September 2008 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] First pharo-dev with limited package set

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

for me the color is really nice because it gives iformation when I type a wrong selector. This is something that you get for free boxes in red means it does not exist box in grey means there is a boxSomething selector Stef On Sep 23, 2008, at 2:23 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > For sake of simplicity I would prefer to have just one menu item. I > would put just the workspace without highlighting. Like Bill, I > don't need my notes or code snippets in the workspace colorized. > > Which version of the workspace do people use most often? > > Adrian > > > On Sep 23, 2008, at 13:58 , Damien Cassou wrote: > >> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 11:42 AM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> >> wrote: >>> Question: Does this include Universes? It's not listed below but I >>> see the >>> menu item (which does not work because of a deprecation warning). >>> I think we >>> need Universes mainly because Seaside will be packaged with >>> Universes soon, >>> and being able to easily load Seaside is a key requirement for >>> Pharo. >> >> >> Universes and Installer are present. They are not listed because I >> installed them by hand and not by using Universe. I will fix it for >> the next version. >> >>> Another thing we need to look at (and I planned to do this) is the >>> open >>> menu. With all the additional packages in the dev version its even >>> worse >>> than before. For example there are 3(!) items for opening a >>> workspace >> >> I think we need to keep two entries. Something like 'Smalltalk >> workspace' and 'Text workspace'. What do you think? >> >> -- >> Damien Cassou >> Peter von der AhÃ©: Â«I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good >> luckÂ». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu) >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 23, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] On Icons

by David RÃ¶thlisberger

>> So we need an icon with a (green) up arrow (for super send) and a >> (yellow) triangle pointing down (for overriddes). Who could draw >> something like that? ;)) > > I can :) > I will try. Great! >>>>> - The same is for abstract method icon. When browsing the >>>>> protocol/interface I don't need to know that. I am more interested if >>>>> any of the subclasses override it. >>>> >>>> ok, I agree here. >>> I disagree there. >>> Browse stream and collection. >> >> I meant that the icon should show whether the abstract method is >> overridden or not. What about keeping the cyan icon for abstract >> methods, but as a triangle pointing south when the method is >> overridden and as a square when it's not? > or nothing when it is not? no, the case when it's not overridden is quite interesting as this might be a hint for a problem (not needed abstract method or missing override, etc.) > Try to come up with a nice model. > Then after we should see how we can sell it also as a paper. ok, alright. David

Sept. 23, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] First pharo-dev with limited package set

by Norbert Hartl

On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 14:23 +0200, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > For sake of simplicity I would prefer to have just one menu item. I > would put just the workspace without highlighting. Like Bill, I don't > need my notes or code snippets in the workspace colorized. > > Which version of the workspace do people use most often? > I use Shout not very often but every time I meet the colored workspace it annoys me :) The coloring in the code pane I like. It gives you back a little of this eclipse feeling. Wise chosen colours! :) my 2... Norbert > Adrian > > > On Sep 23, 2008, at 13:58 , Damien Cassou wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 11:42 AM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> > > wrote: > >> Question: Does this include Universes? It's not listed below but I > >> see the > >> menu item (which does not work because of a deprecation warning). I > >> think we > >> need Universes mainly because Seaside will be packaged with > >> Universes soon, > >> and being able to easily load Seaside is a key requirement for Pharo. > > > > > > Universes and Installer are present. They are not listed because I > > installed them by hand and not by using Universe. I will fix it for > > the next version. > > > >> Another thing we need to look at (and I planned to do this) is the > >> open > >> menu. With all the additional packages in the dev version its even > >> worse > >> than before. For example there are 3(!) items for opening a workspace > > > > I think we need to keep two entries. Something like 'Smalltalk > > workspace' and 'Text workspace'. What do you think? > > > > -- > > Damien Cassou > > Peter von der AhÃ©: Â«I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good > > luckÂ». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu) > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 23, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] First pharo-dev with limited package set

by Tudor Girba

Hi, I think the one with color highlighting is the useful one for two reasons: - I would like to discourage people to put text/code that has no structure at all in the workspace. I would say that most of the highlighting problems in the workspace come from not putting a dot at the end of the line. This is a rather small cost to pay for having the colors working. - You can always disable the highlighting for a piece of text by putting it in a comment. Cheers, Doru On Sep 23, 2008, at 2:23 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > For sake of simplicity I would prefer to have just one menu item. I > would put just the workspace without highlighting. Like Bill, I > don't need my notes or code snippets in the workspace colorized. > > Which version of the workspace do people use most often? > > Adrian > > On Sep 23, 2008, at 13:58 , Damien Cassou wrote: > >> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 11:42 AM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> >> wrote: >>> Question: Does this include Universes? It's not listed below but I >>> see the >>> menu item (which does not work because of a deprecation warning). >>> I think we >>> need Universes mainly because Seaside will be packaged with >>> Universes soon, >>> and being able to easily load Seaside is a key requirement for >>> Pharo. >> >> >> Universes and Installer are present. They are not listed because I >> installed them by hand and not by using Universe. I will fix it for >> the next version. >> >>> Another thing we need to look at (and I planned to do this) is the >>> open >>> menu. With all the additional packages in the dev version its even >>> worse >>> than before. For example there are 3(!) items for opening a >>> workspace >> >> I think we need to keep two entries. Something like 'Smalltalk >> workspace' and 'Text workspace'. What do you think? >> >> -- >> Damien Cassou >> Peter von der AhÃ©: Â«I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good >> luckÂ». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu) >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 23, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Fonts related from OLPC / rome also

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

to add more data related to fonts. http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A--squeak-dev---ANN--3.10-final-is-out-p16182045.… http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6523 http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6336 http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6520 (sounds like a hack) On Sep 23, 2008, at 2:05 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > I started to go over > > http://tinlizzie.org/updates/etoys/updates > > to see if some of the fixes of yoshiki for unicode and others were > there. > > Here is a list of names that may be should be further investigated > - 1622fontFix-sw.cs > - 1626FontNameGlitch-y.. > - 1711UTF8Clipboard.cs > - 1712utf8toSqueakFix-. > - 1713UnicodeInput1-yo.cs > - 1714UnicodeInput2-yo.cs > - 1715utf8toSqueakFix2..> > - 1725SystemFont-yo.cs > - 1726SystemFont2-yo.cs > - 1731UpdBtnFontFix-KR.cs > - 1813macPasteUTF8-bf.cs > - 1815latin1Chars-yo.cs > - 1821UnicodeFntLoadin..> > - 1826TTCFontSetRework..> > - 1826TTCFontSetRework..> > - 1827sketchColor-sw.cs > - 1832TTCFontSetFix-yo.cs > -1834FontRegFix-yo.cs > - 1862TTCFontObjStream..> > - 1869latin1PathEncodi..> > - 1884TTObjForStream-y.. > - 1907crlfFix-bf.cs > - 1918UTF8InputFix-ar.cs > - 1925unixLatin1Input-..> > - 1935unicodeFallback-. > - 2143macEnc-bf.cs > > > about the rome canvas > > 1932romepango-base.cs > 1933romepango.cs > 1934romepango2-yo.cs 24 > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 23, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] First pharo-dev with limited package set

by Adrian Lienhard

For sake of simplicity I would prefer to have just one menu item. I would put just the workspace without highlighting. Like Bill, I don't need my notes or code snippets in the workspace colorized. Which version of the workspace do people use most often? Adrian On Sep 23, 2008, at 13:58 , Damien Cassou wrote: > On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 11:42 AM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> > wrote: >> Question: Does this include Universes? It's not listed below but I >> see the >> menu item (which does not work because of a deprecation warning). I >> think we >> need Universes mainly because Seaside will be packaged with >> Universes soon, >> and being able to easily load Seaside is a key requirement for Pharo. > > > Universes and Installer are present. They are not listed because I > installed them by hand and not by using Universe. I will fix it for > the next version. > >> Another thing we need to look at (and I planned to do this) is the >> open >> menu. With all the additional packages in the dev version its even >> worse >> than before. For example there are 3(!) items for opening a workspace > > I think we need to keep two entries. Something like 'Smalltalk > workspace' and 'Text workspace'. What do you think? > > -- > Damien Cassou > Peter von der AhÃ©: Â«I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good > luckÂ». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu) > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 23, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] First pharo-dev with limited package set

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Sep 23, 2008, at 1:58 PM, Damien Cassou wrote: > On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 11:42 AM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> > wrote: >> Question: Does this include Universes? It's not listed below but I >> see the >> menu item (which does not work because of a deprecation warning). I >> think we >> need Universes mainly because Seaside will be packaged with >> Universes soon, >> and being able to easily load Seaside is a key requirement for Pharo. > > > Universes and Installer are present. They are not listed because I > installed them by hand and not by using Universe. I will fix it for > the next version. > >> Another thing we need to look at (and I planned to do this) is the >> open >> menu. With all the additional packages in the dev version its even >> worse >> than before. For example there are 3(!) items for opening a workspace > > I think we need to keep two entries. Something like 'Smalltalk > workspace' and 'Text workspace'. What do you think? uh? does not work for me no idea what is a Smalltalk workspace. Let us kill one Shout workspace is always -> Workspace I would put the coloring workspace by default and if people do not like it they fix it. > > > -- > Damien Cassou > Peter von der AhÃ©: Â«I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good > luckÂ». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu) > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 23, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] On Icons

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Sep 23, 2008, at 11:27 AM, David RÃ¶thlisberger wrote: > >> David I would love to know when browsing a class if the method >> comes from a trait :) > > Right now you get these methods in italic (Juraj did it like that). > If we change methods to be in italic when they are extension > methods, then we get a conflict here. Do you have the tree structure now? > > We could add an icon to denote trait methods. > > Would make sense to have icons for content or structure related > stuff and different labels (italic, red, etc.) for package/extension > related things. Probably. Or we should have a set of icon that can be compose. Stef

Sept. 23, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] On Icons

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> >>> What if we show the super icon only if there's no sub- >>> implementation and otherwise the sub-implementation icon? >> no this is terrible because we cannot rely on the consistency of >> the information >>> Or one containing both information, but I guess you won't like >>> that. ;) >> I think that this is what we should have > > So we need an icon with a (green) up arrow (for super send) and a > (yellow) triangle pointing down (for overriddes). Who could draw > something like that? ;)) I can :) I will try. now I think that you should try also with inkscape. The icons do not have to look good for now. We should get them right. After somebody with talent can relook them. > > >>>> - The same is for abstract method icon. When browsing the >>>> protocol/interface I don't need to know that. I am more >>>> interested if >>>> any of the subclasses override it. >>> >>> ok, I agree here. >> I disagree there. >> Browse stream and collection. > > I meant that the icon should show whether the abstract method is > overridden or not. What about keeping the cyan icon for abstract > methods, but as a triangle pointing south when the method is > overridden and as a square when it's not? or nothing when it is not? Try to come up with a nice model. Then after we should see how we can sell it also as a paper. > > > > David > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 23, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] On Icons

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

yes priority is not good because it changes depending on the mixture. I think that we should experiment and build a conceptual model. Stef On Sep 23, 2008, at 11:10 AM, Lukas Renggli wrote: >>> So conclusion having both information would be good. >>> May be we should get two icons because screen space is cheap. >> >> well, not too cheap... Having two icons might make matters even >> worse, at >> least for Lukas, right? ;) >> I would rather go for one icon containing both information, like >> the one >> for overridding methods that also override superclass methods. > > I like clear responsibilities. If one column of icons would show > inheritance related things, and the other packaging related things > that would be already much better. The question is if really both are > necessary. What I don't like if different things are mixed and have > priorities over each other that are not really clear. > > Cheers, > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 23, 2008