July 2008 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] lost again phone and internet :(

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

so I not connected anymore :(

July 18, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Classes in more than one package

by Matthew Fulmer

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 06:36:11PM +0200, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > I discovered the problem. It has nothing to do with Omnibrowser. > If you load Installer from squeaksource (http://www.squeaksource.com/Installer' > ), you will notice that the package Installer depends on Installer- > Core and Installer-Test, two other packages that are loaded when you > load Installer. > > But Installer-Core and -Test are 'sub-package' of Installer, and since > Installer is not empty, MC get confused. The Installer package is obsolete. It has been divided up. Use Installer-Core instead -- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/

July 17, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] A board for pharo

by Bill Schwab

Adrian, I reserve the right to turn on you without notice<g>, but I see this as positive. I am also glad you pointed out the problems with mob rule in the Squeak Community - that way, I didn't have to do it first. I was considering Stef to chair a default "board" from the beginning, so making it explicit is fine by me. By all means, ditch Etoys, but we should also not obstruct efforts to make it re-loadable, provided that can be done w/o excessive cruft in the image. Deciding what is an acceptable tradeoff between a clean system and an inclusive one requires some authority that must be excercised wisely. Stick to a clean Smalltalk that can be a base for anything from stable products to bleeding edge experiments, and things should go well. Bill ========================== adi(a)netstyle.ch wrote: Hi Norbert, I can understand your concerns. It may look a bit like the announced board members take over without being based on the community. Of course there is no such intent and I think the processes should be transparent and the interests of the community should always be taken into account. Yet, we intentionally chose not to do a democratic setup because of the negative experience we made with Squeak and its SqueakFoundation. The democratic setup and a board that didn't actively steer the direction of development and make decisions paralyzed the community because of the too diverging interests. This situation eventually lead to the decision to start Pharo. Therefore, we really want to make sure that we do not do the same mistakes again. And this is exactly also why I think its important to instantiate a board as early as possible. If we wait until a lot of people have joined (and I can imagine that this will happen as there does not seem to be much progress in Squeak right now), the risk is that we again loose our focus. Just to give an example: even if people come to Pharo and use it for EToys, I still want to be able to remove it. You ask why Marcus and Mike? On the one hand, both bring a lot of experience from managing previous Squeak releases (3.8 and 3.9) and both have a deep know-how from being actively involved in Squeak for many years. On the other hand, with Mike we have another guy from industry, so we have a balance between academia and industry (although I'm also involved in research with my PhD, I consider myself as an industry guy because netstyle.ch/cmsbox is the main reason I'm pushing Pharo). Cheers, Adrian Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029

July 17, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] VeryPickyMorph

by Adrian Lienhard

Thanks, I verified your change (issue is http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=119) Adrian On Jul 17, 2008, at 13:05 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: > Sorry, I should have done this before. > > Yes, there is a new entry. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On 17 Jul 2008, at 11:38, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > >> Thanks Alex, >> >> Could you please also create an issue in the tracker (see at the >> bottom of http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/HowToContribute)? >> >> Adrian >> >> On Jul 17, 2008, at 11:20 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> >>> A new version (134) of Morphic is waiting in PharoInBox. Note that >>> it has been carefully merged with 133. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> On 16 Jul 2008, at 14:30, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>> >>>> The comment says: "Contributed by Bob Arning as part of the >>>> ObjectExplorer package" but I can't see where it would be used, >>>> neither how this would be useful for other applications. >>>> >>>> I'd say, kill it! ;) >>>> >>>> Adrian >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jul 16, 2008, at 13:53 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>>> this class is referenced nowhere, maybe it could be removed. >>>>> Anyone has an idea for what this class is useful? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> -- >>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>> project >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 17, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Classes in more than one package

by Adrian Lienhard

On Jul 17, 2008, at 18:36 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: > I discovered the problem. It has nothing to do with Omnibrowser. > If you load Installer from squeaksource (http://www.squeaksource.com/Installer' > ), you will notice that the package Installer depends on Installer- > Core and Installer-Test, two other packages that are loaded when you > load Installer. ok, in this case it has also nothing to do with Pharo or MC, but with the external Installer package. > But Installer-Core and -Test are 'sub-package' of Installer, and > since Installer is not empty, MC get confused. > > I am not sure how this could be fixed. But I think that having > dependent packages named Installer-Core and Installer-Test does not > help. InstallerCore and InstallerTest would be better. Exactly. Adrian > > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On 17 Jul 2008, at 18:04, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > >> ok, I'm even more confused now. >> >> As I said before... >> >>>>>> I wonder where those packages come from in your image. In the >>>>>> most recent version of Pharo I don't see an Installer nor >>>>>> Installer-Test package. Also no such package exists in the >>>>>> Pharo repository... >> >> Alex, can you help me reproduce the problem? >> >> Adrian >> >> >> On Jul 17, 2008, at 16:43 , David RÃ¶thlisberger wrote: >> >>> >>>> No it is not. >>>> May be davdi is refering to something else. >>> >>> No, the bug report (http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7108) is >>> about this problem (I think). >>> It's just that Damien Pollet noticed the existence of this problem >>> in OmniBrowser, as there the packages Installer-Test and Installer- >>> Core appear twice. So he was thinking it might be a problem of >>> OmniBrowser, which is not the case. >>> I hope this shed some light on this issue. ;) >>> >>> David >>> >>>> On Jul 17, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>> I did not know this was related to Omnibrowser. >>>>> >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 16 Jul 2008, at 15:13, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> ok, ok. I didn't know you were talking about OmniBrower as the >>>>>> context is missing.... >>>>>> Adrian >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 16, 2008, at 14:26 , Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I wonder where those packages come from in your image. In the >>>>>>> most recent version of Pharo I don't see an Installer nor >>>>>>> Installer-Test package. Also no such package exists in the >>>>>>> Pharo repository... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Adrian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jul 16, 2008, at 13:49 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I also noticed that there are classe that are contained in >>>>>>>> more than one package. For example, InstallerTest is >>>>>>>> contained in the package Installer and Installer-Test. >>>>>>>> Same thing for the class Installer. It is contained in the >>>>>>>> package Installer and Installer-core. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I guess that packages Installer-Test and Installer-Core must >>>>>>>> be removed, since there are categories in the package >>>>>>>> Installer. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>> project >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 17, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Classes in more than one package

by Alexandre Bergel

I discovered the problem. It has nothing to do with Omnibrowser. If you load Installer from squeaksource (http://www.squeaksource.com/Installer' ), you will notice that the package Installer depends on Installer- Core and Installer-Test, two other packages that are loaded when you load Installer. But Installer-Core and -Test are 'sub-package' of Installer, and since Installer is not empty, MC get confused. I am not sure how this could be fixed. But I think that having dependent packages named Installer-Core and Installer-Test does not help. InstallerCore and InstallerTest would be better. Cheers, Alexandre On 17 Jul 2008, at 18:04, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > ok, I'm even more confused now. > > As I said before... > >>>>> I wonder where those packages come from in your image. In the >>>>> most recent version of Pharo I don't see an Installer nor >>>>> Installer-Test package. Also no such package exists in the Pharo >>>>> repository... > > Alex, can you help me reproduce the problem? > > Adrian > > > On Jul 17, 2008, at 16:43 , David RÃ¶thlisberger wrote: > >> >>> No it is not. >>> May be davdi is refering to something else. >> >> No, the bug report (http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7108) is >> about this problem (I think). >> It's just that Damien Pollet noticed the existence of this problem >> in OmniBrowser, as there the packages Installer-Test and Installer- >> Core appear twice. So he was thinking it might be a problem of >> OmniBrowser, which is not the case. >> I hope this shed some light on this issue. ;) >> >> David >> >>> On Jul 17, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> I did not know this was related to Omnibrowser. >>>> >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>> >>>> On 16 Jul 2008, at 15:13, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>>> >>>>> ok, ok. I didn't know you were talking about OmniBrower as the >>>>> context is missing.... >>>>> Adrian >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 16, 2008, at 14:26 , Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I wonder where those packages come from in your image. In the >>>>>> most recent version of Pharo I don't see an Installer nor >>>>>> Installer-Test package. Also no such package exists in the >>>>>> Pharo repository... >>>>>> >>>>>> Adrian >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 16, 2008, at 13:49 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I also noticed that there are classe that are contained in >>>>>>> more than one package. For example, InstallerTest is contained >>>>>>> in the package Installer and Installer-Test. >>>>>>> Same thing for the class Installer. It is contained in the >>>>>>> package Installer and Installer-core. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I guess that packages Installer-Test and Installer-Core must >>>>>>> be removed, since there are categories in the package Installer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>> project >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

July 17, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Classes in more than one package

by Adrian Lienhard

ok, I'm even more confused now. As I said before... >>>> I wonder where those packages come from in your image. In the >>>> most recent version of Pharo I don't see an Installer nor >>>> Installer-Test package. Also no such package exists in the Pharo >>>> repository... Alex, can you help me reproduce the problem? Adrian On Jul 17, 2008, at 16:43 , David RÃ¶thlisberger wrote: > >> No it is not. >> May be davdi is refering to something else. > > No, the bug report (http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7108) is > about this problem (I think). > It's just that Damien Pollet noticed the existence of this problem > in OmniBrowser, as there the packages Installer-Test and Installer- > Core appear twice. So he was thinking it might be a problem of > OmniBrowser, which is not the case. > I hope this shed some light on this issue. ;) > > David > >> On Jul 17, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>> I did not know this was related to Omnibrowser. >>> >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> On 16 Jul 2008, at 15:13, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>> >>>> ok, ok. I didn't know you were talking about OmniBrower as the >>>> context is missing.... >>>> Adrian >>>> >>>> On Jul 16, 2008, at 14:26 , Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>>> >>>>> I wonder where those packages come from in your image. In the >>>>> most recent version of Pharo I don't see an Installer nor >>>>> Installer-Test package. Also no such package exists in the Pharo >>>>> repository... >>>>> >>>>> Adrian >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 16, 2008, at 13:49 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I also noticed that there are classe that are contained in more >>>>>> than one package. For example, InstallerTest is contained in >>>>>> the package Installer and Installer-Test. >>>>>> Same thing for the class Installer. It is contained in the >>>>>> package Installer and Installer-core. >>>>>> >>>>>> I guess that packages Installer-Test and Installer-Core must be >>>>>> removed, since there are categories in the package Installer. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>> -- >>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>> project >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 17, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] A board for pharo

by Norbert Hartl

Hi Stef, this little transparency made everything clear for me. Thank you very much sharing your opinion and your emails. This mail goes into the archive and answers a lot of questions. Fini! I didn't want to opt against some of the board members. Marcus and Mike I met in person already. And I appreciated already the work together with Adrien. So, this _is_ indeed a fine board (for me) ;) Norbert On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 16:22 +0200, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi norbert > > > I think that the board should not be really active right now. > But may be there will be time where we will need to take decisions. > My take on that is that I would like to have a really transparent > process > similar to what we are doing now: > - emails in the mailing-list, > - nice exchange (as for the stream discussions), > - seriously I do not have any preconceived ideas (even on namespace - > ok on > namespace I have some ideas :)), > > We want to be influenced by contributing people. > > Tthe point is that **we** the list active members can take decision and > that in case of deadlock the board can give us some way to take > decision. > > For the fact that this is early or not, I do not know, I'm more > lenient :) > so I thought let it go for after, other boarders saw it in another way > and this > was ok for me too. > > At the end, I'm **happy** (in the naive sense) because I do not want > pharo to > be my project. I want pharo to be **our** project. But we need to be > able to > take decisions and build a vision. So this is why I accepted the idea > of the board. > > May be we should discussed it publicly but this was really simple. > Here is the two emails. > > First email: > > "Now, I think we should also start thinking about how to manage Pharo > to not drift > into the same problems like with Squeak. I here primarily think about > decision making. > Who holds the keys and has the power to take final decisions? Do we > have a board and > if yes how does it constitute itself or is there just Stef as a > dictator ;) > (which may be just fine too)?" > > I said that I wanted to have a board (for the reasons I explained > above). > > Second email: > > Hi Mike, > > Stef, Marcus and I have been discussing about instantiating a board > for Pharo and thought about asking you to join. > The idea is that the board is not elected but works by "co-optation", > meaning the board decides who can join or not. > > It probably goes without saying that a board that can efficiently take > decisions is critical if we do not want to get into > a situation again where different interests block everything ;). > > I think at moment Stef is the "owner" of Pharo and he creates this > board now -- so this should not be understood > as an unfriendly act by the current participants. > > What do you think? > Adrian > > > > Now about the board members: > - Marcus knows much more than me about Smalltalk :) > - Mike is from industry and we share a common vision (iSqueak, > YSqueak...) > - Adrian is running business and academic, so Smalltalk is central > for him > > Now 4 is not a good number for taking decision so we will see, when we > will > need to fix that. > > I sincerly hope that you understand us. For me, it does not change > anything > to the vision, motivation..... This is just to protect ourselves because > we got burnt. Now we do not have have an internal mailing-list. > > Stef > > > Hi, > > > > that is very very early for the installation of a "board". What > > are the topics only a board can do? I think at this stage of project > > existence it should be a goal to involve everyone participating as > > much as possible. And I doubt the installation of a board supports > > this. I think you first need a community that you want to "steer". > > > > I have the impression we really should care about transparency. > > Announcing a board and a board "model" without any prior > > announcement or > > discussion is not very sensible to other people involved. > > I can live with this board but e.g. I want to know what/where put > > Marcus and Michael in charge? Both are rather absent from this list > > and Marcus is "recovering slowly". If there were any decisions that > > must have been made while meeting in personal or by private email. > > That's what I mean. Please correct me if I missed something important. > > > > Maybe it is just whining from my site and not worth it. But I'm really > > sensible to such things and I (too) must organize very well where to > > spend my spare time. > > > > Norbert > > > > On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 09:30 +0200, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Hello everybody > >> > >> We are happy to announce a board for Pharo! So far, Pharo has mainly > >> been "directed" by Stef who initiated > >> the project. Now that the community grows and Pharo makes progress, > >> the board will bring some more > >> structure into the decision making process. > >> > >> We don't have bylaws or any rules written down yet but the idea is to > >> run it similar to the Apache board. That > >> is, new board members are elected by existing board members. The > >> rational is that we want to assure continuity > >> to be able to steadily push Pharo forward. > >> > >> The current board members are: > >> - Marcus Denker > >> - Stefane Ducasse > >> - Adrian Lienhard > >> - Michael Rueger > >> > >> Stef > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pharo-project mailing list > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 17, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Classes in more than one package

by David RÃ¶thlisberger

> No it is not. > May be davdi is refering to something else. No, the bug report (http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7108) is about this problem (I think). It's just that Damien Pollet noticed the existence of this problem in OmniBrowser, as there the packages Installer-Test and Installer-Core appear twice. So he was thinking it might be a problem of OmniBrowser, which is not the case. I hope this shed some light on this issue. ;) David > On Jul 17, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >> I did not know this was related to Omnibrowser. >> >> Alexandre >> >> >> On 16 Jul 2008, at 15:13, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >> >>> ok, ok. I didn't know you were talking about OmniBrower as the >>> context is missing.... >>> Adrian >>> >>> On Jul 16, 2008, at 14:26 , Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>> >>>> I wonder where those packages come from in your image. In the most >>>> recent version of Pharo I don't see an Installer nor Installer-Test >>>> package. Also no such package exists in the Pharo repository... >>>> >>>> Adrian >>>> >>>> On Jul 16, 2008, at 13:49 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>>> I also noticed that there are classe that are contained in more >>>>> than one package. For example, InstallerTest is contained in the >>>>> package Installer and Installer-Test. >>>>> Same thing for the class Installer. It is contained in the package >>>>> Installer and Installer-core. >>>>> >>>>> I guess that packages Installer-Test and Installer-Core must be >>>>> removed, since there are categories in the package Installer. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> -- >>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 17, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] A board for pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi norbert I think that the board should not be really active right now. But may be there will be time where we will need to take decisions. My take on that is that I would like to have a really transparent process similar to what we are doing now: - emails in the mailing-list, - nice exchange (as for the stream discussions), - seriously I do not have any preconceived ideas (even on namespace - ok on namespace I have some ideas :)), We want to be influenced by contributing people. Tthe point is that **we** the list active members can take decision and that in case of deadlock the board can give us some way to take decision. For the fact that this is early or not, I do not know, I'm more lenient :) so I thought let it go for after, other boarders saw it in another way and this was ok for me too. At the end, I'm **happy** (in the naive sense) because I do not want pharo to be my project. I want pharo to be **our** project. But we need to be able to take decisions and build a vision. So this is why I accepted the idea of the board. May be we should discussed it publicly but this was really simple. Here is the two emails. First email: "Now, I think we should also start thinking about how to manage Pharo to not drift into the same problems like with Squeak. I here primarily think about decision making. Who holds the keys and has the power to take final decisions? Do we have a board and if yes how does it constitute itself or is there just Stef as a dictator ;) (which may be just fine too)?" I said that I wanted to have a board (for the reasons I explained above). Second email: Hi Mike, Stef, Marcus and I have been discussing about instantiating a board for Pharo and thought about asking you to join. The idea is that the board is not elected but works by "co-optation", meaning the board decides who can join or not. It probably goes without saying that a board that can efficiently take decisions is critical if we do not want to get into a situation again where different interests block everything ;). I think at moment Stef is the "owner" of Pharo and he creates this board now -- so this should not be understood as an unfriendly act by the current participants. What do you think? Adrian Now about the board members: - Marcus knows much more than me about Smalltalk :) - Mike is from industry and we share a common vision (iSqueak, YSqueak...) - Adrian is running business and academic, so Smalltalk is central for him Now 4 is not a good number for taking decision so we will see, when we will need to fix that. I sincerly hope that you understand us. For me, it does not change anything to the vision, motivation..... This is just to protect ourselves because we got burnt. Now we do not have have an internal mailing-list. Stef > Hi, > > that is very very early for the installation of a "board". What > are the topics only a board can do? I think at this stage of project > existence it should be a goal to involve everyone participating as > much as possible. And I doubt the installation of a board supports > this. I think you first need a community that you want to "steer". > > I have the impression we really should care about transparency. > Announcing a board and a board "model" without any prior > announcement or > discussion is not very sensible to other people involved. > I can live with this board but e.g. I want to know what/where put > Marcus and Michael in charge? Both are rather absent from this list > and Marcus is "recovering slowly". If there were any decisions that > must have been made while meeting in personal or by private email. > That's what I mean. Please correct me if I missed something important. > > Maybe it is just whining from my site and not worth it. But I'm really > sensible to such things and I (too) must organize very well where to > spend my spare time. > > Norbert > > On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 09:30 +0200, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> Hello everybody >> >> We are happy to announce a board for Pharo! So far, Pharo has mainly >> been "directed" by Stef who initiated >> the project. Now that the community grows and Pharo makes progress, >> the board will bring some more >> structure into the decision making process. >> >> We don't have bylaws or any rules written down yet but the idea is to >> run it similar to the Apache board. That >> is, new board members are elected by existing board members. The >> rational is that we want to assure continuity >> to be able to steadily push Pharo forward. >> >> The current board members are: >> - Marcus Denker >> - Stefane Ducasse >> - Adrian Lienhard >> - Michael Rueger >> >> Stef >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 17, 2008