December 2008 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Universes and Installer?

by Keith Hodges

Bill Schwab wrote: > It makes a lot of sense to use MC, universes, etc. rather than re-write > them; no argument there. Would it help to roll ScriptLoader into > Installer? Installer works for all commonly used Squeak images, so you would need a ScriptLoader for each image that people are using. Coincidentally that is almost exactly the way Sake/Packages already works, except that it is aware of dependencies and can sort a list of items that it is asked to load in order to honour dependencies. The functions that ScriptLoader performs should really be rolled into the Packages-Library class PacakgesPharo01, for Sake/Packages which is a repository of "scripts" for loading things (most definitions simply supply a url rather than a script). Installer should be loaded using one of the maintained bootstrap methods, rather than via ScriptLoader. i.e LevelPlayingField. However if you dont want to do that the maintained bootstrap for installer only is: HTTPSocket httpFileIn: 'installer.pbwiki.com/f/Installer.st'. followed by Installer upgrade. Once you have Installer loaded, it can access squeakmap using the web interface, so it doesnt actually need SqueakMap to be loaded to begin bootstrapping other things e.g. Installer websqueakmap install: 'Whatever'. Finally you can put your scripts on a web page somewhere, or use installer.pbwiki.com to provide a simple script that works like so: Installer install: 'SomeScript'. > problem is complex, so must be the solution, but I think it would help > to have a single entry point even if it is merely a facade. > The single entry point for Installer is supposed to be LevelPlayingField, which ensures that Installer has everything it needs to load from Monticello repositories, mantis, urls, and websqueakmap. Followed by Sake/Packages which knows about everything else. (which is very easy to remove once you are done building). Keith

Dec. 22, 2008

[Pharo-project] Issues 142 & 144

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=142 http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=144

Dec. 22, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Universes and Installer?

by Bill Schwab

It makes a lot of sense to use MC, universes, etc. rather than re-write them; no argument there. Would it help to roll ScriptLoader into Installer? Installer _looks_ to me as though it tries to be a much-needed facade over the various options for sharing code. The problem is complex, so must be the solution, but I think it would help to have a single entry point even if it is merely a facade. Bill aka Confused Smalltalker :) Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> alexandre(a)bergel.eu 12/22/08 10:39 AM >>> Works. Thanks! Alexandre On 22 Dec 2008, at 12:26, Damien Cassou wrote: > On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 4:18 PM, Alexandre Bergel > <Alexandre.Bergel(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> If I execute "Installer universe" in a workspace, an error "Universes >> code not present" is signaled . >> Does this mean that only a subset of Installer is present in Pharo- >> Core? > > > No, you have the complete Installer package. However, Installer needs > some back-ends. Depending on what you want to, you will need > SqueakMap, Monticello, Sake and Universes. > >> On the Installer squeaksource repository there is a package >> Universes. >> It looks like to be the right candidate. However, some extensions on >> StringSocket need to be present. I do not know where to get them >> from. > > You could use the dev images but I guess you won't do it. So, just > execute: > > ScriptLoader new installingUniverse > >> http://www.squeaksource.com/Installer.html does not say much on this. >> Keith? Do I miss something? > > > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 22, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Introducing Mars 0.1

by Alexandre Bergel

>> What is the size of Mars? > Currently is very small, but I really don't know how to messure > this... > there is a method counter or something around? When I print this: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | marsClasses methods sizeOfAllMethods | marsClasses := Smalltalk allClasses select: [:cls | '*Mars*' match: cls category]. methods := marsClasses inject: Set new into: [:sum :cls | sum, cls methodDict values]. sizeOfAllMethods := methods inject: 0 into: [:sum :cm | sum + cm size]. { marsClasses size . methods size . sizeOfAllMethods } -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= I have: #(76 661 24663) The weight of all the mars methods is 24Kb. I do not know what is the impact on the overall pharo image although (anyone has an idea?). The size of bundle is 92Kb according to the mac finder. >> How did you get multiple windows :) > They are just cocoa windows, created each time one is needed > >> Are call back from cocoa handled? doing a print on "10 + 20" prints "nil" It looks really good! Cheers, Alexandre >> > > >> >> Stef >> >> On Dec 21, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> >>> Hi, I'm introducing Mars (just another world) >>> >>> Mars is a world for Squeak (and all it's forks) builded as an MVC on >> >>> top of Cocoa (OSX framework) and OmniBrowser. >>> For that reason, Mars just runs on OSX environments. >>> While this project has some similariries with SqueakGTK and >> >>> wxSqueak, it has big differences: >>> 1) Mars is not a port of Cocoa for squeak, is just an MVC >> >>> implementation who uses Cocoa. Why that "subtle" distinction? well, >> >>> SqueakGTK is a full port of GTK+ library and for that reason, a >> >>> little big a and a little too complex. I'm following simplicity as >> >>> one of the project goals. >>> 2) Mars is a plugin, and will run in any fork of squeak, and OB-Mars >> >>> (Mars world) will run in any fork of squeak who can load >> >>> OmniBrowser. This is a big difference with wxSqueak, wich is a fork >> >>> it self (and requires an special VM) >>> >>> And of course, while both efforts (SqueakGTK and wxWidgets) are >> >>> cool, none of them can be executed (and won't ever be) in small >> >>> environments, like the iphone, which is one of my main objectives >> >>> (using John's new VM and Edgar's work on minimal image building) >>> >>> Mars is MIT and can be downloaded following instructions from >>> here: http: >> //www.smallworks.com.ar/productos/Mars/Download >>> For more details (history, blog, etc.), you can go to: http://www.smallwo >> rks.com.ar/productos/Mars >>> >>> DISCLAIMER: Right now, Mars is vere-very alpha stage (though it runs >> >>> and can be used) and I would love any contribution in the form of: >> >>> bug reports (there will be a lot now), feature requests, comments, >> >>> and of course, code :) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Esteban >>> >>> -- >> >>> "Querer es suscitar las paradojas" >>> Camus. El mÃto de SÃsifo. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 22, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Universes and Installer?

by Alexandre Bergel

Works. Thanks! Alexandre On 22 Dec 2008, at 12:26, Damien Cassou wrote: > On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 4:18 PM, Alexandre Bergel > <Alexandre.Bergel(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> If I execute "Installer universe" in a workspace, an error "Universes >> code not present" is signaled . >> Does this mean that only a subset of Installer is present in Pharo- >> Core? > > > No, you have the complete Installer package. However, Installer needs > some back-ends. Depending on what you want to, you will need > SqueakMap, Monticello, Sake and Universes. > >> On the Installer squeaksource repository there is a package >> Universes. >> It looks like to be the right candidate. However, some extensions on >> StringSocket need to be present. I do not know where to get them >> from. > > You could use the dev images but I guess you won't do it. So, just > execute: > > ScriptLoader new installingUniverse > >> http://www.squeaksource.com/Installer.html does not say much on this. >> Keith? Do I miss something? > > > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 22, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Universes and Installer?

by Damien Cassou

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 4:18 PM, Alexandre Bergel <Alexandre.Bergel(a)inria.fr> wrote: > If I execute "Installer universe" in a workspace, an error "Universes > code not present" is signaled . > Does this mean that only a subset of Installer is present in Pharo-Core? No, you have the complete Installer package. However, Installer needs some back-ends. Depending on what you want to, you will need SqueakMap, Monticello, Sake and Universes. > On the Installer squeaksource repository there is a package Universes. > It looks like to be the right candidate. However, some extensions on > StringSocket need to be present. I do not know where to get them from. You could use the dev images but I guess you won't do it. So, just execute: ScriptLoader new installingUniverse > http://www.squeaksource.com/Installer.html does not say much on this. > Keith? Do I miss something? -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

Dec. 22, 2008

[Pharo-project] Universes and Installer?

by Alexandre Bergel

Dear List, If I execute "Installer universe" in a workspace, an error "Universes code not present" is signaled . Does this mean that only a subset of Installer is present in Pharo-Core? On the Installer squeaksource repository there is a package Universes. It looks like to be the right candidate. However, some extensions on StringSocket need to be present. I do not know where to get them from. http://www.squeaksource.com/Installer.html does not say much on this. Keith? Do I miss something? Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 22, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Inclusion of OB-Tools inside Pharo

by Bill Schwab

Stef, One nice thing about the new browser is the RB integration. Given my general aversion to having it rewrite my code (showing no respect at all for the dated comments therein), I'm an unlikely advocate. Still, I use the RB for up/down refactorings (no rewrites needed), and will sometimes turn it loose on new code that has not had time to accumulate comments of value. Others would consider its absence a showstopper. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 12/22/08 7:05 AM >>> I think that we should pay attention of the ratio of effort and number of people participating. My take would be to not include tools if they are not complete and at the same time may be create a group of people working on an specific issue for the next milestone. In the long run I would like to have less little bug fixes vs main improvements even if the little fixes are important. one of the question is how can we make significant progress as an open source project. Stef On Dec 22, 2008, at 11:30 AM, Michael Roberts wrote: > I'm interested at least in a discussion on the OB debugger. This is > because > > 1) there are definitely some bugs in the core debugger. Is it worth > trying to fix them? I think yes, but I'm not sure I have the skills > to identify and fix them. I just know from using the core debugger it > sure does some strange things. > 2) The core debugger is missing features: stack variables, arguments, > breakpoints. How hard is it to modify the core one? > 3) do we have enough volunteer effort to maintain two debuggers? I'm > not sure we do. > > I have only briefly used the ob debugger and I got a bit confused with > part of the UI so i'll need to look at it some more. What are folks > thoughts on this key part of functionality? > > Then more generally i'm not sure it makes sense to have different > tools in the core vs the dev image. I have to admit to not fully > understanding the 1.0 release plan but looking fwds to say 2.0, 3.0 > there would be benefit from pushing OB + tools into the core and just > maintaining a single high quality set of tools across all variant > images? > > cheers, > > Mike > > On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com > > wrote: >> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Bill Schwab >> <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: >>> Sounds good. And in that case (OB Tools at the end of the list), >>> I urge >>> serious attention to having a notifier. Learning from history, >>> and all >>> that. >> >> Hi Bill, >> >> I decided to load OB-Tools (a reimplementation of some tools using >> the >> ob framework) inside the pharo-dev images. I put OB-Tools inside the >> list of packages that will be part of the official Pharo >> distribution. >> This was a mistake because no discussion happened about this package >> at all on this mailing list. I've just moved OB-Tools to the list of >> pending packages. Now, we have to discuss (in this new thread): >> >> - Do we want an OB-based version of the tools inside Pharo? >> - Do we want all tools implemented by Lukas or just some of them? >> - What features are missing? >> - What are the bugs? >> - Who maintains this package? >> >> -- >> Damien Cassou >> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 22, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Introducing Mars 0.1

by Esteban Lorenzano

On 2008-12-21 10:22:03 -0200, "Lukas Renggli" <renggli(a)gmail.com> said: >> The menu appears correctly and I can successfully open Transcript and >> Workspace. These two windows are fully functional too, however all the >> other browsers don't work. Nothing happens when I try to open them. Is >> there anything I am missing? > > Ahh, String class>>#space is missing in my image. Adding that and it > seems to work ;-) Well, Mars shouldn't be using String class>>#space... maybe something on OB? > > This is super cool what you are doing. Thanks again! Thanks again, I'm happy that you want to use something I'm doing... usually is the other way: I use a LOT of your stuff :D Cheers, Esteban > > Lukas

Dec. 22, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Introducing Mars 0.1

by Esteban Lorenzano

On 2008-12-21 10:18:46 -0200, "Lukas Renggli" <renggli(a)gmail.com> said: > This is super cool! I want to use that for my daily work. Thanks :) I hope it works for daily work very soon (in fact I started the project because I wanted to use something like this for work) Currentlly is a little buggy, but I will stabilize it as my "summer project" (here is summer, and a very hot summer :) ) > > I used the installer script to load Mars into the latest Pharo image. > During the last step I got an error that the class OBCmdAddWorkingCopy > cannot be found, but other than that it worked nicely. Strange... but OBCmdAddWorkingCopy is part of OB-Enhancements, and is changing very fast... I stopped support for OBPackageBrowser for a moment because it was changing faster that I can follow it. I hope to face OB-Enhancements support soon, though. Btw, it should work now, but OBTreeColumn from OBPackageBrowser (and it's OB-Mars representation) was very slow, because of all the introspection of monticello packages needed. Cheers, Esteban > > The menu appears correctly and I can successfully open Transcript and > Workspace. These two windows are fully functional too, however all the > other browsers don't work. Nothing happens when I try to open them. Is > there anything I am missing? > > Cheers, > Lukas > > > On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 1:10 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> Hi esteban >> >> Cooool. Sounds exciting. >> What is the size of Mars? >> How did you get multiple windows :) >> Are call back from cocoa handled? >> >> Stef >> >> On Dec 21, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> >>> Hi, I'm introducing Mars (just another world) >>> >>> Mars is a world for Squeak (and all it's forks) builded as an MVC on >>> top of Cocoa (OSX framework) and OmniBrowser. >>> For that reason, Mars just runs on OSX environments. >>> While this project has some similariries with SqueakGTK and >>> wxSqueak, it has big differences: >>> 1) Mars is not a port of Cocoa for squeak, is just an MVC >>> implementation who uses Cocoa. Why that "subtle" distinction? well, >>> SqueakGTK is a full port of GTK+ library and for that reason, a >>> little big a and a little too complex. I'm following simplicity as >>> one of the project goals. >>> 2) Mars is a plugin, and will run in any fork of squeak, and OB-Mars >>> (Mars world) will run in any fork of squeak who can load >>> OmniBrowser. This is a big difference with wxSqueak, wich is a fork >>> it self (and requires an special VM) >>> >>> And of course, while both efforts (SqueakGTK and wxWidgets) are >>> cool, none of them can be executed (and won't ever be) in small >>> environments, like the iphone, which is one of my main objectives >>> (using John's new VM and Edgar's work on minimal image building) >>> >>> Mars is MIT and can be downloaded following instructions from here: http > ://www.smallworks.com.ar/productos/Mars/Download >>> For more details (history, blog, etc.), you can go to: http://www.smallw > orks.com.ar/productos/Mars >>> >>> DISCLAIMER: Right now, Mars is vere-very alpha stage (though it runs >>> and can be used) and I would love any contribution in the form of: >>> bug reports (there will be a lot now), feature requests, comments, >>> and of course, code :) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Esteban >>> >>> -- >>> "Querer es suscitar las paradojas" >>> Camus. El mÃto de SÃsifo. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Dec. 22, 2008