September 2008 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] possible TODOs...

by Michael Roberts

I would keep them in the tracker too. the question in my mind is if dumping a large list into a single issue scales? Perhaps by convention if an issue contains a list, it is considered a bucket and people break issues out on their own as they go? A single issue with 100s of comments is going to get a mess. but then you have comments on issues in two places. that would be where the wiki would help as a dumping ground for lists, where you could delete items on insertion into the tracker. I'm just thinking out loud... I implemented the full screen but marcus beat me to it. i'll start at the bottom next time ;) just my 0.02 GBP / EUR Mike

Sept. 27, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] About Flap

by Bill Schwab

Hello all, Flaps will be easier to remove than to replace, and toolbars and menus come to mind, of course. "The" world menu is a concept that always bothers me a little: while I like having the ability to run Pharo with what amounts to MDI (child shells in a single main window), it would be nice to have each shell/SystemWindow be a host window. In the latter situation, flaps and world menu are (correct me if I am wrong) largely homeless. Ok, a flap could be a host window of sorts (perhaps hidden when Pharo does not have focus), but Pharo no longer owns the desktop, so the world menu is gone, right?? Maybe it simply _should_ be gone in that case. In terms of flaps, they no doubt add to drawing overhead. Would that not improve if the polling were converted to handling events? Another helpful change would be to either replace "tearing off" a new tool to clicking/releasing a command button that simply opens it at default location and size, or changing the dragging to respect the fast window drag setting. I invariably set that even on new machines (not that I am quick to replace old ones). Bottom line: faster GUI code never hurts. A pop or a fast drag off of a flap should help. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 09/27/08 1:59 AM >>> OK we will go slowly there. One of the problem is that flaps are taking also a cpu On Sep 27, 2008, at 12:27 AM, Gary Chambers wrote: > I quite like the tools flap, when configured for auto-popout and > with "solid" style... > Just my 2c > > Gary. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Igor Stasenko" > <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > To: "An open mailing list to discuss any topics related to an open- > sourceSmalltalk" <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] About Flap > > >> 2008/9/24 Marcus Denker <denker(a)iam.unibe.ch>: >>> >>> On 24.09.2008, at 20:14, Bill Schwab wrote: >>> >>>> Lukas, >>>> >>>> That's fine if my hands are on the keyboard, but if I have one on >>>> the >>>> mouse (common when browsing), then (in Dolphin at least), I end up >>>> either right clicking on a class in an open browser, or hitting a >>>> toolbar button. For the more obscure tools, the shell menus >>>> (Tools) do >>>> the trick. Shortcuts are great, but we should also provide mouse- >>>> based >>>> options. >>>> >>> >>> remember: there will be a menu, with a "tools" entry. And there will >>> always be the world-menu (click on the backround). >>> >>> the flap is not faster in the number of clicks than a pulldown >>> menu... >>> >> >> well, with flaps is more convenient because you can drag a tool >> window >> and place it where you want to. >> While from menu - first, it placing a window automatically, and then >> often you need to arrange it again. >> How about putting a window in hand, when you opening it from menu? >> I find it very convenient and useful feature - it gives you chance to >> arrange window with no extra clicks. >> >> >>> Marcus >>> >>> -- >>> Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch >>> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 27, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] possible TODOs...

by Norbert Hartl

On Sat, 2008-09-27 at 17:09 +0200, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > I thought marcus was planning to create a wiki page with the todos. > So if you cannot find one, just create one. > I have the impression that we could use another tag for todo issue. > since wiki pages do not work well for trakcing. > I would opt for putting the todos in the tracker. IMHO it is impossible to keep a wiki page in sync. In tracker there is already something like a todo: an accepted enhancement! my 2 Norbert > On Sep 27, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Michael Roberts wrote: > > > folks, I was wondering (or I have missed the docs) if someone could > > update HowToContribute on the wiki to include the loose ideas for how > > to construct and manage wish lists & todos etc? Is the plan that the > > issue tracker is used as the master todo list? Say #186 contains a > > list of things to do. If I start working on one should I create a new > > entry so that I can show progress on it? I like the issue tracker, > > i'm just not entirely sure how to behave in this pre-coding / > > organisational phase. HowToContribute assumes pretty much you're > > ready with your mcz. > > > > cheers, > > Mike > > > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 9:12 AM, Marcus Denker <denker(a)iam.unibe.ch> > > wrote: > >> > >> On 21.09.2008, at 16:22, Janko MivÅ¡ek wrote: > >> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> Let me add few my wishes: > >>> > >>> - Inspect and Explore merging into just Inspect. By extending > >>> Explorer > >>> with remaining Inspector functionalities like editing objects? > >>> > >>> - Inspect always on the same place in menus, not once at the top, > >>> then on > >>> the middle, on the bottom... > >>> > >>> - same for senders/implementors > >>> > >>> - Integrating Monticello commands directly into code browser, in > >>> right-click menu over packages. This really helps with code > >>> management, I > >>> know that from VW. > >>> > >>> - switch off halos by default, > >>> > >>> - multi select by Ctrl-left click or Shift-left click (all other > >>> windowing > >>> systems have multi select, so it is a time to introduce it here > >>> too = a big > >>> plus for newcomers) > >>> > >> > >> Good ideas! I am collecting them for now in this bug-report: > >> > >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=186 > >> > >> > >> Marcus > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch > >> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pharo-project mailing list > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 27, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] possible TODOs...

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I thought marcus was planning to create a wiki page with the todos. So if you cannot find one, just create one. I have the impression that we could use another tag for todo issue. since wiki pages do not work well for trakcing. On Sep 27, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Michael Roberts wrote: > folks, I was wondering (or I have missed the docs) if someone could > update HowToContribute on the wiki to include the loose ideas for how > to construct and manage wish lists & todos etc? Is the plan that the > issue tracker is used as the master todo list? Say #186 contains a > list of things to do. If I start working on one should I create a new > entry so that I can show progress on it? I like the issue tracker, > i'm just not entirely sure how to behave in this pre-coding / > organisational phase. HowToContribute assumes pretty much you're > ready with your mcz. > > cheers, > Mike > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 9:12 AM, Marcus Denker <denker(a)iam.unibe.ch> > wrote: >> >> On 21.09.2008, at 16:22, Janko MivÅ¡ek wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Let me add few my wishes: >>> >>> - Inspect and Explore merging into just Inspect. By extending >>> Explorer >>> with remaining Inspector functionalities like editing objects? >>> >>> - Inspect always on the same place in menus, not once at the top, >>> then on >>> the middle, on the bottom... >>> >>> - same for senders/implementors >>> >>> - Integrating Monticello commands directly into code browser, in >>> right-click menu over packages. This really helps with code >>> management, I >>> know that from VW. >>> >>> - switch off halos by default, >>> >>> - multi select by Ctrl-left click or Shift-left click (all other >>> windowing >>> systems have multi select, so it is a time to introduce it here >>> too = a big >>> plus for newcomers) >>> >> >> Good ideas! I am collecting them for now in this bug-report: >> >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=186 >> >> >> Marcus >> >> >> -- >> Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch >> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 27, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Regression testing results within package manifesto

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

this is just for now a stupid package on squeaksource. the point is that I tried to make it independent of anything. May be the Manifesto should inherit from packageInfo. Stef On Sep 27, 2008, at 4:42 PM, Michael Roberts wrote: > Where can I read about DrDoc? > > thanks > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 27, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] possible TODOs...

by Michael Roberts

folks, I was wondering (or I have missed the docs) if someone could update HowToContribute on the wiki to include the loose ideas for how to construct and manage wish lists & todos etc? Is the plan that the issue tracker is used as the master todo list? Say #186 contains a list of things to do. If I start working on one should I create a new entry so that I can show progress on it? I like the issue tracker, i'm just not entirely sure how to behave in this pre-coding / organisational phase. HowToContribute assumes pretty much you're ready with your mcz. cheers, Mike On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 9:12 AM, Marcus Denker <denker(a)iam.unibe.ch> wrote: > > On 21.09.2008, at 16:22, Janko MivÅ¡ek wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Let me add few my wishes: >> >> - Inspect and Explore merging into just Inspect. By extending Explorer >> with remaining Inspector functionalities like editing objects? >> >> - Inspect always on the same place in menus, not once at the top, then on >> the middle, on the bottom... >> >> - same for senders/implementors >> >> - Integrating Monticello commands directly into code browser, in >> right-click menu over packages. This really helps with code management, I >> know that from VW. >> >> - switch off halos by default, >> >> - multi select by Ctrl-left click or Shift-left click (all other windowing >> systems have multi select, so it is a time to introduce it here too = a big >> plus for newcomers) >> > > Good ideas! I am collecting them for now in this bug-report: > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=186 > > > Marcus > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch > http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 27, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Regression testing results within package manifesto

by Michael Roberts

Where can I read about DrDoc? thanks Mike

Sept. 27, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [Seaside-dev] preliminary Seaside 2.9 alpha universe

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> > > Keith, please correct me if I'm wrong: > > - Sake is a domain specific language with all required tools to define > make-like rules. It allows people to describe tasks (as done in the > Ant/Java world) and execute these tasks when necessary > (http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/5953) Yes we need that > > - Packages uses Sake to reimplement a universe-like tool with > dependencies. Then, it describes a lot of Squeak packages with their > dependencies. Ok >> What is PackagesSqueak310U....? > > > this is a class which has been generated automatically by a Sake task > from the Dev Universe. This means that each change I do in the > Universe system is reflected automatically in Sake just by running a > task. > > Moreover, the fact that each package is describe in a method using > only Smalltalk code makes creating new set of packages very easy. For > Pharo, we could just subclass PackagesSqueak310U and override the > methods we want to change. For Seaside, they could just provide yet > another class... I think it's much easier than with Universes. > Finally, the package descriptions are hosted on SqueakSource instead > of one's particular server. Good! So let us check that. Don't you want to write something for the next book Squeak by Example VOl 2 (err....Phar ....) Stef > > > -- > Damien Cassou > Peter von der AhÃ©: Â«I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good > luckÂ». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu) > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 27, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [Seaside-dev] preliminary Seaside 2.9 alpha universe

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks I will. since like me you would like to see some of the ideas od keith to be put forward. If you have some time, read the code andgive feedback I would like to continue to cruve out etoy for now. On Sep 27, 2008, at 11:43 AM, Damien Cassou wrote: > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 6:25 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> On Sep 26, 2008, at 5:03 PM, Damien Cassou wrote: >> Did you check what LFP is doing? >> I would like to know that. >> Because the point is not that it would not be working but what are >> the stuff >> it brings in. > > http://installer.pbwiki.org/LevelPlayingField > > LPF is a script which installs Monticello 1.5 and Installer in your > image. The aim here is to get an equivalent playing field in all > images. This script allowed me to install Universes, OmniBrowser and > Shout in a Croquet image in a few minutes. > > For Pharo, we could have a look at what the script does exactly and > integrate the interesting fixes. > > -- > Damien Cassou > Peter von der AhÃ©: Â«I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good > luckÂ». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu) > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 27, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Regression testing results within package manifesto

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I do not see how we can synchronise real texttual documentation other by care. For the tests I would like to have information such as: the last time (with a timestamp) the tests were run for this package these ones were ok and those ones not. This way we could have regression data. Same for SmallLint I would like that a package defines the list of rules that make sense to it and may be the expected results. Stef On Sep 27, 2008, at 10:23 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > The idea is nice. But how will you ensure that your meta-data are > well synchronized with your code? > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On 27 Sep 2008, at 09:40, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Hi guys >> >> For Moose we started to add package manifesto using DrDoc. >> We will use the manifesto to document our package with license, >> documentation, class diagram... >> Now what I would really like to have is the results of SmallLint >> rules and the tests >> because when I run the tests if some of them were broken I do not >> know whether I made progress or not. >> >> I think that the manifesto could be a nice place to keep such >> information. >> After we could have a simple manisfesto dropping script >> Object allSubclasses do: .... >> >> what do you think about that, I would like to have a bit more self >> documentation and software engineering >> meta data within the system. >> >> Stef >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 27, 2008