December 2008 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Parsing problem

by Bill Schwab

Stef, Just out of curiosity (and to tell me how excited to get<g>), what will the state of the system after these changes? Will _ be allowed in method names? In class names? Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 12/21/08 4:55 AM >>> Hi gwenael Today I want to integrate your changes since I thought that you gave us the code of the methods but fixed and not just the selectors. Now this list is long and I do not want to do it by hand. Could publish a slice in the pharoInbox with all the code changed? If you cannot do it right now tell us how we can proceed. You can do two slices one for [:e and one for _ -> := Stef On Dec 18, 2008, at 5:05 PM, Gwenael Casaccio wrote: > Hi, > > I've discussed with Stephane and may be we can fix all the methods > that have : > _ instead of := > or some methods have [ : myArg ... ] instead of [ :myArg .... ] > > So we can use a parser that strictly check that we respect grammar. > There is in this mail an attach file that contains the list of the > classes and > methods that are not corrects. > > Cheers, > Gwenael Casaccio > > > > <parsingerrors.txt.zip>_______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 21, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by Bill Schwab

Lukas, You are correct to question "what is Pharo?" We cannot hope to ensure that everything anyone ever does with Pharo will work - those kinds of promises are made only during political campaigns :) But, note the recent discussion of package integrity. It should be as easy as possible to install anything one wants, but the things that Pharo invites the user to install should be solid. Certainly, the development tools should fall into that category. For example, I have a love/hate relationship with the RB, but I certainly hope to see it integrated into Pharo. But given a choice between a polished presentation of the RB commands and a stable system, I'll go for the stable system. We should have both. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> renggli(a)gmail.com 12/21/08 3:07 AM >>> > My understanding is that the OB tool set is the presumptive choice for > Pharo - unless I'm wrong, that makes this a Pharo related topic, if only > to reopen the choice in light of your position. I don't know which is the official Pharo image? There is a plain one without any extras loaded that the Pharo team uses for their releases, and then there is one with additional tools loaded by Damien that also contains OB-Tools. > Do as you want, but > Object Arts had this idea and very quickly decided the simpler notifier > had a very essential role. They left the option, activated the notifier > by default, and strongly warned against deactivating it. That was based > on being bitten by the kinds of concerns I have documented here. Don't get me wrong. Feel free to add this preference and the additional dialog, but don't expect me to do it: http://mail.wiresong.ca/pipermail/ob-dev/2008-August/000580.html Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 21, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Introducing Mars 0.1

by Lukas Renggli

> The menu appears correctly and I can successfully open Transcript and > Workspace. These two windows are fully functional too, however all the > other browsers don't work. Nothing happens when I try to open them. Is > there anything I am missing? Ahh, String class>>#space is missing in my image. Adding that and it seems to work ;-) This is super cool what you are doing. Thanks again! Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Dec. 21, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Introducing Mars 0.1

by Lukas Renggli

This is super cool! I want to use that for my daily work. I used the installer script to load Mars into the latest Pharo image. During the last step I got an error that the class OBCmdAddWorkingCopy cannot be found, but other than that it worked nicely. The menu appears correctly and I can successfully open Transcript and Workspace. These two windows are fully functional too, however all the other browsers don't work. Nothing happens when I try to open them. Is there anything I am missing? Cheers, Lukas On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 1:10 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi esteban > > Cooool. Sounds exciting. > What is the size of Mars? > How did you get multiple windows :) > Are call back from cocoa handled? > > Stef > > On Dec 21, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > >> Hi, I'm introducing Mars (just another world) >> >> Mars is a world for Squeak (and all it's forks) builded as an MVC on >> top of Cocoa (OSX framework) and OmniBrowser. >> For that reason, Mars just runs on OSX environments. >> While this project has some similariries with SqueakGTK and >> wxSqueak, it has big differences: >> 1) Mars is not a port of Cocoa for squeak, is just an MVC >> implementation who uses Cocoa. Why that "subtle" distinction? well, >> SqueakGTK is a full port of GTK+ library and for that reason, a >> little big a and a little too complex. I'm following simplicity as >> one of the project goals. >> 2) Mars is a plugin, and will run in any fork of squeak, and OB-Mars >> (Mars world) will run in any fork of squeak who can load >> OmniBrowser. This is a big difference with wxSqueak, wich is a fork >> it self (and requires an special VM) >> >> And of course, while both efforts (SqueakGTK and wxWidgets) are >> cool, none of them can be executed (and won't ever be) in small >> environments, like the iphone, which is one of my main objectives >> (using John's new VM and Edgar's work on minimal image building) >> >> Mars is MIT and can be downloaded following instructions from here: http://www.smallworks.com.ar/productos/Mars/Download >> For more details (history, blog, etc.), you can go to: http://www.smallworks.com.ar/productos/Mars >> >> DISCLAIMER: Right now, Mars is vere-very alpha stage (though it runs >> and can be used) and I would love any contribution in the form of: >> bug reports (there will be a lot now), feature requests, comments, >> and of course, code :) >> >> Cheers, >> Esteban >> >> -- >> "Querer es suscitar las paradojas" >> Camus. El mÃto de SÃsifo. >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Dec. 21, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Introducing Mars 0.1

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi esteban Cooool. Sounds exciting. What is the size of Mars? How did you get multiple windows :) Are call back from cocoa handled? Stef On Dec 21, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > Hi, I'm introducing Mars (just another world) > > Mars is a world for Squeak (and all it's forks) builded as an MVC on > top of Cocoa (OSX framework) and OmniBrowser. > For that reason, Mars just runs on OSX environments. > While this project has some similariries with SqueakGTK and > wxSqueak, it has big differences: > 1) Mars is not a port of Cocoa for squeak, is just an MVC > implementation who uses Cocoa. Why that "subtle" distinction? well, > SqueakGTK is a full port of GTK+ library and for that reason, a > little big a and a little too complex. I'm following simplicity as > one of the project goals. > 2) Mars is a plugin, and will run in any fork of squeak, and OB-Mars > (Mars world) will run in any fork of squeak who can load > OmniBrowser. This is a big difference with wxSqueak, wich is a fork > it self (and requires an special VM) > > And of course, while both efforts (SqueakGTK and wxWidgets) are > cool, none of them can be executed (and won't ever be) in small > environments, like the iphone, which is one of my main objectives > (using John's new VM and Edgar's work on minimal image building) > > Mars is MIT and can be downloaded following instructions from here: http://www.smallworks.com.ar/productos/Mars/Download > For more details (history, blog, etc.), you can go to: http://www.smallworks.com.ar/productos/Mars > > DISCLAIMER: Right now, Mars is vere-very alpha stage (though it runs > and can be used) and I would love any contribution in the form of: > bug reports (there will be a lot now), feature requests, comments, > and of course, code :) > > Cheers, > Esteban > > -- > "Querer es suscitar las paradojas" > Camus. El mÃto de SÃsifo. > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 21, 2008

[Pharo-project] Introducing Mars 0.1

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi, I'm introducing Mars (just another world) Mars is a world for Squeak (and all it's forks) builded as an MVC on top of Cocoa (OSX framework) and OmniBrowser. For that reason, Mars just runs on OSX environments. While this project has some similariries with SqueakGTK and wxSqueak, it has big differences: 1) Mars is not a port of Cocoa for squeak, is just an MVC implementation who uses Cocoa. Why that "subtle" distinction? well, SqueakGTK is a full port of GTK+ library and for that reason, a little big a and a little too complex. I'm following simplicity as one of the project goals. 2) Mars is a plugin, and will run in any fork of squeak, and OB-Mars (Mars world) will run in any fork of squeak who can load OmniBrowser. This is a big difference with wxSqueak, wich is a fork it self (and requires an special VM) And of course, while both efforts (SqueakGTK and wxWidgets) are cool, none of them can be executed (and won't ever be) in small environments, like the iphone, which is one of my main objectives (using John's new VM and Edgar's work on minimal image building) Mars is MIT and can be downloaded following instructions from here: http://www.smallworks.com.ar/productos/Mars/Download For more details (history, blog, etc.), you can go to: http://www.smallworks.com.ar/productos/Mars DISCLAIMER: Right now, Mars is vere-very alpha stage (though it runs and can be used) and I would love any contribution in the form of: bug reports (there will be a lot now), feature requests, comments, and of course, code :) Cheers, Esteban -- "Querer es suscitar las paradojas" Camus. El mÃto de SÃsifo.

Dec. 21, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Parsing problem

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi gwenael Today I want to integrate your changes since I thought that you gave us the code of the methods but fixed and not just the selectors. Now this list is long and I do not want to do it by hand. Could publish a slice in the pharoInbox with all the code changed? If you cannot do it right now tell us how we can proceed. You can do two slices one for [:e and one for _ -> := Stef On Dec 18, 2008, at 5:05 PM, Gwenael Casaccio wrote: > Hi, > > I've discussed with Stephane and may be we can fix all the methods > that have : > _ instead of := > or some methods have [ : myArg ... ] instead of [ :myArg .... ] > > So we can use a parser that strictly check that we respect grammar. > There is in this mail an attach file that contains the list of the > classes and > methods that are not corrects. > > Cheers, > Gwenael Casaccio > > > > <parsingerrors.txt.zip>_______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 21, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by Lukas Renggli

> My understanding is that the OB tool set is the presumptive choice for > Pharo - unless I'm wrong, that makes this a Pharo related topic, if only > to reopen the choice in light of your position. I don't know which is the official Pharo image? There is a plain one without any extras loaded that the Pharo team uses for their releases, and then there is one with additional tools loaded by Damien that also contains OB-Tools. > Do as you want, but > Object Arts had this idea and very quickly decided the simpler notifier > had a very essential role. They left the option, activated the notifier > by default, and strongly warned against deactivating it. That was based > on being bitten by the kinds of concerns I have documented here. Don't get me wrong. Feel free to add this preference and the additional dialog, but don't expect me to do it: http://mail.wiresong.ca/pipermail/ob-dev/2008-August/000580.html Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Dec. 21, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by Bill Schwab

Lukas, My understanding is that the OB tool set is the presumptive choice for Pharo - unless I'm wrong, that makes this a Pharo related topic, if only to reopen the choice in light of your position. Do as you want, but Object Arts had this idea and very quickly decided the simpler notifier had a very essential role. They left the option, activated the notifier by default, and strongly warned against deactivating it. That was based on being bitten by the kinds of concerns I have documented here. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> renggli(a)gmail.com 12/20/08 6:33 PM >>> Sorry, but I think nobody understands: The "issue" reported has absolutely nothing to do with Pharo, but with the extra package OB-Tools that Damien decided to include with his development images. There is no option to enable or disable the pre-debugger, and I won't add one either: <http://mail.wiresong.ca/pipermail/ob-dev/2008-August/000580.html>. If you don't like OB-Tools you either don't load the package or select a different toolset by evaluating "ToolSet askForDefault". Lukas On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 12:11 AM, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > That would be better than the current situation, but, among other > questions I'm probably not going to think of, it might be easy to decide > how many debuggers are open when the error occurs, but how many are > trying to open? Maybe a shared queue would suffice. Anyway, I get a > vote, and it's in favor of notifiers; if there is further a preference > to skip that step, that's fine by me. > > Bill > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 273-6785 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > >>>> pennell.david(a)gmail.com 12/20/08 4:52 PM >>> > So only open one and recognize eecursive UHE and do something clever. > Opening an infinite # of any kind of window sucks. > > -david > > On Dec 20, 2008, at 2:58 PM, "Bill Schwab" <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> > wrote: > >> Stef, >> >> Under ordinary circumstances, it's ok, but OA tried this and then >> quickly decided it was a bad idea. Imagine a budding recursive >> chain of >> errors; the extra load of opening the debugger can prevent a rescue >> that >> might be possible given a lightweight notifier. >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> >> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >> University of Florida >> Department of Anesthesiology >> PO Box 100254 >> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >> >> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >> Tel: (352) 273-6785 >> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >> >>>>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 12/20/08 2:37 PM >>> >> ahh now I understand because I'm often working on pharo core and I >> could not really understand >> what was the problem. >> >> Now indeed what is wrong with getting just the debugger? assuming the >> same error is raised? >> stef >> On Dec 20, 2008, at 6:51 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> >>> wrote: >>>> I don't quite understand. When I do "1 foo" I get a notifier window >>>> (the small one) and not the full debugger. >>> >>> I guess Bill is using the Dev-Image of Damien with OB-Tools loaded. >>> >>> Lukas >>> >>> -- >>> Lukas Renggli >>> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 21, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers

by Lukas Renggli

Sorry, but I think nobody understands: The "issue" reported has absolutely nothing to do with Pharo, but with the extra package OB-Tools that Damien decided to include with his development images. There is no option to enable or disable the pre-debugger, and I won't add one either: <http://mail.wiresong.ca/pipermail/ob-dev/2008-August/000580.html>. If you don't like OB-Tools you either don't load the package or select a different toolset by evaluating "ToolSet askForDefault". Lukas On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 12:11 AM, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > That would be better than the current situation, but, among other > questions I'm probably not going to think of, it might be easy to decide > how many debuggers are open when the error occurs, but how many are > trying to open? Maybe a shared queue would suffice. Anyway, I get a > vote, and it's in favor of notifiers; if there is further a preference > to skip that step, that's fine by me. > > Bill > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 273-6785 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > >>>> pennell.david(a)gmail.com 12/20/08 4:52 PM >>> > So only open one and recognize eecursive UHE and do something clever. > Opening an infinite # of any kind of window sucks. > > -david > > On Dec 20, 2008, at 2:58 PM, "Bill Schwab" <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> > wrote: > >> Stef, >> >> Under ordinary circumstances, it's ok, but OA tried this and then >> quickly decided it was a bad idea. Imagine a budding recursive >> chain of >> errors; the extra load of opening the debugger can prevent a rescue >> that >> might be possible given a lightweight notifier. >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> >> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >> University of Florida >> Department of Anesthesiology >> PO Box 100254 >> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >> >> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >> Tel: (352) 273-6785 >> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >> >>>>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 12/20/08 2:37 PM >>> >> ahh now I understand because I'm often working on pharo core and I >> could not really understand >> what was the problem. >> >> Now indeed what is wrong with getting just the debugger? assuming the >> same error is raised? >> stef >> On Dec 20, 2008, at 6:51 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> >>> wrote: >>>> I don't quite understand. When I do "1 foo" I get a notifier window >>>> (the small one) and not the full debugger. >>> >>> I guess Bill is using the Dev-Image of Damien with OB-Tools loaded. >>> >>> Lukas >>> >>> -- >>> Lukas Renggli >>> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Dec. 20, 2008