November 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Continuous Integration Server for Pharo?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Good! Did you look/based on testServer? Did you check mason? I'm not sure that it was announce or that it is open-source or welcoming contribution? I think that this is important that we get a momentum. Stef On Nov 29, 2009, at 3:23 PM, Jorge Ressia wrote: > Hi, > > I am currently working with Diego Kogan on the Continuous Integration > Server for pharo. We will be working heavily the comming two weeks in > order to finish the implementation of the basic requirements. Our case > studies will be Moose and Seaside. > > We expect ot have a running version for mid december. > > Cheers, > > Jorge > > On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 7:53 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> Hi bart >> >> we use some scripts (developed at netstyle) >> and ESUG will support hernan student to develop one. I know that Jorge started also and should work with them. >> So we should join forces. >> The idea is that the server should be able to load metacello configuration. >> Jorge/Hernan/Simon >> - what is the status >> - how could we join forces? >> >> Stef >> >> >> On Nov 28, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Bart Gauquie wrote: >> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> I come from a Java world and there we use for instance : http://hudson-ci.org/ to do a continuous integration build. Which means all latest code gets updated, all test ran & if build successful, the code is tagged (so you can take the code again from a successful build). It also provides a nice GUI, and lets you inspect previous builds, the results from that build, ... . >>> >>> In Pharo, I did not directly find an alternative, and therefor, also as an exercise, I tried to build one myself. >>> The primitive, but working result so far is: http://www.squeaksource.com/BuildBot. >>> >>> This project depends on BBProjectDescription, which defines class BBBuildProjectDescription with defines: >>> â¢ BBBuildProjectDescription>>allProjectPackageNames >>> â¢ BBBuildProjectDescription>>installLatestWithDependencies >>> â¢ BBBuildProjectDescription>>buildsClassToPutVersionsOn >>> What buildbot then does is using a BBBuildProjectDescription , checkout all latest code, run the tests for all these packages & , if successfull, take the buildsClassToPutVersionsOn and add a new method on it, describing the exact package numbers : >>> for instance: >>> BuildBotMockProjectBuilds class >> packagesForBuild20091127102654 >>> ^#(('TODO' -> 'TODO-BKBAG.5.mcz') ('BuildBtMockProject' -> 'BuildBtMockProject-BartGauquie.7.mcz') ). >>> >>> Using this information I can easily install this exact version. Furthermore creating a release is then just creating for instance a class BuildBotMockProjectReleases with: >>> BuildBotMockProjectReleasesclass >> release_1_0 >>> ^BuildBotMockProjectBuilds packagesForBuild20091127102654 >>> >>> I am in fact 'tagging' a group packages that belong together and work together. So I can rollout this exact versions of the packages to some image automatically. >>> >>> >>> However, >>> Today I noticed that there already existed a project: http://www.squeaksource.com/TestServerSimple which more or less does the same thing. The only thing it does not do, or I did not find it, is to version the build, so that you can restore a project again ; a project which is consisting of a number of packages which are compatible and for which all tests ran. Is there a way to do that in TestServerSimple? >>> >>> Furthermore, are there any other projects that do a similar thing I'm not aware of? Is there any default way in Pharo to build a project which consists of multiple packages that each have different versions? >>> >>> I've seen MetaCello & Gofer as some other way 2 load groups of packages, but no integration into some kind of ci tool. >>> >>> This kind of automated ci server seems 2 me an essential tool in Pharo. >>> >>> Thanks for any pointers / ideas ! >>> >>> Kind Regards, >>> >>> Bart >>> >>> -- >>> imagination is more important than knowledge - Albert Einstein >>> Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere - Albert Einstein >>> Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. - Albert Einstein >>> The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination. - Albert Einstein >>> Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love. - Albert Einstein >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Nov. 30, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Method versioning in Pharo images

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Michael do you have this code somewhere? Because veronica will probably build something in that vein for her PhD on versioning. Stef On Nov 29, 2009, at 10:59 AM, Michael Rueger wrote: > Marcus Denker wrote: > >> What I would want to have is a server with all old code that than is >> queried by the image... > > Almost a year ago I did some work on a database, but then it got stuck > on the back burner. > What would be helpful in the future would be to have unique ids for > every method, class version etc. I think Craig did this in Spoon. > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Nov. 30, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] about sluggines on linux

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Nov 29, 2009, at 3:07 PM, Arturo Zambrano wrote: > Ok, I tried without compiz and both Pharo and X11 using 16 bpp: It works better (still slow if compared to VW). For example: when pressing right button on the world, it takes almost a second for the popup menu to show up. Is that normal? normally not > I didn't used it in another platform, I will try to give it a try under Windows to see if speed is the same. Thanks > > Is there a particular reason for Pharo not supporting 24bpp? time and money. > I think all nvidia drivers for linux works up to 24bpp, but this depth is not listed > in Pharo (using 16 bits looks a bit ugly) normally displayScreen only supports ... 8, 16 or 32 bits > > > regards. > art > > > > On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Arturo Zambrano <arturo(a)lifia.info.unlp.edu.ar> wrote: > Hi all, > Sorry, I was busy and I could not respond before. > > I found it really slow while using compiz at 24bpp, on top a of Gentoo 64 bit box (turion 2dual core 2Ghz). > > I will use it now without compiz and let you know if it behaves better. > > Do you have any performance test that I can run so that I have "numbers" to report? Because > the slowness could be a subjective impression as I usually run VisualWorks. > > regards > art > > > On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 6:41 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Arturo, > > On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 10:07 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Arturo told me that pharo was looking slow on his machine. > > I'm using Pharo on Ubuntu 9.10 and experience no problem. Could you > please try by turning off Compiz? > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them > popular by not having them." James Iry > >

Nov. 30, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] ocompletion usability

by George Herolyants

2009/11/30 Romain Robbes <romain.robbes(a)lu.unisi.ch>: > Hi George, > > in that case, I think pressing tab even if the list is empty should > work, unless I misunderstood. Oh, thanks for the answer and sorry :) I really missed that. I tried to use Ctrl+Tab to invoke ECompletion list (by analogy with Ctrl+Space that invokes OCompletion), but I didn't try just Tab :). Thanks! George

Nov. 30, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] ocompletion usability

by Romain Robbes

Good point. I also need Transcript once in a while, and didn't realize that was the reason it was missing! Thanks, Romain On Nov 30, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Stefan Marr wrote: > While someone is looking into usability, is there a way to also > complete for common tokens, or better global names? > > A very annoying example is the completion offered while trying to use > the Transcript, it always offers TranscriptTest, instead of > Transcript, which is probably the case because it is not take names of > globals into account. > > And since "printf"-style debugging seems to be the only way to debug > concurrent code, that is something I use very frequently... > > Best regards > Stefan > > > On 30 Nov 2009, at 09:56, Tudor Girba wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> OCompletion certainly improved the coding experience in Pharo. But, I >> have a couple of usability suggestions with OCompletion to make it >> better. It would be great if someone (Romain? :)) could act on them: >> >> 1. Right now, OCompletion is triggered both by Tab and by Enter. It >> should be only Tab. >> >> Here is the reason. When I have a cascade, I want to have the methods >> starting from the next line, like this: >> browser mondrian >> title: 'Something'; >> painting: [:view ... ] >> >> So, after I type browser mondrian, I naturally want to press Enter. >> However, there exists a method called mondrianAnnounce:, and when I >> press Enter it gets filled in. So, the intent of Enter should be >> similar to that of Space: just as a whitespace. Tab is a good choice >> for triggering the completion because we basically only use Tabs only >> in a new line where the completion does not apply. >> >> 2. When no completion is offered and I press tab, I do get some list. >> Why is this not offered by default? Is it because it is slower? Is it >> because it is the regular ECompletion and that is not useful? >> >> 3. The completion is triggered only when typing, but not when >> removing >> characters. I believe it would be better if it followed me all the >> time. >> >> 4. When I want to navigate through the offered list using the down >> arrow the look changes and the items become wider. In fact, the same >> appears when I force completion by pressing Tab, so this leads me to >> believe that the change in the look is given by the change from O >> to E >> completion. The look should remain the same. >> >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair, >> you will end up with a messy haircut." >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > Stefan Marr > Software Languages Lab > Vrije Universiteit Brussel > Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium > http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr > Phone: +32 2 629 3956 > Fax: +32 2 629 3525 > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Romain Robbes http://www.inf.unisi.ch/phd/robbes

Nov. 30, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] ocompletion usability

by Romain Robbes

On Nov 30, 2009, at 10:58 AM, George Herolyants wrote: > Hi all! > > 2009/11/30 Romain Robbes <romain.robbes(a)lu.unisi.ch>: > >>> 2. When no completion is offered and I press tab, I do get some >>> list. >>> Why is this not offered by default? Is it because it is slower? Is >>> it >>> because it is the regular ECompletion and that is not useful? >> >> It is the regular ECompletion, which is slower, and less useful. > > OCompletion is great, but I think it will be far better if the regular > ECompletion list appears automatically in case OCompletion can't offer > any suggestions. It's very useful to see ECompletion list in case > you've just forgotten the right method name or class name. But now I > forced to press backspace to return to the point at which OCompletion > still can give suggestions, press down arrow just to keep ECompletion > window opened and then continue to type. Hi George, in that case, I think pressing tab even if the list is empty should work, unless I misunderstood. Romain > > Cheers, > George > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Romain Robbes http://www.inf.unisi.ch/phd/robbes

Nov. 30, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] ocompletion usability

by George Herolyants

Hi all! 2009/11/30 Romain Robbes <romain.robbes(a)lu.unisi.ch>: >> 2. When no completion is offered and I press tab, I do get some list. >> Why is this not offered by default? Is it because it is slower? Is it >> because it is the regular ECompletion and that is not useful? > > It is the regular ECompletion, which is slower, and less useful. OCompletion is great, but I think it will be far better if the regular ECompletion list appears automatically in case OCompletion can't offer any suggestions. It's very useful to see ECompletion list in case you've just forgotten the right method name or class name. But now I forced to press backspace to return to the point at which OCompletion still can give suggestions, press down arrow just to keep ECompletion window opened and then continue to type. Cheers, George

Nov. 30, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] ocompletion usability

by Stefan Marr

While someone is looking into usability, is there a way to also complete for common tokens, or better global names? A very annoying example is the completion offered while trying to use the Transcript, it always offers TranscriptTest, instead of Transcript, which is probably the case because it is not take names of globals into account. And since "printf"-style debugging seems to be the only way to debug concurrent code, that is something I use very frequently... Best regards Stefan On 30 Nov 2009, at 09:56, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > OCompletion certainly improved the coding experience in Pharo. But, I > have a couple of usability suggestions with OCompletion to make it > better. It would be great if someone (Romain? :)) could act on them: > > 1. Right now, OCompletion is triggered both by Tab and by Enter. It > should be only Tab. > > Here is the reason. When I have a cascade, I want to have the methods > starting from the next line, like this: > browser mondrian > title: 'Something'; > painting: [:view ... ] > > So, after I type browser mondrian, I naturally want to press Enter. > However, there exists a method called mondrianAnnounce:, and when I > press Enter it gets filled in. So, the intent of Enter should be > similar to that of Space: just as a whitespace. Tab is a good choice > for triggering the completion because we basically only use Tabs only > in a new line where the completion does not apply. > > 2. When no completion is offered and I press tab, I do get some list. > Why is this not offered by default? Is it because it is slower? Is it > because it is the regular ECompletion and that is not useful? > > 3. The completion is triggered only when typing, but not when removing > characters. I believe it would be better if it followed me all the > time. > > 4. When I want to navigate through the offered list using the down > arrow the look changes and the items become wider. In fact, the same > appears when I force completion by pressing Tab, so this leads me to > believe that the change in the look is given by the change from O to E > completion. The look should remain the same. > > > Cheers, > Doru > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair, > you will end up with a messy haircut." > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Stefan Marr Software Languages Lab Vrije Universiteit Brussel Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr Phone: +32 2 629 3956 Fax: +32 2 629 3525

Nov. 30, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] ocompletion usability

by Romain Robbes

Hi Doru, On Nov 30, 2009, at 9:56 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > OCompletion certainly improved the coding experience in Pharo. But, I > have a couple of usability suggestions with OCompletion to make it > better. It would be great if someone (Romain? :)) could act on them: > > 1. Right now, OCompletion is triggered both by Tab and by Enter. It > should be only Tab. > > Here is the reason. When I have a cascade, I want to have the methods > starting from the next line, like this: > browser mondrian > title: 'Something'; > painting: [:view ... ] > > So, after I type browser mondrian, I naturally want to press Enter. > However, there exists a method called mondrianAnnounce:, and when I > press Enter it gets filled in. So, the intent of Enter should be > similar to that of Space: just as a whitespace. Tab is a good choice > for triggering the completion because we basically only use Tabs only > in a new line where the completion does not apply. > Well, the completion with enter was requested by a few people, so we should reach a consensus. > 2. When no completion is offered and I press tab, I do get some list. > Why is this not offered by default? Is it because it is slower? Is it > because it is the regular ECompletion and that is not useful? It is the regular ECompletion, which is slower, and less useful. > > 3. The completion is triggered only when typing, but not when removing > characters. I believe it would be better if it followed me all the > time. > Good point! > 4. When I want to navigate through the offered list using the down > arrow the look changes and the items become wider. In fact, the same > appears when I force completion by pressing Tab, so this leads me to > believe that the change in the look is given by the change from O to E > completion. The look should remain the same. I thought about it and concluded that it may be good to differentiate them. As for the tab/enter issue, different people think differently. That's why we should reach a consensus on these two issues, so that I can decide whether I should remove these two features :-). Cheers, Romain > > > Cheers, > Doru > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair, > you will end up with a messy haircut." > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Romain Robbes http://www.inf.unisi.ch/phd/robbes

Nov. 30, 2009

[Pharo-project] ocompletion usability

by Tudor Girba

Hi, OCompletion certainly improved the coding experience in Pharo. But, I have a couple of usability suggestions with OCompletion to make it better. It would be great if someone (Romain? :)) could act on them: 1. Right now, OCompletion is triggered both by Tab and by Enter. It should be only Tab. Here is the reason. When I have a cascade, I want to have the methods starting from the next line, like this: browser mondrian title: 'Something'; painting: [:view ... ] So, after I type browser mondrian, I naturally want to press Enter. However, there exists a method called mondrianAnnounce:, and when I press Enter it gets filled in. So, the intent of Enter should be similar to that of Space: just as a whitespace. Tab is a good choice for triggering the completion because we basically only use Tabs only in a new line where the completion does not apply. 2. When no completion is offered and I press tab, I do get some list. Why is this not offered by default? Is it because it is slower? Is it because it is the regular ECompletion and that is not useful? 3. The completion is triggered only when typing, but not when removing characters. I believe it would be better if it followed me all the time. 4. When I want to navigate through the offered list using the down arrow the look changes and the items become wider. In fact, the same appears when I force completion by pressing Tab, so this leads me to believe that the change in the look is given by the change from O to E completion. The look should remain the same. Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com "If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair, you will end up with a messy haircut."

Nov. 30, 2009