September 2008 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Thinking about Pharo distribution

by Adrian Lienhard

here my 2 cents... On Sep 15, 2008, at 17:49 , Marcus Denker wrote: > I think it is *extremely* important to only have one download. I agree that we should make it clear what to start with (obviously the dev distribution). The list of packages seems ok to me, except for Regex. > Having pharo nicely bug-free and with green tests is useless if > every users > of it then uses another image. In addition, I don't want a system > where we > need to explain "which image to use?". But this does not exclude the possibility to have instructions on the web page that explain how to use Pharo in a production setting, right? On this page we would of course point to the download of the core image (among other stuff like GC parameter settings, preferences). Adrian

Sept. 15, 2008

[Pharo-project] Re: Re: Fonts

by Andrew Tween

"StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote in message news:C8F15727-4F27-4293-ACAF-78046E476B76@inria.fr... > You can send large file we just will let them pass. > > stef Ok. Attached is the screenshot > > On Sep 15, 2008, at 7:51 PM, Andrew Tween wrote: > >> Hi Gary, >> >> "Gary Chambers" <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com> >> wrote >> in message news:82AB7DFBA0D84C53A1D98B941BA44EF3@GuruVista... >>> Specifically the "Alt-k" (opt for Mac users :-) ) keyboard option for >>> ParagraphEditor... >>> With FreeType and many fonts installed the menu is unmanageable (can't >>> even get to the "more" option)... >> >> If you install the latest version of FreeTypePlus - >> http://www.squeaksource.com/FreeTypePlus/FreeType-tween.435.mcz >> then you will see that I have created a basic font picker dialog >> (screenshot too big to attach without moderator approval). >> >> This uses some of the Polymorph modal dialog code, which I extracted >> into a >> separate package, so that it works even if Polymorph is not installed... >> see - >> http://www.squeaksource.com/FreeTypePlus/PinesoftEnhancementsForFreetype-tw… >> >> I no longer install all the available fonts as TextStyles - so your >> existing >> FontPicker is unlikely to work with the latest FreeTypePlus. I am happy >> to >> work with you to get it working again; we will need to discuss what is >> the >> best way to do this. >> >> Storing TextStyles in the TextConstants dictionary seemed like an >> accident >> waiting to happen. TextConstants contains the carriage return character >> under key #CR , alongside the Atlanta TextStyle under key #Atlanta . >> Exactly what would happen if a user's computer happened to contain a >> font >> called 'CR' or 'Centered' or 'EndOfRun' is anyone's guess :) >> >> However, not putting all the fonts into TextConstants as TextStyles does >> mean that some backwards compatibility has been lost. >> >> Cheers, >> Andy >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> Perhaps it would be good to extend UIManager with an entry-point for >>> choosing a font, passing off to the Polymorph font selector, in our >>> case. >>> >>> Method in question: ParagraphEditor>>changeStyle. >>> >>> Regards, Gary. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>

Sept. 15, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Re: Fonts

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

You can send large file we just will let them pass. stef On Sep 15, 2008, at 7:51 PM, Andrew Tween wrote: > Hi Gary, > > "Gary Chambers" <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com> wrote > in message news:82AB7DFBA0D84C53A1D98B941BA44EF3@GuruVista... >> Specifically the "Alt-k" (opt for Mac users :-) ) keyboard option >> for ParagraphEditor... >> With FreeType and many fonts installed the menu is unmanageable >> (can't even get to the "more" option)... > > If you install the latest version of FreeTypePlus - > http://www.squeaksource.com/FreeTypePlus/FreeType-tween.435.mcz > then you will see that I have created a basic font picker dialog > (screenshot too big to attach without moderator approval). > > This uses some of the Polymorph modal dialog code, which I extracted > into a > separate package, so that it works even if Polymorph is not > installed... > see - > http://www.squeaksource.com/FreeTypePlus/PinesoftEnhancementsForFreetype-tw… > > I no longer install all the available fonts as TextStyles - so your > existing > FontPicker is unlikely to work with the latest FreeTypePlus. I am > happy to > work with you to get it working again; we will need to discuss what > is the > best way to do this. > > Storing TextStyles in the TextConstants dictionary seemed like an > accident > waiting to happen. TextConstants contains the carriage return > character > under key #CR , alongside the Atlanta TextStyle under key #Atlanta . > Exactly what would happen if a user's computer happened to contain a > font > called 'CR' or 'Centered' or 'EndOfRun' is anyone's guess :) > > However, not putting all the fonts into TextConstants as TextStyles > does > mean that some backwards compatibility has been lost. > > Cheers, > Andy > > > > > >> >> Perhaps it would be good to extend UIManager with an entry-point >> for choosing a font, passing off to the Polymorph font selector, in >> our case. >> >> Method in question: ParagraphEditor>>changeStyle. >> >> Regards, Gary. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 15, 2008

[Pharo-project] Re: Fonts

by Andrew Tween

Hi Gary, "Gary Chambers" <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com> wrote in message news:82AB7DFBA0D84C53A1D98B941BA44EF3@GuruVista... > Specifically the "Alt-k" (opt for Mac users :-) ) keyboard option for > ParagraphEditor... > With FreeType and many fonts installed the menu is unmanageable (can't > even get to the "more" option)... If you install the latest version of FreeTypePlus - http://www.squeaksource.com/FreeTypePlus/FreeType-tween.435.mcz then you will see that I have created a basic font picker dialog (screenshot too big to attach without moderator approval). This uses some of the Polymorph modal dialog code, which I extracted into a separate package, so that it works even if Polymorph is not installed... see - http://www.squeaksource.com/FreeTypePlus/PinesoftEnhancementsForFreetype-tw… I no longer install all the available fonts as TextStyles - so your existing FontPicker is unlikely to work with the latest FreeTypePlus. I am happy to work with you to get it working again; we will need to discuss what is the best way to do this. Storing TextStyles in the TextConstants dictionary seemed like an accident waiting to happen. TextConstants contains the carriage return character under key #CR , alongside the Atlanta TextStyle under key #Atlanta . Exactly what would happen if a user's computer happened to contain a font called 'CR' or 'Centered' or 'EndOfRun' is anyone's guess :) However, not putting all the fonts into TextConstants as TextStyles does mean that some backwards compatibility has been lost. Cheers, Andy > > Perhaps it would be good to extend UIManager with an entry-point for > choosing a font, passing off to the Polymorph font selector, in our case. > > Method in question: ParagraphEditor>>changeStyle. > > Regards, Gary.

Sept. 15, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Fonts

by Gary Chambers

Though that only applies to MVC, (essentiallly) duplicated code exists in TextMorphEditor and TextPropertiesMorph... go figure! Gary. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Chambers" <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com> To: "An open mailing list to discuss any topics related to anopen-sourceSmalltalk" <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 5:12 PM Subject: [Pharo-project] Fonts > Specifically the "Alt-k" (opt for Mac users :-) ) keyboard option for > ParagraphEditor... > With FreeType and many fonts installed the menu is unmanageable (can't > even get to the "more" option)... > > Perhaps it would be good to extend UIManager with an entry-point for > choosing a font, passing off to the Polymorph font selector, in our case. > > Method in question: ParagraphEditor>>changeStyle. > > Regards, Gary. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 15, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Thinking about Pharo distribution

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>> I think it is *extremely* important to only have one download. > > hmm, yes and no. > Wasn't one of the longer term goals of Pharo to provide a small as > possible core image on which everything else can be bootstrapped? Yes it is! But not at the price to say that pharo is a subset. I think that modularity is one aspect and we should be able to have ***packages*** that coexist and are well designed to coexist. What marcus implies is that well factored code and tested should be modular and the infrastructure should support the modular definition of the system. So changes like better support in terms of notification, no etoy plague, no bookMorph plague should help making the system more manageable. May be at the end we will need a module system. Stef

Sept. 15, 2008

[Pharo-project] Fonts

by Gary Chambers

Specifically the "Alt-k" (opt for Mac users :-) ) keyboard option for ParagraphEditor... With FreeType and many fonts installed the menu is unmanageable (can't even get to the "more" option)... Perhaps it would be good to extend UIManager with an entry-point for choosing a font, passing off to the Polymorph font selector, in our case. Method in question: ParagraphEditor>>changeStyle. Regards, Gary.

Sept. 15, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Thinking about Pharo distribution

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> > These are all good points. One of my biggest concerns is code > compatibility. I used enhanced images and developed web applications. > Often I used a method that came with the enhancements and that > failed when I tried to deploy them in my base image. Then I stopped > using the enhancement images and stuck to the basic ones. Is there a > good way to solve this? Integration: ie looking at the extensions made by the packages and identify the ones that should be moved in the core and not. This is unavoidable. Stef

Sept. 15, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Thinking about Pharo distribution

by Michael Rueger

Marcus Denker wrote: > I think it is *extremely* important to only have one download. hmm, yes and no. Wasn't one of the longer term goals of Pharo to provide a small as possible core image on which everything else can be bootstrapped? Michael

Sept. 15, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Thinking about Pharo distribution

by Norbert Hartl

On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 17:49 +0200, Marcus Denker wrote: > On 15.09.2008, at 17:36, Michael Rueger wrote: > > > Damien Cassou wrote: > >> Hi, > >> I've just started writing a wiki page which details the packages we > >> plan to install in all Pharo distributions. In the Universe, the > > > > All or developer? > > > > I think it is *extremely* important to only have one download. > > Having pharo nicely bug-free and with green tests is useless if every > users > of it then uses another image. In addition, I don't want a system > where we > need to explain "which image to use?". > > On Pharo-Project, there will be *one* download, and it will be a one- > click image. > > >> meta-package 'Pharo packages' permit easy installation of these > >> packages. The wiki page is at: > >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Packages. > > > > The list is way to long, I don't use any of these packages and I > > wouldn't want to see them in a "base" image. > > It's not that bad... shout, e-completion, refactoring-engine and > OmniBrowser. The Regex will be in Pharo anyway > (it's one of the big mistakes of Smalltalk to not bring a standard > regexp, the result are many hard to understand > methods parsing strings in the base system... and no standard for > developers) > > If you look at younger people, e.g the students, they are used to > Eclipse. Refactoring, code completion and > syntax highlighting are for them not optional. For them this is what > an IDE does, there is no question about that. > > I think not providing that would be the wrong way to go. > > As for size: Most code in Sqeueak are abandoned experiments that > nobody uses, if we clean up, we have a lot of > space to grow for stuff that actually is useful. These are all good points. One of my biggest concerns is code compatibility. I used enhanced images and developed web applications. Often I used a method that came with the enhancements and that failed when I tried to deploy them in my base image. Then I stopped using the enhancement images and stuck to the basic ones. Is there a good way to solve this? Norbert

Sept. 15, 2008