December 2008 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] IRC channel reminder

by Benoit St-Jean

Hello everyone, For those who would have missed my email, you might be interested to know that we have an IRC channel on server irc.freenode.net, #pharo-project So get an IRC client and /join #pharo-project. See you there! ----------------- Benoit St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Blog: lamneth.wordpress.com A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero. (Albert Einstein)

Dec. 12, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] {Spam?} Re: Interaction with Java

by Bill Schwab

Norbert, Not to start an argument or anything, where do we disagree? I assume I am a bit more jaded about the usefulness of _most_ canned components, but freely admit that the odd thing here or there can be a life saver. "The need for C is quite obvious. It is the best accepted macro assembler ever invented." --- May I steal that? Well said! Bill The need for C is quite obvious. It is the best accepted macro assembler ever invented. Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> norbert(a)hartl.name 12/12/08 6:04 AM >>> On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 16:08 -0300, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > Dear List, > > Something is trotting in my head for few weeks. According to the mails > exchanged on this list, it seems that interacting with C is of a high > priority. I was wondering whether you had a similar need for talking > to the Java world. Few months ago, I worked on Athena, a small > Smalltalk VM written in Java. It can be interfaced with Squeak. This > means that within Squeak, you can create Java objects and talking > directly to them within Squeak. > > Is there anyone who need this? I am ready to continue on this, but I > would like to be use case driven. > The need for C is quite obvious. It is the best accepted macro assembler ever invented. I can see what Bill is talking about but I don't see it that way. If you want to be on the safe side you focus on the least common denominator and that is C nowadays. Using C you have the highest odds that you are able to interface with anything else. That is the same reason why IDL sucks. It is built after the least common denominator (which is C). So the interfaces are clumsy and cumbersome. Having two high-level languages interfacing via IDL is not that powerful you just lose on both sides. What you are talking about is more an integration than an interfacing issue. In this case there could be some gain. Java has its place and it is not competing with C. So there are at least two languages that are accepted today of different reasons. Widening the view on this topic I would add javascript, too. The fashion to implement in/script java has already began. The number of languages like javascript, groovy, jython, jruby, beanshell ... is speaking for itself. So what you are talking about sounds useful to me. I have two use cases in mind: Use case ME: The micro edition approach could bring squeak/smalltalk to mobile devices which I would like to see. Athena is capable of that but it has no graphics. On the other hand there is potato that is able to execute a squeak image. For this approach a combined effort of athena and potato would be a good thing. Use case SE: The standard edition approach will make use of the ScriptHost extension that comes with Java 6. Being able to script any java application with smalltalk would be just wonderful. I'm working wih rhino (mozillas javascript engine in java) at the moment and it is really wonderful. You focus on javascript and take java as your assembly language to code """low level""" tools :) Hope this helps, Norbert _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 12, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: About default UI

by Gary Chambers

Attached a change set thet helps... still get an inital flash of model colour though. As I said before, OB does a lot of direct setting of colours that tends to work against the theme stuff. Regards, Gary. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Rothwell To: Pharo Development Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 4:07 AM Subject: [Pharo-project] Fwd: About default UI Oops...trying to send this again due to changed list address... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rob Rothwell <r.j.rothwell(a)gmail.com> Date: Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] About default UI To: pharo-project(a)gforge.inria.fr On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> wrote: I really like the look that we use now (Watery 2). It looks professional. Also, it shows from the aesthetics point of view that Pharo is different to Squeak. I would agree that Watery 2 is pretty good looking, with just a few annoyances. I kind of wish that in browser type windows (OB, Universe Browser, etc...) the buttons and frames wouldn't keep reverting to their original colors! Trying to fix that is WAY beyond me, however... What we still need to decide about are the default fonts. I still think that the Bitstream Vera family is a good option, or as suggested by Damien Pollet (see his mail from December 1), DejaVu. Yes, I downloaded the Bistream Vera fonts for Windows at http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/ttf-bitstream-vera/1.10/, and liked the Mono font for coding. I think I like a more basic font like Verdana or something, though, for menus, lists, buttons, etc... Take care, Rob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 12, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Interaction with Java

by Alexandre Bergel

> Use case SE: > > The standard edition approach will make use of the ScriptHost > extension that comes with Java 6. Being able to script any java > application with smalltalk would be just wonderful. I'm working > wih rhino (mozillas javascript engine in java) at the moment and > it is really wonderful. You focus on javascript and take java > as your assembly language to code """low level""" tools :) Athena makes use of the Scripting ability of Java 6. When you use Rhino, you should be able to use Athena. Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 12, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Interaction with Java

by Alexandre Bergel

Hi Bill! > Does that help? I'm trying to > encourage you without overestimating the size of the "market." Yes it does. Even if I am not surprise with your experience, thanks for sharing. The ubiquity of the JVM makes it a very appealing platform. For example, people from Ambienttalkt [*] switch from Smalltalk to Java to reach mobile platforms. Communities around JRuby, Jython, IronPython are fairly large. I believe a Smalltalkish achievement could be done here... Ideally, I would need 1 or 2 case studies. My goal is not to provide a product with the same quality of JRuby or Jython, but rather providing a technical tool that some people see a value in it. Cheers, Alexandre [*] http://prog.vub.ac.be/amop/ -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 12, 2008

[Pharo-project] [update] #10189

by Marcus Denker

10189 ----- - Issue 382: EmbeddedMenuMorph sends #startsWith: - Remove unset methods from Etoys - Clean up Preferences more - Finish revert methods in HandMorph for Hilaire - unload package 'SmaCC' - remove Preferences #collapseWindowsInPlace #clickOnLabelToEdit #alternativeWindowBoxesLook #extractFlashInHighQuality #extractFlashInHighestQuality #okToReinitializeFlaps #defaultFileOutFormatMacRoman Removed Methods in Detail: --------------------------- Viewer #nextCostume #previousCostume TileMorph #addArrows #codeString #isTileLike PhraseTileMorph #codeString #resultType #try TileLikeMorph #isTileLike Presenter #ownStandardPalette #stepDown:with: #updateViewer: Player #availableCostumesForArrows #bounce: #doScript: #emptyScript #getBorderStyle #getDropShadow #getLastKeystroke #getRadialGradientFill #getSecondColor #getShadowColor #getSpeed #getUseGradientFill #getValueFromCostume: #goToRightOf: #headDown #headLeft #headRight #headUp #includeAtCursor: #makeBounceSound: #makeNewDrawingIn: #moveToward: #overlaps: #pauseAll: #pauseScript: #rawCostume: #renderedCostume: #setAlpha: #setDropShadow: #setGraphic: #setLastKeystroke: #setLeft: #setRadialGradientFill: #setSecondColor: #setShadowColor: #setUseGradientFill: #turnToward: ListViewLine #objectRepresented: ObjectRepresentativeMorph #objectRepresented: Preferences class #alternativeWindowBoxesLook Preferences class #clickOnLabelToEdii #collapseWindowsInPlace #defaultFileOutFormatMacRoman #extractFlashInHighQuality #extractFlashInHighestQuality #okToReinitializeFlaps SystemWindow #relabelEvent: #updateBox:color: #updateBoxesColor: -- Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker

Dec. 12, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] another test ignore.

by Gary Chambers

(manually entered address rather than using reply-to)

Dec. 12, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Interaction with Java

by Norbert Hartl

On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 16:08 -0300, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > Dear List, > > Something is trotting in my head for few weeks. According to the mails > exchanged on this list, it seems that interacting with C is of a high > priority. I was wondering whether you had a similar need for talking > to the Java world. Few months ago, I worked on Athena, a small > Smalltalk VM written in Java. It can be interfaced with Squeak. This > means that within Squeak, you can create Java objects and talking > directly to them within Squeak. > > Is there anyone who need this? I am ready to continue on this, but I > would like to be use case driven. > The need for C is quite obvious. It is the best accepted macro assembler ever invented. I can see what Bill is talking about but I don't see it that way. If you want to be on the safe side you focus on the least common denominator and that is C nowadays. Using C you have the highest odds that you are able to interface with anything else. That is the same reason why IDL sucks. It is built after the least common denominator (which is C). So the interfaces are clumsy and cumbersome. Having two high-level languages interfacing via IDL is not that powerful you just lose on both sides. What you are talking about is more an integration than an interfacing issue. In this case there could be some gain. Java has its place and it is not competing with C. So there are at least two languages that are accepted today of different reasons. Widening the view on this topic I would add javascript, too. The fashion to implement in/script java has already began. The number of languages like javascript, groovy, jython, jruby, beanshell ... is speaking for itself. So what you are talking about sounds useful to me. I have two use cases in mind: Use case ME: The micro edition approach could bring squeak/smalltalk to mobile devices which I would like to see. Athena is capable of that but it has no graphics. On the other hand there is potato that is able to execute a squeak image. For this approach a combined effort of athena and potato would be a good thing. Use case SE: The standard edition approach will make use of the ScriptHost extension that comes with Java 6. Being able to script any java application with smalltalk would be just wonderful. I'm working wih rhino (mozillas javascript engine in java) at the moment and it is really wonderful. You focus on javascript and take java as your assembly language to code """low level""" tools :) Hope this helps, Norbert

Dec. 12, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Monticello Directory Repository

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

there is already one. On Dec 12, 2008, at 8:41 AM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > You are right, thanks for reporting. > Please create an issue in the tracker. > > Adrian > > On Dec 12, 2008, at 04:13 , Rob Rothwell wrote: > >> Hello... >> >> Could someone tell me if I am just missing something so I can report >> this >> properly if I am? >> >> In a Pharo0.1 #10188 if I open Monticello and try to add a directory >> repository, I get a file list box but no "Ok" button! >> >> Thus, there APPEARS to be no way to select a directory. >> >> Am I just missing something? >> >> Take care, >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Dec. 12, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Monticello Directory Repository

by Adrian Lienhard

You are right, thanks for reporting. Please create an issue in the tracker. Adrian On Dec 12, 2008, at 04:13 , Rob Rothwell wrote: > Hello... > > Could someone tell me if I am just missing something so I can report > this > properly if I am? > > In a Pharo0.1 #10188 if I open Monticello and try to add a directory > repository, I get a file list box but no "Ok" button! > > Thus, there APPEARS to be no way to select a directory. > > Am I just missing something? > > Take care, > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 12, 2008