September 2008 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] About Flap

by Lukas Renggli

> I like the way they are in dev images. You move the mouse to the right > side of the image and the flap opens. From there, you can drag&drop > your favorite tool. Do you have any faster way to open a browser or a > transcript? Ctrl+B and Ctrl+T -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Sept. 24, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Burning the disk packs: Who puts equality into Object?

by Marcus Denker

Hi, If you look at Object: Object numberOfMethods 449 Object linesOfCode 2356 I have somehow the feeling that there is some other stuff that we should remove before thinking about removing equality... Marcus On 24.09.2008, at 18:14, Bill Schwab wrote: > I have always seen defaulting equality to identity to be a useful > confusion, and I fear it would simply be copied down (often in > frustration) into many classes vs. done once. It also removes a > compatibility with other Smalltalks, which I think we should be > working > to maintain and enhance where it is not destructive to do so. Just > my 2 > asCents. > > Bill > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 273-6785 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > >>>> diegogomezdeck(a)consultar.com 09/24/08 9:30 AM >>> > Hi guys, > > I recently discovered Pharo project and I'd like to fire a proposal > for > cleaning Object class. > > The "simple" idea is to remove equality concept (implemented with #= > and > #hash messages) from Object. > > Equality means that different instances can represent the same value > (like Numbers, Strings, Dates, etc). Identity means that any object > is > a different object from any other from the world. > > All objects have identity (#== and #basicHash messages), but not all > object share the equality concept. To make the things worst, the > default implementation of equality is based on the identity, > producing a > big confusion to newbies (and experts too!). > > One implementation option is to implement the Equality concept in a > super-class of Magnitude (Comparable?), and reused all over the class > hierarchy with traits. > > Of course such factorization will impact also on the Collections that > (most of them) also confuses equality with identity. Probably some > collections will need an Strategy-pattern to use identity or equality > based behavior. > > What do you think? > > Cheers, > > -- Diego > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker

Sept. 24, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Burning the disk packs: Who puts equality into Object?

by Bill Schwab

I have always seen defaulting equality to identity to be a useful confusion, and I fear it would simply be copied down (often in frustration) into many classes vs. done once. It also removes a compatibility with other Smalltalks, which I think we should be working to maintain and enhance where it is not destructive to do so. Just my 2 asCents. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> diegogomezdeck(a)consultar.com 09/24/08 9:30 AM >>> Hi guys, I recently discovered Pharo project and I'd like to fire a proposal for cleaning Object class. The "simple" idea is to remove equality concept (implemented with #= and #hash messages) from Object. Equality means that different instances can represent the same value (like Numbers, Strings, Dates, etc). Identity means that any object is a different object from any other from the world. All objects have identity (#== and #basicHash messages), but not all object share the equality concept. To make the things worst, the default implementation of equality is based on the identity, producing a big confusion to newbies (and experts too!). One implementation option is to implement the Equality concept in a super-class of Magnitude (Comparable?), and reused all over the class hierarchy with traits. Of course such factorization will impact also on the Collections that (most of them) also confuses equality with identity. Probably some collections will need an Strategy-pattern to use identity or equality based behavior. What do you think? Cheers, -- Diego _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 24, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] About traits support in OB

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi david > To browse traits used in a given class, we have this fourth switch > next to instance / ? / class, called 'traits'. Clicking on it then > lists in the next column all traits used in this class and the class > itself. This additional column duplicates the switches > instance / ? / class. > > For classes using traits you can see methods coming from traits in > italic, methods defined but not implemented in a trait in normal > font when browsing the class and in blue when browsing the trait. > You also see the hierarchy of the used traits in this 'trait column'. > > But it's also possible to open this 'trait column' for classes that > do not use any traits, this is very confusing. Also it's not nice to > suddenly get five columns instead of four. Yes! > My suggestions to better integrate traits is to show them below the > classes using them directly in the class column, hierarchially > sorted and marked either with an icon or with a colored label (eg. > in blue). Like this we can get rid of this additional column and the > additional 'trait' switch. Would be cool. > The only problem I see with this change is that it might confuse > people as traits are displayed along with all classes of a package/ > class cat in the class column, although they might not be part of > neither the package/class cat nor the class hierarchy. > > What do you think, should I change it like this or not? Give a try. I think that this is worth. I would like to rewrite a part of the collection hierarchy and use Nile so more traits. Stef > > > Cheers, > David > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 24, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] About Flap

by Bill Schwab

Now THAT'S a reason for us to remove them!!!!!!! :) Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> damien.cassou(a)gmail.com 09/24/08 9:07 AM >>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 3:05 PM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 1:55 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> I would like to know what do we decided for Flaps? > > I like the way they are in dev images. You move the mouse to the right > side of the image and the flap opens. From there, you can drag&drop > your favorite tool. Do you have any faster way to open a browser or a > transcript? Note that latest versions of Microsoft Visual Studio now contains flaps too. -- Damien Cassou Peter von der AhÃ©: Â«I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good luckÂ». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu)

Sept. 24, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] On Icons

by David RÃ¶thlisberger

Hi Torsten, > this crashes the browser for traits. I think #browserIcon returning nil > is also required in Trait/TraitDescription class. At least this works for me > then. oh, yes, sure, thanks! OB-Enhancements-dr.212 fixes this. David

Sept. 24, 2008

[Pharo-project] On Icons

by Torsten Bergmann

David, this crashes the browser for traits. I think #browserIcon returning nil is also required in Trait/TraitDescription class. At least this works for me then. Bye Torsten -- Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal fÃ¼r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer

Sept. 24, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] On Icons

by David RÃ¶thlisberger

>> But otherwise I agree, I will impl. means to let the entities decide >> on the icon they will get. > > Yes this is important that the class get its word ok. You can now (as of OB-Enhancements-dr.211) implement a method #browserIcon on the class-side of any class you want and let this method return a symbol of the desired icon. This setting has the highest priority. example: OBNode class >> browserIcon ^#needsWork Cheers, David

Sept. 24, 2008

[Pharo-project] Burning the disk packs: Who puts equality into Object?

by Diego Gomez Deck

Hi guys, I recently discovered Pharo project and I'd like to fire a proposal for cleaning Object class. The "simple" idea is to remove equality concept (implemented with #= and #hash messages) from Object. Equality means that different instances can represent the same value (like Numbers, Strings, Dates, etc). Identity means that any object is a different object from any other from the world. All objects have identity (#== and #basicHash messages), but not all object share the equality concept. To make the things worst, the default implementation of equality is based on the identity, producing a big confusion to newbies (and experts too!). One implementation option is to implement the Equality concept in a super-class of Magnitude (Comparable?), and reused all over the class hierarchy with traits. Of course such factorization will impact also on the Collections that (most of them) also confuses equality with identity. Probably some collections will need an Strategy-pattern to use identity or equality based behavior. What do you think? Cheers, -- Diego

Sept. 24, 2008

[Pharo-project] About Flap

by Torsten Bergmann

Damien wrote >Do you have any faster way to open a browser or a transcript? Hit Cmd+b for browser and Cmd+t for transcript. ;) Bye Torsten -- Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehÃ¶rt? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger

Sept. 24, 2008