September 2008 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Thinking about Pharo distribution

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I agree. Now we can also late bound core boundary. :) I really believe that we should learn. If tomorrow somebody come up with a really nice integration of the package then it can be really core. Stef On Sep 16, 2008, at 9:02 AM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > Stef, maybe you misunderstood me. I don't argue against putting it > into core... > But I think it does not make a lot of sense in dev. Only if it is in > core, methods like #match: can use it. > > Adrian > > > On Sep 16, 2008, at 08:54 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> No this is something else. >> Look at all the crap in match: and other. I do not think that regex >> is so large that it is a problem. >> There are so much other totally ***useless** things in the image >> that something useful would be really good. >> What we can do: is give it a try we do not have to be perfect the >> first time. >> Having a vision and path to achieve it should not hamper us to try >> and learn. Look at the use of MC :) >> >> Stef >> >> >>> >>> On Sep 16, 2008, at 07:13 , Damien Cassou wrote: >>> >>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 9:45 PM, Adrian Lienhard >>>> <adi(a)netstyle.ch> wrote: >>>>> I agree that we should make it clear what to start with >>>>> (obviously the dev >>>>> distribution). >>>>> The list of packages seems ok to me, except for Regex. >>>> >>>> What is your problem with Regex? >>> >>> I think it should either be in core (as Marcus argues) or in no >>> distro. The reason is that this is not a development tool but will >>> be used as a library. Then if you deploy using the core distro, >>> you have to load it anyway. And if we start to add Regex, why not >>> also adding an XML parser? and package XYZ? So we end up >>> accumulating libraries that blow up the image even if they are >>> used only by few people. I'd like to control myself, which >>> packages to make part of the application. >>> >>> Adrian >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 16, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Thinking about Pharo distribution

by Adrian Lienhard

Stef, maybe you misunderstood me. I don't argue against putting it into core... But I think it does not make a lot of sense in dev. Only if it is in core, methods like #match: can use it. Adrian On Sep 16, 2008, at 08:54 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > No this is something else. > Look at all the crap in match: and other. I do not think that regex > is so large that it is a problem. > There are so much other totally ***useless** things in the image > that something useful would be really good. > What we can do: is give it a try we do not have to be perfect the > first time. > Having a vision and path to achieve it should not hamper us to try > and learn. Look at the use of MC :) > > Stef > > >> >> On Sep 16, 2008, at 07:13 , Damien Cassou wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 9:45 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> >>> wrote: >>>> I agree that we should make it clear what to start with >>>> (obviously the dev >>>> distribution). >>>> The list of packages seems ok to me, except for Regex. >>> >>> What is your problem with Regex? >> >> I think it should either be in core (as Marcus argues) or in no >> distro. The reason is that this is not a development tool but will >> be used as a library. Then if you deploy using the core distro, you >> have to load it anyway. And if we start to add Regex, why not also >> adding an XML parser? and package XYZ? So we end up accumulating >> libraries that blow up the image even if they are used only by few >> people. I'd like to control myself, which packages to make part of >> the application. >> >> Adrian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 16, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] update 10072

by Marcus Denker

On 16.09.2008, at 08:51, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > This is strange that ChangesOrganizer got removed. > May be we should rollback 10072 > No, that would be too much work to recreate as opposed to see what was removed. Maybe I just harvested a wrong test... > BTW alex is working on a test server with laffont and this will help > us a lot. > > Stef > > On Sep 15, 2008, at 9:59 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > >> I run the tests in 10072. We currently have 5 failures and a hand >> full of errors. The errors come from the class ChangesOrganizer >> being removed but there are references to it in ChangeHooksTest. >> >> Two MonthTest tests fail because the following method now looks like: >> Month>>index >> | t | >> t := 5 >> >> which obviously was an inadvertent change ;) >> >> Adrian >> >> >> On Sep 15, 2008, at 14:54 , Marcus Denker wrote: >> >>> >>> On 15.09.2008, at 12:42, Damien Cassou wrote: >>> >>>> Would be cool to create a release now. >>>> >>> >>> yes, I will make a zip today (evening). besides, I want to do a >>> one-cklick image based >>> on the seaside one later this week. >>> >>> Marcus >>> >>> >>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Marcus Denker <denker(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>> > wrote: >>>>> update10072 >>>>> ----------- >>>>> >>>>> -> Issue 95: 7149 ChangeHooksTest-tearDown-M6702-rej >>>>> -> Issue 174: XMLSupport can't be loaded into latest Pharo image >>>>> -> Issue 52: 7102 ObjectPerformOrSendToFix (M1666) >>>>> -> Issue 106: 7090 DSAunimplementedCleanup >>>>> -> Issue 77: 7127 RemoveMappedCollection >>>>> -> More ifNil: refactorings >>>>> -> replace all occurrances of "isNil not" with "notNil" >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>>> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>> project >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Damien Cassou >>>> Peter von der AhÃ©: Â«I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good >>>> luckÂ». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu) >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> -- >>> Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch >>> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker

Sept. 16, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Thinking about Pharo distribution

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

No this is something else. Look at all the crap in match: and other. I do not think that regex is so large that it is a problem. There are so much other totally ***useless** things in the image that something useful would be really good. What we can do: is give it a try we do not have to be perfect the first time. Having a vision and path to achieve it should not hamper us to try and learn. Look at the use of MC :) Stef > > On Sep 16, 2008, at 07:13 , Damien Cassou wrote: > >> On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 9:45 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> >> wrote: >>> I agree that we should make it clear what to start with (obviously >>> the dev >>> distribution). >>> The list of packages seems ok to me, except for Regex. >> >> What is your problem with Regex? > > I think it should either be in core (as Marcus argues) or in no > distro. The reason is that this is not a development tool but will > be used as a library. Then if you deploy using the core distro, you > have to load it anyway. And if we start to add Regex, why not also > adding an XML parser? and package XYZ? So we end up accumulating > libraries that blow up the image even if they are used only by few > people. I'd like to control myself, which packages to make part of > the application. > > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 16, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] update 10072

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

This is strange that ChangesOrganizer got removed. May be we should rollback 10072 BTW alex is working on a test server with laffont and this will help us a lot. Stef On Sep 15, 2008, at 9:59 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > I run the tests in 10072. We currently have 5 failures and a hand > full of errors. The errors come from the class ChangesOrganizer > being removed but there are references to it in ChangeHooksTest. > > Two MonthTest tests fail because the following method now looks like: > Month>>index > | t | > t := 5 > > which obviously was an inadvertent change ;) > > Adrian > > > On Sep 15, 2008, at 14:54 , Marcus Denker wrote: > >> >> On 15.09.2008, at 12:42, Damien Cassou wrote: >> >>> Would be cool to create a release now. >>> >> >> yes, I will make a zip today (evening). besides, I want to do a one- >> cklick image based >> on the seaside one later this week. >> >> Marcus >> >> >>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Marcus Denker >>> <denker(a)iam.unibe.ch> wrote: >>>> update10072 >>>> ----------- >>>> >>>> -> Issue 95: 7149 ChangeHooksTest-tearDown-M6702-rej >>>> -> Issue 174: XMLSupport can't be loaded into latest Pharo image >>>> -> Issue 52: 7102 ObjectPerformOrSendToFix (M1666) >>>> -> Issue 106: 7090 DSAunimplementedCleanup >>>> -> Issue 77: 7127 RemoveMappedCollection >>>> -> More ifNil: refactorings >>>> -> replace all occurrances of "isNil not" with "notNil" >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch >>>> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Damien Cassou >>> Peter von der AhÃ©: Â«I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good >>> luckÂ». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> -- >> Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch >> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 16, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Thinking about Pharo distribution

by Adrian Lienhard

On Sep 16, 2008, at 07:13 , Damien Cassou wrote: > On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 9:45 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> > wrote: >> I agree that we should make it clear what to start with (obviously >> the dev >> distribution). >> The list of packages seems ok to me, except for Regex. > > What is your problem with Regex? I think it should either be in core (as Marcus argues) or in no distro. The reason is that this is not a development tool but will be used as a library. Then if you deploy using the core distro, you have to load it anyway. And if we start to add Regex, why not also adding an XML parser? and package XYZ? So we end up accumulating libraries that blow up the image even if they are used only by few people. I'd like to control myself, which packages to make part of the application. Adrian

Sept. 16, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Thinking about Pharo distribution

by Michael Rueger

Damien Cassou wrote: > On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 9:45 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> wrote: >> I agree that we should make it clear what to start with (obviously the dev >> distribution). >> The list of packages seems ok to me, except for Regex. > > What is your problem with Regex? See, that was exactly my point ;-) People prefer different sets of stuff in their image. What Pharo could deliver, would be a small core image, then a couple of approved/tested packages or package combinations that are easy to load into the core. And as a service to new developers we could offer the full blown developer image. One thing that makes Squeak difficult, even for me, is that you never have a place to go to when you want an image and a set of packages that are known to work. Usually you end up having to ask on the mailing list which combination of packages and patches work. Like in the old Linux days before Ubuntu. Btw, Eclipse does the same thing, you have the Eclipse core, add on language packages but also pre-packaged, complete environments. Michael

Sept. 16, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Thinking about Pharo distribution

by Damien Cassou

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 9:45 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> wrote: > I agree that we should make it clear what to start with (obviously the dev > distribution). > The list of packages seems ok to me, except for Regex. What is your problem with Regex? -- Damien Cassou Peter von der AhÃ©: Â«I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good luckÂ». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu)

Sept. 16, 2008

[Pharo-project] [Enh] Monticello package renaming

by Noury Bouraqadi

Hi, I published a dedicated package for MC package renaming on pharo inbox. I also added to the issue tracker (issue 175). http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=175 Noury ------------------------------------------------------------------ Dr. Noury Bouraqadi - Enseignant/Chercheur Responsable de l'enseignement de l'informatique ARMINES - Ecole des Mines de Douai - Dept. I.A. http://vst.ensm-douai.fr/noury European Smalltalk Users Group Board http://www.esug.org ------------------------------------------------------------------

Sept. 15, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] update 10072

by Adrian Lienhard

I run the tests in 10072. We currently have 5 failures and a hand full of errors. The errors come from the class ChangesOrganizer being removed but there are references to it in ChangeHooksTest. Two MonthTest tests fail because the following method now looks like: Month>>index | t | t := 5 which obviously was an inadvertent change ;) Adrian On Sep 15, 2008, at 14:54 , Marcus Denker wrote: > > On 15.09.2008, at 12:42, Damien Cassou wrote: > >> Would be cool to create a release now. >> > > yes, I will make a zip today (evening). besides, I want to do a one- > cklick image based > on the seaside one later this week. > > Marcus > > >> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Marcus Denker >> <denker(a)iam.unibe.ch> wrote: >>> update10072 >>> ----------- >>> >>> -> Issue 95: 7149 ChangeHooksTest-tearDown-M6702-rej >>> -> Issue 174: XMLSupport can't be loaded into latest Pharo image >>> -> Issue 52: 7102 ObjectPerformOrSendToFix (M1666) >>> -> Issue 106: 7090 DSAunimplementedCleanup >>> -> Issue 77: 7127 RemoveMappedCollection >>> -> More ifNil: refactorings >>> -> replace all occurrances of "isNil not" with "notNil" >>> >>> -- >>> Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch >>> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Damien Cassou >> Peter von der AhÃ©: Â«I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good >> luckÂ». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu) >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch > http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 15, 2008