gauquie(a)gmail.com > escreveu: > I highly agree also !! > Its related to Pharo for Professional Development thread I started > 2 weeks ago. It basically says the same. My gut feeling is still > that stability should be the number one focus. Its great to > innovate, but innovation must not harm stability. > For me stability is keeping regression bugs to a minimum. To test > the stability of the GUI/Morphic parts of Pharo, I started to create > a little project: http://www.squeaksource.com/MorphicsRecordNPlay/. > This can record mouse events and replay them afterwards. My idea was > to take this as a sort of automated integration testing of Pharo. > You can then record all kinds of stuff: opening a browser, clicking > on a class, try every option out, ... . I've also attempted to > automatically convert these recordings into sunit test cases so they > can be automatically replayed, but I stumbled upon following > limitation: Long method can not be compiled using #compile: > aString. Haven't looked into it further yet. Any ideas here how > these can be replayed? Bart, Can't you store the events in a collection and run them iterating over the collected events instead of attempting to compile all them at once? -- Cesar Rabak

Dec. 31, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Developer guide ... ?

by Levente Uzonyi

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Levente, > > I'll give you a pass on RPC, on SOAP for sure, and _almost_ on CORBA :) However, a culture of dismissing important things as crap lead us to a point approaching 15 years into Squeak's existence where it does not have ready access to SSL. I know about stunnel, but that is more cheat than fix. Pharo needs to embrace the worthy or we will still be on the fringe 15 years from now, and that would be tragic. There's an SSL implementation in the Cryptography package, though I don't know if it works or not. If CORBA is so important then why doesn't exist a free smalltalk implementation after 18 years? Levente > > Bill > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:14 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Developer guide ... ? > > On Wed, 30 Dec 2009, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> Levente, >> >> I have to call you out on something: SSL is **definitely** not crap, and we should have a clean interface to it, probably via OpenSSL. I will eventually create same if not beaten to it. > > That's true, I was thinking about the rpc stuff. > >> >> CORBA is also not crap. To be blunt, none of the listed technologies are crap if one has an externally defined problem (aka something that pay$ the bill$) that requires communicating with something that uses them. I will grant you that most of them have a pretty high crap coefficient, and I would not go out of my way to use them unless "forced" to do so. >> > > Crap may not be the best word (but fits really well IMO), so overcomplicated bloatware. > > > Levente > >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi >> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:45 PM >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Developer guide ... ? >> >> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009, Guido Stepken wrote: >> >> [snip] >> >> As others pointed out, these are implemented with blocks. What would you do if, say you wanted to know how to do threading in java? Reading a book or googling is helpful: >> - http://www.google.com/search?q=squeak+threads >> (I guess a chapter on processes would be useful in PBE/SBE.) >> >>> 5. Standards: XML-RPC, SOAP, RMI, CORBA, .... encryption (SSL) ... >>> Without having a precise idea, where to find working examples to >>> exchance data with other systems, i would hesitate to begin to do projects with Pharo/Squeak... >> >> Some of this crap is available at squeaksource/squeakmap. >> >> Levente >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Dec. 31, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] We need to do something, seriously!!!! [WAS] Fwd: Issue 1721: Refactoring appears to be broken in web dev image. e.g. OBClassNode(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #dynamicProtocols

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 1:54 AM, Adrian Kuhn <akuhn(a)iam.unibe.ch> wrote: > Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@...> writes: > > > What's OP? > > Original Poster > > > With 10502 I cannot even click on a class neither in the code panel. > > I use 10502 and I observe no such bugs (using OB, not O2 though). > mmm are you sure about 1182 ??? And this is not a "simple" bug, YOU CANNOT EVEN DO a right click. I can reproduce it in OB. > > > The one thing one has to do to get a stable dev image is to *revert* [..] > > > > Adrian, would you mind explaining a bit more in details this problem ? > > Open a fresh image and execute > > Gofer it > wiresong: 'ob'; > package: 'OB-Refactory'; > revert > > this will revert all conflicting package extensions of O2 back to those of > OB > so that you can work with both the green and the yellow browser of OB. > > Ok, thanks Adrian. I think we should fix this. I till try it. I would like to hear the opinion of David of Lukas about doing this in the script we use to build images. Cheers Mariano --AA > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Dec. 31, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Developer guide ... ?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Levente, I'll give you a pass on RPC, on SOAP for sure, and _almost_ on CORBA :) However, a culture of dismissing important things as crap lead us to a point approaching 15 years into Squeak's existence where it does not have ready access to SSL. I know about stunnel, but that is more cheat than fix. Pharo needs to embrace the worthy or we will still be on the fringe 15 years from now, and that would be tragic. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:14 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Developer guide ... ? On Wed, 30 Dec 2009, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Levente, > > I have to call you out on something: SSL is **definitely** not crap, and we should have a clean interface to it, probably via OpenSSL. I will eventually create same if not beaten to it. That's true, I was thinking about the rpc stuff. > > CORBA is also not crap. To be blunt, none of the listed technologies are crap if one has an externally defined problem (aka something that pay$ the bill$) that requires communicating with something that uses them. I will grant you that most of them have a pretty high crap coefficient, and I would not go out of my way to use them unless "forced" to do so. > Crap may not be the best word (but fits really well IMO), so overcomplicated bloatware. Levente > Bill > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:45 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Developer guide ... ? > > On Wed, 30 Dec 2009, Guido Stepken wrote: > > [snip] > > As others pointed out, these are implemented with blocks. What would you do if, say you wanted to know how to do threading in java? Reading a book or googling is helpful: > - http://www.google.com/search?q=squeak+threads > (I guess a chapter on processes would be useful in PBE/SBE.) > >> 5. Standards: XML-RPC, SOAP, RMI, CORBA, .... encryption (SSL) ... >> Without having a precise idea, where to find working examples to >> exchance data with other systems, i would hesitate to begin to do projects with Pharo/Squeak... > > Some of this crap is available at squeaksource/squeakmap. > > Levente > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 31, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] We need to do something, seriously!!!! [WAS] Fwd: Issue 1721: Refactoring appears to be broken in web dev image. e.g. OBClassNode(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #dynamicProtocols

by Adrian Kuhn

Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@...> writes: > What's OP? Original Poster > With 10502 I cannot even click on a class neither in the code panel. I use 10502 and I observe no such bugs (using OB, not O2 though). > The one thing one has to do to get a stable dev image is to *revert* [..] > > Adrian, would you mind explaining a bit more in details this problem ? Open a fresh image and execute Gofer it wiresong: 'ob'; package: 'OB-Refactory'; revert this will revert all conflicting package extensions of O2 back to those of OB so that you can work with both the green and the yellow browser of OB. --AA

Dec. 31, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Developer guide ... ?

by Adrian Kuhn

Guido Stepken <gstepken@...> writes: > Perhaps Donald Knuth books ("Art of Computer Programming") could help? Where > e.g. is 'fulltext hash' or 'fulltext search' implemented in Magma, e.t.c.? > Whole world works with fulltext databases (Google, MySQL, PostgreSQL, even > MSSQL, Oracle). Thats 'state of the art'!!!!!!!! Search in TB databases in > milliseconds! Given Knuth's current speed, he'll approximately gonna cover information retrieval when the Enterprise meets the Klingons. Jokes aside, I implemented a state-of-the-art fulltext search for my master's thesis. It is implemented in VW but should be portable to Squeak. Maintenance of the project has been transfered to the Moose project, so please refer to http://www.moosetechnology.org/tools/vw/hapax for more information. --AA

Dec. 31, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Beginner question :) search and replace in String

by Mariano Martinez Peck

BTW....shouldn't that be an issue that deserves opening a bug ticket ? On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 1:21 AM, Adrian Kuhn <akuhn(a)iam.unibe.ch> wrote: > Levente Uzonyi <leves@...> writes: > > > > Method finder does not find a method for > > > > > > 'foobarqux' . 'bar' . 'XYZ' . 'fooXYZqux' > > > > > > and stupid me couldn't find a method on String either. > > > > 'foobarqux' copyReplaceAll: 'bar' with: 'XYZ' > > Gosh, in SequencableCollection ... stoopid me :) > > Thank you Levente! > > --AA > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Dec. 31, 2009