December 2008 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] knowing all the class using a trait?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi david is there a way to know the classes that use a given trait? Stef

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

ahh now I understand because I'm often working on pharo core and I could not really understand what was the problem. Now indeed what is wrong with getting just the debugger? assuming the same error is raised? stef On Dec 20, 2008, at 6:51 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> > wrote: >> I don't quite understand. When I do "1 foo" I get a notifier window >> (the small one) and not the full debugger. > > I guess Bill is using the Dev-Image of Damien with OB-Tools loaded. > > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by Bill Schwab

Stef, This appears to be deliberate in the new OB tools. I'm all for it as a preference, but recommend disabling it as a default - it's a long way from error to open debugger, so a safe landing along the way is a good idea IMHO. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 12/20/08 11:52 AM >>> From my side this is not something intentional so may be this a preference somewhere. On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Bill Schwab wrote: > Hello all, > > One change I do not like is that errors bring up a debugger vs. > starting > with a notifier. Beyond a "we fear change" <g> reaction, it can get :) > > expensive if things are bad enough to create errors in rapid > succession. > Is there a preference I can set to get the previous behavior? > > Bill > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 273-6785 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by Bill Schwab

All I did was download the dev image, but you are probably correct about the OB tools. This was tried, fairly controversial, and quickly rejected on Dolphin some time back. It's fine until things get ugly, and can then end up tossing work in the trash. Being able to go straight to a debugger is great, but I think it is a poor choice for a default. The opportunity for a recursive meltdown increases dramatically, not to mention the performance hit if several try to open "all at once." Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> cdrick65(a)gmail.com 12/20/08 12:52 PM >>> > I never implemented the pre-debug window, because I hate this extra > click that I have to do every single time I get a debugger. +1 I have never found it interesting... moreover I often forget to close it, resize, select end then full debugger to resize again... > The pre-debug window could certainly be added, but I don't see any > benefit in doing so. In my opinion the pre-debugger is a remnant of > Smalltalk-80, where there was no full debugger yet. > > Lukas > > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 5:52 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> From my side this is not something intentional so may be this a >> preference somewhere. >> >> On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Bill Schwab wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> One change I do not like is that errors bring up a debugger vs. >>> starting >>> with a notifier. Beyond a "we fear change" <g> reaction, it can get >> >> :) >> >>> >>> expensive if things are bad enough to create errors in rapid >>> succession. >>> Is there a preference I can set to get the previous behavior? >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> >>> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >>> University of Florida >>> Department of Anesthesiology >>> PO Box 100254 >>> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >>> >>> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >>> Tel: (352) 273-6785 >>> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- CÃ©drick _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

> I never implemented the pre-debug window, because I hate this extra > click that I have to do every single time I get a debugger. +1 I have never found it interesting... moreover I often forget to close it, resize, select end then full debugger to resize again... > The pre-debug window could certainly be added, but I don't see any > benefit in doing so. In my opinion the pre-debugger is a remnant of > Smalltalk-80, where there was no full debugger yet. > > Lukas > > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 5:52 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> From my side this is not something intentional so may be this a >> preference somewhere. >> >> On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Bill Schwab wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> One change I do not like is that errors bring up a debugger vs. >>> starting >>> with a notifier. Beyond a "we fear change" <g> reaction, it can get >> >> :) >> >>> >>> expensive if things are bad enough to create errors in rapid >>> succession. >>> Is there a preference I can set to get the previous behavior? >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> >>> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >>> University of Florida >>> Department of Anesthesiology >>> PO Box 100254 >>> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >>> >>> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >>> Tel: (352) 273-6785 >>> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- CÃ©drick

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by Lukas Renggli

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> wrote: > I don't quite understand. When I do "1 foo" I get a notifier window > (the small one) and not the full debugger. I guess Bill is using the Dev-Image of Damien with OB-Tools loaded. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by Adrian Lienhard

I don't quite understand. When I do "1 foo" I get a notifier window (the small one) and not the full debugger. Adrian On Dec 20, 2008, at 17:52 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > From my side this is not something intentional so may be this a > preference somewhere. > > On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Bill Schwab wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> One change I do not like is that errors bring up a debugger vs. >> starting >> with a notifier. Beyond a "we fear change" <g> reaction, it can get > > :) > >> >> expensive if things are bad enough to create errors in rapid >> succession. >> Is there a preference I can set to get the previous behavior? >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >> University of Florida >> Department of Anesthesiology >> PO Box 100254 >> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >> >> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >> Tel: (352) 273-6785 >> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by Lukas Renggli

Bill, I guess you are using the dev-image of Damien with the OB-Tools loaded. This package replaces the original debugger with one based on OmniBrowser. I never implemented the pre-debug window, because I hate this extra click that I have to do every single time I get a debugger. Also I observed that it encourages beginners to just close the debugger and look for the code in the normal browser, instead of fixing the problem right away. The pre-debug window could certainly be added, but I don't see any benefit in doing so. In my opinion the pre-debugger is a remnant of Smalltalk-80, where there was no full debugger yet. Lukas On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 5:52 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > From my side this is not something intentional so may be this a > preference somewhere. > > On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Bill Schwab wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> One change I do not like is that errors bring up a debugger vs. >> starting >> with a notifier. Beyond a "we fear change" <g> reaction, it can get > > :) > >> >> expensive if things are bad enough to create errors in rapid >> succession. >> Is there a preference I can set to get the previous behavior? >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >> University of Florida >> Department of Anesthesiology >> PO Box 100254 >> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >> >> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >> Tel: (352) 273-6785 >> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Dec. 20, 2008

[Pharo-project] Issue tracker & dev images

by Michael Roberts

folks, I was looking at issue 364 which is a bug in the pharo-dev image. Have we defined what the bug process is for the dev image vs the core? I wasn't sure. I.e are we happy to collate both on the one tracker; do we have appropriate types; is it not expected; etc. thanks Mike

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

From my side this is not something intentional so may be this a preference somewhere. On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Bill Schwab wrote: > Hello all, > > One change I do not like is that errors bring up a debugger vs. > starting > with a notifier. Beyond a "we fear change" <g> reaction, it can get :) > > expensive if things are bad enough to create errors in rapid > succession. > Is there a preference I can set to get the previous behavior? > > Bill > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 273-6785 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Dec. 20, 2008