December 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Default code browser

by GeertClaes

Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > > Re the various browsers, they are not terribly well identified, so it > takes work to figure out what I am using. > +1 here Other than that, I find that none of the browsers are at this stage great yet from an intuitive, usability point of view (mind you, I consider myself to be very 'newbie'). I am also looking at Pharo + Seaside or AIDAWeb mainly as an IDE tool to create web apps as I am not that interested (or skilled for that matter) in tinkering with the core. I am hoping that the new package management system (MetaCello in Pharo 1.1?) will streamline some of the confusion and allow the user to have the option to somehow hide "system" or Pharo-Core packages from the IDE. I could be wrong here, but methods of a class can be nicely organized using protocols ... and then there is this whole vague, confusing world of how classes are managed in categories and packages ... but the term package could actually also refer to a category, which is actually a package, but a package can also be a Monticello package, which could be different than the category or should I say package? All this may make perfect sense to the gurus but it is extremely confusing, because packages also need to be able to be grouped into projects (is this the term?) and have dependencies on other packages and/or projects? I haven't even mentioned the confusion of SqueakMap/PharoMap, SqueakSouce/PharoSource, Monticello and Universes. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Default-code-browser-tp4183317p4185502.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 18, 2009

[Pharo-project] Pharo for Professional Development

by Bart Gauquie

Dear all, I've been using Squeak before, now I'm using Pharo. Its still 'hobby' usage. However, on my firm, we have a lot of working groups in which we investigate new technologies. We mainly use Java / .Net. I've initiated a working group around Smalltalk/Seaside. And chose Pharo as a smalltalk platform/dialect, mainly because its free and adaptable. I'm a fan of it, but my colleagues of it have some doubts about it. I know that its not finished yet, and that a lot of improvements are ongoing. The main 'complaint' about Pharo is that the environment is not stable. In a lot of the tools you get exceptions, errors, it breaks something, stuff like that. Thats a shame off course. I expect in an environment that everything just works. We are using Eclipse in our day to day work; nowadays, Eclipse is quite fast and is reliable. Pharo is more or less fast enough, but still not reliable. There are too much 'dead links', messageNotUnderStoods I mean. For instance on latests browse package is not working on the Class Browser. On the Pharo 1.0 branch, there are also dead links here and there. So therefore my question: I highly support that Pharo wants to innovate ; BUT as a developer I first expect that every tool works perfectly, that I can trust it. Furthermore, since Smalltalk environment is written in itself, I expect that every tool is also thoroughly unit tested to avoid regression on the tools. I don't know if it is possible to test the Morphic windows in Pharo. Rephrasing: I think we should focus a lot on making the current system stable, and keeping it stable; and focus on fixing bugs asap (and not just quickly fixing the bug, first at least write a test for it). All these new stuff like NewCompiler, Settings, in the 1.1 are very valuable stuff to add; but we should really keep focusing on stability. I'm saying this because, what I've noticed is that my colleagues are trying the other smalltalks like Cincom; the only reason that that they are doing this , is because the environment is not stable enough: I suspect that a lot of other people are also doing this? I've noticed that there are quite some regression bugs (for instance: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=349) it worked in version x but now is not working anymore. If you have a lot of these, you lose a lot of time. I'd rather make one slow step forward, instead of rushing forward and having to back up. Furthermore I still had some other tools I found very useful in my day to day work that I'm missing in Pharo - Proper keyboard shortcuts: see other thread, did not have time yet to put something on wiki - History of a file: you can always check the local history of a file (comparable with the versions of a message in Pharo), but you can in the same view also see the version of the file on the repository - regardless which versioning system you're using. And quickly open these versions, select 2 of these versions and compare them with each other. This is very valuable tool if you're developing with a lot of people on the same to see every version created and quickly be able to compare them. Is there such functionality in Pharo ? - ... Any thoughts on this? Kind Regards, Bart -- imagination is more important than knowledge - Albert Einstein Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere - Albert Einstein Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination. - Albert Einstein Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love. - Albert Einstein

Dec. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] pharoImage 64 bits

by John McIntosh

Could you give details on the errors? On 12/17/09, Laval Jannik <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > I made a pharoImage 64 bits, based on 11088. > I would like to put it on inria gforge but I do not have administrator > access. > > Now in this image there are 14 test failures, and 65 test errors. > So it works on a VM5.0 - 64x64. > > For now, it is available on: > http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/pharo64/ > > Cheers > > --- > Jannik Laval > --- > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

Dec. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Default code browser

by Lukas Renggli

> For Christmas, I would like :) > - tab support because my laptop has a small screen How are tabs different to the taskbar with all windows maximized? I implemented tabs for OB a few years back, but then came the taskbar which i found more useful (and faster). Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Dec. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] pharoImage 64 bits

by Damien Cassou

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:11 PM, Laval Jannik <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I would like to put it on inria gforge but I do not have administrator access. Try again -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry

Dec. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Default code browser

by Bart Gauquie

Concerning the speed. I've measured the same things you did, and on Pharo 1.1, its about 25% faster than Pharo 1.0. Which is nice, very nice. Regards, Bart On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>wrote: > I use Package Browser, because I find it more confortable, but anyway: > > [O2PackageBrowser openOnClass: Object selector: #printString] timeToRun. > 1236 > > [O2SystemBrowser openOnClass: Object selector: #printString] timeToRun. 578 > > So, there is a big difference. > > I'm on a macbook aluminium > > Cheers, > Esteban > > On 2009-12-17 18:34:20 -0300, Alexandre Bergel > <alexandre(a)bergel.eu> said: > > > [O2PackageBrowser openOnClass: Object selector: #printString] timeToRun > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- imagination is more important than knowledge - Albert Einstein Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere - Albert Einstein Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination. - Albert Einstein Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love. - Albert Einstein

Dec. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Default code browser

by Alexandre Bergel

Exactly! Alexandre On 18 Dec 2009, at 08:02, laurent laffont wrote: > I would like a mix of the three ;). For me > > O2PackageBrowserAdaptor is great for > - monticello integration > - package, hier. groups views, > - history navigation > - explicit icons > > OBSystemBrowserAdaptor for > - speed > - the toolbar (browse, hierarchie, variables, ...) and especially > "versions" button > > Browser for: > - speed > - class comment panel > > To explore the system I use O2PackageBrowserAdaptor, to write code > I use OBSystemBrowserAdaptor. > > For Christmas, I would like :) > - tab support because my laptop has a small screen > - split code panel like emacs/vi to edit/view several methods at once > > Cheers, > > Laurent > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Alexandre Bergel > <alexandre(a)bergel.eu> wrote: > Hi! > > I saw many people using the package browser instead of > OBSystemBrowserAdaptor, even if this last is faster and has less bug. > I am just wondering whether reverting the default browser to > O2PackageBrowser is not something we should consider. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Services

by Marcus Denker

On Dec 17, 2009, at 10:25 PM, Alain Plantec wrote: > Alain Plantec a Ã©crit : >> gloups! >> I've just discovered that the Preferences class has a child. >> yes, yes, it is the ServicePreferences class with a dictionary full of >> Preference instances. >> So, I was always wondering, what are services ? are they used ? > I've browsed a little bit, now I think I understand, it's a kind of > service providing framework > which allows dynamically built menus Yes... we once discusses this with Adrian and Stef, and we think it might be good to remove it for now... because > and yes it seems to be used. not really. there are hooks in the tools, but I think almost no services defined. Services is a bit complex for what it does, and it uses the very ugly Preferences and it's browser... So: remove for now, think about what we want instead in the future. Marcus

Dec. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Default code browser

by laurent laffont

I would like a mix of the three ;). For me O2PackageBrowserAdaptor is great for - monticello integration - package, hier. groups views, - history navigation - explicit icons OBSystemBrowserAdaptor for - speed - the toolbar (browse, hierarchie, variables, ...) and especially "versions" button Browser for: - speed - class comment panel To explore the system I use O2PackageBrowserAdaptor, to write code I use OBSystemBrowserAdaptor. For Christmas, I would like :) - tab support because my laptop has a small screen - split code panel like emacs/vi to edit/view several methods at once Cheers, Laurent On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu>wrote: > Hi! > > I saw many people using the package browser instead of > OBSystemBrowserAdaptor, even if this last is faster and has less bug. > I am just wondering whether reverting the default browser to > O2PackageBrowser is not something we should consider. > > Cheers, > Alexandre >

Dec. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Collecting pharo user company names

by GermÃ¡n Arduino

Hi Pharoers: After the event on BA I put an eye on Pharo with more detail than before. And let me comment that I found it very comfortable to develop software. Even when I continue deploying production solutions in small squeak images, I started using Pharo to the redesign of my Real Estate product. Don't know if this is enough to qualify as "company using Pharo" but wanted to comment anyway. Cheers. -- ================================================= GermÃ¡n S. Arduino <gsa @ arsol.net> Twitter: garduino Arduino Software & Web Hosting http://www.arduinosoftware.com PasswordsPro http://www.passwordspro.com ================================================= 2009/12/17 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > I forgot 10pines so I add you to my document. > I want make it shines. > > Stef > On Dec 17, 2009, at 9:44 PM, Hernan Wilkinson wrote: > >> Hi Stef, >> I can not find where the companies are listed in the site... >> >> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 4:36 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse >> <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> Wait may be I was not clear. >>> I would really like to show that we have a certain number of companies using pharo. >>> So if you are one of these and you are not listed on our web site please let us know. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On Dec 17, 2009, at 12:34 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hi guys >>>> >>>> we are writing a proposal to get an engineer for pharo from INRIA (nothing is clear but we should at least try). >>>> I learned this morning that we could apply. Some meetings are better than others :) >>>> So I have a small list but I'm sure that we have much more companies around using pharo. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Dec. 18, 2009