December 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo for Professional Development

by Bart Gauquie

I think we should rename 1.1. It's not #alpha, it's #unstable. > > Marcus > _______________________________________________ > > I think thats a bad idea. Pharo should also set a standard on stability. It's even in the mission statement: 'By providing a stable and small core system, excellent developer tools, and maintained releases'. Stability means that the 'nightly build' just works: all existing things work as expected, new things in development already partly work. Would it not be arrogantly nice to be so confident in the system, that you can just take the latest release and no errors occur ? Just a thought, Kind Regards, Bart

Dec. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo for Professional Development

by Adrian Lienhard

On Dec 18, 2009, at 10:34 , Bart Gauquie wrote: > Just now, I've been looking into > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1570 I've reported > last > week. Thanks for reporting. Please always send a short mail to the list when you create an issue. See also http://www.pharo-project.org/community/issue-tracking Cheers, Adrian

Dec. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] managing external package with metacello

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

excellent! Stef On Dec 17, 2009, at 11:30 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:51 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > mariano > > I was thinking about the problem of managing pharo with metacello > we should start with the simple ones: the ones we removed from the system > - Sounds > - LedMorph > - MorphicExamples > - (ArchiveViewer) > > > I am agree. Those are the easier. > > Then check the packages that are shared. May be we can also publish metacello descriptions to load them. > and we republish them when they changed. > > Yes, my idea is to publish all the ConfigurationOf... not in their own repositories, but in MetacelloRepository. > > For example for OB I think that lukas publish in squeaksource > the latest version colin ships as sar files. So we can publish in the OBSqueakSouce (not sure that this is good) > or in pharo a ConfigurationOfOB > > I think we can create a ConfigurationOfOB, published in MetacelloRepository (like the other projects) and putting pharo specific in spec for: #pharo and not in spec for: #common (checking of course what goes to what). > > Cheers, > > Mariano > > > Stef > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] MagmaBrowser

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I have the code of cassowary and delta blue if you want. Stef On Dec 17, 2009, at 10:25 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand wrote: > 2009/12/17 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu>: >> Don't you have the '+' and '-' button at the top? Maybe I could rename >> to 'Zoom +' and 'Zoom -'. > > Now I see them. Yes, adding labels would help to get the '+' and '-' > symbols more visibility. > >> >> What do you mean by constraints? Can you give an example of such a >> constraint? > > There is a very old ThingLab video which is the best demo I've seen: > > http://www.cs.washington.edu/research/constraints/videos/thinglab-1978.mov > http://www.fit.vutbr.cz/study/courses/OMP/public/software/sqcdrom2/Document… > > With Constraints you will have a way to say: > -When a user resizes a window, then mantain the font proportion to > stay into the boxes. > -When a window is updated with a new figure (a sibling in the UML for > example) then update the remaining siblings to preserve symmetry, etc. > > Summarising, with constraints you say what do you want to achieve, and > not how to do it. The layout adjustement algorithm will use > constraints to achieve it. There is an implementation of constraints > solvers in Squeak called Cassowary > > http://www.squeaksource.com/Cassowary.html > > Cheers, > > HernÃ¡n > >> >> Alexandre >> >> >> On 17 Dec 2009, at 21:44, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand wrote: >> >>> Hi Alex, >>> I've tried the Mondrian script, nice work, it looks something I >>> could integrate to the Dependency Browser. Does Mondrian support >>> zooming? Do you plan to use constraints for the layout? >>> Cheers, >>> >>> HernÃ¡n >>> >>> 2009/12/17 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu>: >>>> The UML visualization is not lost however. >>>> >>>> Doit the following to load Mondrian: >>>> Gofer new squeaksource: 'Mondrian'; addPackage: >>>> 'ConfigurationOfMondrian'; load. (Smalltalk at: >>>> #ConfigurationOfMondrian) perform: #loadLastStable. >>>> >>>> and then: >>>> MOReadme new umlFor: MOShape withAllSubclasses >>>> >>>> You will have a simple uml view that shows hierarchy of MOShape. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>> On 17 Dec 2009, at 13:28, Torsten Bergmann wrote: >>>> >>>>> Back in "the good old Pharo days" (TM) we had a >>>>> >>>>> ScriptLoader loadSuperOB >>>>> >>>>> and I remember this browser already providing a >>>>> UML class diagram when you selected a class in >>>>> the browser ... >>>>> >>>>> Bye >>>>> T. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jetzt kostenlos herunterladen: Internet Explorer 8 und Mozilla >>>>> Firefox 3.5 - >>>>> sicherer, schneller und einfacher! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/atbrowser >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] ProjectLauncher readDocumentAtStartup

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

You read my mind :) We will arrive there. I hope to send an announce soon for a stupid pre alpha :) Stef > sorry stef, snowed under. will check and comment soon > > I also want to write to stderr and stdout, just like you no doubt for > coral but that is another day ;-) > > Mike > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:36 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> :) >> Thanks alain. I decided to kill red test on something else... :) >> but I will look at that. >> >> Stef >> >> On Dec 17, 2009, at 9:06 PM, Alain Plantec wrote: >> >>> StÃ©phane Ducasse a Ã©crit : >>>> Mike do you know if this problem was fixed because I need it for coral. >>>> >>> Hi Stef, >>> With my next slice you will be able to do >>> ProjectLauncher readDocumentAtStartup: true >>> >>> Alain >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> On Dec 15, 2009, at 12:15 AM, Michael Roberts wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi, this method was changed recently I think probably by the >>>>> preferences work (Alain Plantec). It used to be a pref. Now it is hard >>>>> coded to false. >>>>> >>>>> Is there a reason? It prevents scripts being executed on the command >>>>> line. It causes the Mason example to not work in Pharo, and a bunch >>>>> of other stuff to break. >>>>> >>>>> Is there a replacement for loading code on the command line? otherwise >>>>> this needs changing, perhaps you did not know it is registered in the >>>>> auto start mechanism. >>>>> >>>>> thanks, >>>>> Mike >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] File Browser (was: Re: [newbee] How do I save the contents of a Workspace?)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

thanks. It seems that nile registered its own streams which makes sense. Stef On Dec 17, 2009, at 10:19 PM, Levente Uzonyi wrote: > This code: > Transcript open. > FileList allRegisteredServices do: [ :each | Transcript show: each; cr ] > > Prints this: > SimpleServiceEntry: (ChangeSet --- fileIntoNewChangeSet:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (ChangeList --- browseStream:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (ChangeList --- browseRecentLogOnPath:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (ChangeList --- browseCompressedChangesFile:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (FileContentsBrowser --- browseStream:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (FilePackage --- conflictsWithUpdatedMethods:) > FileModifyingSimpleServiceEntry: (FileStream --- removeLineFeeds:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (FileStream --- fileIn:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (Form --- importImage:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (Form --- openImageInWindow:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (Form --- setBackgroundFromImageFileNamed:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (GZipReadStream --- viewContents:) > FileModifyingSimpleServiceEntry: (GZipReadStream --- saveContents:) > FileModifyingSimpleServiceEntry: (GZipWriteStream --- compressFile:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (MCVersionReader --- loadVersionStream:fromDirectory:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (MCVersionReader --- mergeVersionStream:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (MCVersionReader --- openVersionFromStream:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (MczInstaller --- loadVersionFile:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (Morph --- fromFileName:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (NaturalLanguageTranslator --- mergeTranslationFileNamed:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (SARInstaller --- installSAR:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (TTCFont --- newTextStyleFromTTFile:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (TTFontReader --- openTTFFile:) > FileModifyingSimpleServiceEntry: (NSGZipWriteStream --- compressFile:) > FileModifyingSimpleServiceEntry: (NSDecoderGZipWriteStream --- compressFile:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (AnimatedImageMorph --- openGIFInWindow:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (Form --- setBackgroundFromImageFileNamed:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (ScorePlayerMorph --- playMidiFile:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (NSGZipReadStream --- viewContents:) > FileModifyingSimpleServiceEntry: (NSGZipReadStream --- saveContents:) > SimpleServiceEntry: (NSDecoderGZipReadStream --- viewContents:) > FileModifyingSimpleServiceEntry: (NSDecoderGZipReadStream --- saveContents:) > > > Levente > > On Thu, 17 Dec 2009, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> levente can you print >> >> FileList allRegistered allRegisteredServices >> >> On my image I get >> >> SimpleServiceEntry: (ChangeSet --- fileIntoNewChangeSet:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (ChangeList --- browseStream:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (ChangeList --- browseRecentLogOnPath:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (ChangeList --- browseCompressedChangesFile:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (FileContentsBrowser --- browseStream:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (FilePackage --- conflictsWithUpdatedMethods:) >> FileModifyingSimpleServiceEntry: (FileStream --- removeLineFeeds:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (FileStream --- fileIn:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (Form --- importImage:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (Form --- openImageInWindow:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (Form --- setBackgroundFromImageFileNamed:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (GZipReadStream --- viewContents:) >> FileModifyingSimpleServiceEntry: (GZipReadStream --- saveContents:) >> FileModifyingSimpleServiceEntry: (GZipWriteStream --- compressFile:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (MCVersionReader --- loadVersionStream:fromDirectory:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (MCVersionReader --- mergeVersionStream:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (MCVersionReader --- openVersionFromStream:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (MczInstaller --- loadVersionFile:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (Morph --- fromFileName:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (NaturalLanguageTranslator --- mergeTranslationFileNamed:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (SARInstaller --- installSAR:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (TTCFont --- newTextStyleFromTTFile:) >> SimpleServiceEntry: (TTFontReader --- openTTFFile:)) >> >> >> >> On Dec 16, 2009, at 10:12 PM, Levente Uzonyi wrote: >> >>> Quoting StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>> >>>> >>>> Can you show what you get? >>>> >>> >>> Sure, I attached it. The screenshot was taken from an 1.1-11105 image. (Note that the mouse pointer is on the first list item, but you can't see it, because it's a windows machine...) >>> >>> >>> Levente<pharofilebrowser.png>_______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] about sluggines on linux

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

No problem. > Hi Stef, > I dind't see your email until today, when I came back to this topic! Don't know why it was marked as read :(. > Just to report the same test under Vista (obviously, on the same machine). > > '225948808 bytecodes/sec; 6804203 sends/sec' > they are coherent with the previous ones. > '533333333 bytecodes/sec; 12157397 sends/sec' and clearly and indication that we should get also slower machines to kick us to optimize or rethink certain decisions. Stef

Dec. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo for Professional Development

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

> > > I think we should rename 1.1. It's not #alpha, it's #unstable. > > good idea. Just as a feedback. I tried to use Pharo to implement some algorithms in course I'm giving. This was instructive ... but I think I won't do it next year (except if I implement a pseudo-language a la etoy tile to do algorithmics). The major showstopper was Smalltalk syntax (except for good students). But, more importantly I think (and it bet this was far worst in squeak) is the lack of coherence, ergonomy, etc... I know this is something difficult. I don't espacially care for myself as I know all workarounds but these are really annoying for newcomer who at the end have a feelling of "this doesn't really work". I think ergonomy and coherence is something to discuss... Here are some remarks: -I've always felt bored with the tool size that I always are resizing manually (I would prefer full screen by default actually) -some shortcuts works with alt and ctrl, some only with alt (disturbing for newcomer that are used to ctrl - I use alt) -shortcuts are working primarly for qwerty keyboards (especially those that add remove []) -the selection of the code pane is sometime boring too... you have to click twice, or deselect/select -... I know I should open bugs tickets for that and will do it (just tell me those). But more importantly, I think we should agree on these important usability feature. And especially, I'd like we rethink the browser. Alain did the whisker browser no ? What I want to say here is that it might be more appropriate for newcomers to have one big robust coding tool (classic browser + workspace + Transcript + Test Runner). I cannot do that by myself but it could be one topic to discuss in a meeting. My 2 cents, -- CÃ©drick ps: again, I think experienced smalltalkers will keep on using old classic tools but this represent too much distraction for newcomers.

Dec. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo for Professional Development

by Bart Gauquie

Hi, The point I'm trying to make is that even on an alpha release, everything that worked before should still work perfectly. The new stuff being added are first buggy; seems normal to me. But if the new stuff is breaking old, working stuff, and we only notice it after a month; then it will take us a lot of time, debugging the issues, investigating them; time we should spent instead on adding new stuff. The feeling I have is that most of the code is unit tested, which is fine; but that little code is integration tested. The bug I described above is a misconfiguration between some packages, and since the environment itself are also just packages, there should be some integration test to test the pharoxxx.dev.image to see if everything is integrating correctly with each other. I mean a testcase which just opens a browser and 'clicks' on all items to see if everything is still working. On my day to day work I firmly believe in taking small steps, making sure that these small steps don't break anything. And if there is a test failing then, taking that small step; i immediately get the feedback that my small change has influence on some other part of the system, which I did not see before. Every bug we find is first reproduced by writing a failing test for it. Like this we are sure we fix the right thing, and furthermore we are sure that this bug will never reoccur again. We used to have someone on the team who got furious if only one file was committed during a change which added behaviour. She was right: every change should have a corresponding test. Again about the bug I posted. How would this issue be fixed? How can I fix this? I can in the O2classes / test create a 'mock' description which knows the packages instead of the package message. And then fix it then, that seems to be step one. However I did not actually reproduce the bug, since the bug was: I click in a System browser, and call browse package, which failed. It is that kind of test I want to write for it. Since the tools are part of the environment, they should be integration tested. I will make an attempt to write such a test. |The Smalltalk "tradition" slightly differs here, as the more tolerant |developers use the alpha build, but people doing production work use the |latest stable release (in this case 1.0). |I've done a number of production applications in Squeak and we always |used the stable version for that. Or, in case we really needed something |from the trunk version, we only updated occasionally when we were sure |it had reached a somewhat stable plateau. You're correct on this one, however in this case, Pharo IS the production work. It is Pharo itself we are also developing. And since it is development, I think we should make sure the quality keeps up at a highest level possible, even if modifying it. I don't mean to criticize, I love the opensource initiative that Pharo is, I'm just trying to help Pharo further. Any other thoughts on this? Kind Regards, Bart

Dec. 18, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo for Professional Development

by Marcus Denker

On Dec 18, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Bart Gauquie wrote: > Hi Marcus, > > I can understand your reasoning. The point I was trying to make is that even for the 1.1 alpha release everything should be stable that was stable before. I really appreciate the effort everybody does in it; the new stuff being added and all; but breaking things that worked before is not improving. If its not stable, nobody will use it. I think we should rename 1.1. It's not #alpha, it's #unstable. Marcus

Dec. 18, 2009